Player improvement under Capel

[stoops4pres]

Would you have liked Capel keeping, Early, Neismith, Juan, etc...?

Not sure why you're asking me this again. Thought I made it clear that I didn't want them to stick around since they weren't showing decorous behavior while on the team.

If I didn't make it clear, then let me clarify: I don't have a problem with Capel kicking these guys off. The problem is that he shouldn't be signing these type of guys in the first place.

Im sure they were somewhat model citizens in HS, but we both know TONS of kids, athletes or not, CHANGE when they leave their home for the first time! Kids who were good christian church goers, turn into the party going, sleeping around etc... you know where im going with that!

I see what you are saying. But like I said, its one thing to have one or two instances (EVERY program has that problem), but not deal with the rates that Capel has had to deal with over the last 4 or 5 seasons. That clearly shows something wasn't right when evaluating the character aspect of the recruits. And that to me is the biggest problem Capel needs to change if he wants to get the program on the right track.

 

[seniorsooner]

The bottom line is we just need to wait. We need to wait to see what kind of progress we make this year, and then we need to wait to see how big of a jump we make next year. Right now my feeling is it's tourney or bust for Capel next year.

 

[stoops4pres]

The bottom line is we just need to wait. We need to wait to see what kind of progress we make this year, and then we need to wait to see how big of a jump we make next year. Right now my feeling is it's tourney or bust for Capel next year.

Agreed.

 

[CoachTalk]

Not sure why you're asking me this again. Thought I made it clear that I didn't want them to stick around since they weren't showing decorous behavior while on the team.

If I didn't make it clear, then let me clarify: I don't have a problem with Capel kicking these guys off. The problem is that he shouldn't be signing these type of guys in the first place.



I see what you are saying. But like I said, its one thing to have one or two instances (EVERY program has that problem), but not deal with the rates that Capel has had to deal with over the last 4 or 5 seasons. That clearly shows something wasn't right when evaluating the character aspect of the recruits. And that to me is the biggest problem Capel needs to change if he wants to get the program on the right track.

Sometimes you have to take a chance. Guess these didnt work out!

 

[CoachTalk]

Agreed.

I think we all agree on this! But the bashing never stops with you guys... Try supporting!

 

[schoonerdriver]

Sometimes you have to take a chance. Guess these didnt work out!

Does it bother you that he has no regrets and would recruit some of these kids again? It does me. Making mistakes is one thing, but not learning from those mistakes is a whole new ball game.

 

[schoonerdriver]

I think we all agree on this! But the bashing never stops with you guys... Try supporting!

I agree, if Capel makes until the end of next season. I give support every game from LS6.

 

[bocabull]

Does it bother you that he has no regrets and would recruit some of these kids again? It does me. Making mistakes is one thing, but not learning from those mistakes is a whole new ball game.

Capel did not make any mistakes. The mistakes were made by TMG, Tiny and WW. They should all be at OU right now working on their games.

 

[stoops4pres]

But the bashing never stops with you guys... Try supporting!

Sorry, but I don't think I have been bashing Capel, at all.

Pretty sure I gave him credit for the improvement seen under his players, and have stuck up for him concerning this topic against a few posters. How is that bashing him?

I even said I want him to stay until after next season to see whether or not he can get this turned around.

Noting that Capel has made some questionable judgements of character in the past is by no means bashing him. It is what it is. I think he has learned his lesson though, and hopefully the lesson learned can help him and the program.

 

[schoonerdriver]

Capel did not make any mistakes. The mistakes were made by TMG, Tiny and WW. They should all be at OU right now working on their games.

Did the players screw up? Yes, but Capel did as well. Would Capel not talk to them about what their intentions or aspirations might be? If UNC cannot maintain their program with 1 and 2 year players, why would Capel expect that he could do it at OU? I think it was an arogant statement for Capel to make considering the current state of the program.

 

[thebigabd]

Even after the tough breaks Capel has had to endure-BOCA

Hysterical.

The Capel can't win without Blake argument is put forth by trolls.

I think it was put forth by his under .500 record, 13 win season, and 3 seasons (most likely) where his team doesnt go to any post-season without Blake. Thats just my guess, though.

You could be right. It might not be based in facts, reality, etc. It may just be some troll who came along and made the whole thing up.

 

[OUhoops11]

Hysterical.



I think it was put forth by his under .500 record, 13 win season, and 3 seasons (most likely) where his team doesnt go to any post-season without Blake. Thats just my guess, though.

You could be right. It might not be based in facts, reality, etc. It may just be some troll who came along and made the whole thing up.

 

[boksooner]

Hysterical.



I think it was put forth by his under .500 record, 13 win season, and 3 seasons (most likely) where his team doesnt go to any post-season without Blake. Thats just my guess, though.

You could be right. It might not be based in facts, reality, etc. It may just be some troll who came along and made the whole thing up.

Correlation does not imply causation. There is not a large enough sample size to determine the validity of that statement.

A more appropriate statement would be that Capel has not won without Blake at OU. He won plenty of games at VCU without Blake.

Capel has coached 8 years. He has gone to the postseason 4 times. He has only had one losing record.

It is an indisputable fact that Capel has not won at OU without BG, but it cannot be stated (yet) with any validity that Capel cannot win without BG.

 

[thebigabd]

Correlation does not imply causation. There is not a large enough sample size to determine the validity of that statement.

A more appropriate statement would be that Capel has not won without Blake at OU. He won plenty of games at VCU without Blake.

Capel has coached 8 years. He has gone to the postseason 4 times. He has only had one losing record.

It is an indisputable fact that Capel has not won at OU without BG, but it cannot be stated (yet) with any validity that Capel cannot win without BG.

I accept your reasoning.

However, your premise implies that we would never know (thus never be in a position to criticize) if OU could win without BG, as there is always a chance he could win the next season. Therefore, the argument is not whether he CAN win without Blake, but whether he HAS won without Blake. That is the discussion we are having now, and will continue to be the source of his criticism until he proves otherwise.

As for sample size. 3/5 years is fairly strong in the world of coaching these days. But, there are some promising players coming in next season so perhaps another year would allow fans, administration, etc to give him the most fair chance possible.

It is important to keep in mind that OU should have the following lineup:

PG: Tommy Mason-Griffin (could have been a great college player)
SG: Willie Warren (could have been a great college player)
SF: Cade Davis (the ultimate role player)
PF: Andrew Fitzgerald (proving to be a very good college player)
C: Tiny Gallon (could have been a great college player)

If those guys had their heads on straight, OU could be in a position to be awesome. Not just good, but awesome.

 

[Tony]

Correlation does not imply causation. There is not a large enough sample size to determine the validity of that statement.

A more appropriate statement would be that Capel has not won without Blake at OU. He won plenty of games at VCU without Blake.

Capel has coached 8 years. He has gone to the postseason 4 times. He has only had one losing record.

It is an indisputable fact that Capel has not won at OU without BG, but it cannot be stated (yet) with any validity that Capel cannot win without BG.

Where have you been, boksooner?

 

[Sam]

I accept your reasoning.

However, your premise implies that we would never know (thus never be in a position to criticize) if OU could win without BG, as there is always a chance he could win the next season. Therefore, the argument is not whether he CAN win without Blake, but whether he HAS won without Blake. That is the discussion we are having now, and will continue to be the source of his criticism until he proves otherwise.

As for sample size. 3/5 years is fairly strong in the world of coaching these days. But, there are some promising players coming in next season so perhaps another year would allow fans, administration, etc to give him the most fair chance possible.

It is important to keep in mind that OU should have the following lineup:

PG: Tommy Mason-Griffin (could have been a great college player)
SG: Willie Warren (could have been a great college player)
SF: Cade Davis (the ultimate role player)
PF: Andrew Fitzgerald (proving to be a very good college player)
C: Tiny Gallon (could have been a great college player)

If those guys had their heads on straight, OU could be in a position to be awesome. Not just good, but awesome.

I don't think there was any chance Willie would be here next year, he was a 2 and done type all the way. Just like Blake was and Tiny should've been. Still even with Cam or Pledger in for him in the backcourt that time still has a ton of potential with the right potential. I think TMG's inability to stay in school is what frustrates me the most. That guy would've been better than Collins as an individual players over 4 years, just a ton of offensive talent.

Well thats enough wishful thinking for now for me.

 

[schoonerdriver]

Correlation does not imply causation. There is not a large enough sample size to determine the validity of that statement.

A more appropriate statement would be that Capel has not won without Blake at OU. He won plenty of games at VCU without Blake.

Capel has coached 8 years. He has gone to the postseason 4 times. He has only had one losing record.

It is an indisputable fact that Capel has not won at OU without BG, but it cannot be stated (yet) with any validity that Capel cannot win without BG.

As with the discussion about Capel's U18 coaching experience, I am not sure why we want to include his tenure at VCU in this discussion. VCU plays in the Colonial Athletic Association and winning in the CAA is not the same as winning in the Big 12. With 2 years of Blake, Capel is still 2 games below .500 in conference play and his record probably won't get any better after this year. Going to the postseason 4 times out of 8 years, should not be acceptable for a school who had the longest postseason streak in the nation until Capel's arrival (I am not saying it was his fault). He also coached the worst season of OU basketball in nearly 30 years.

 

[stoops4pres]

I don't think there was any chance Willie would be here next year, he was a 2 and done type all the way.

You're exactly right. After WW signed with OU Capel even stated that he expected WW to be in the league after two seasons.

 

[stoops4pres]

Nothing to contribute, except for that I LOVE your photo posted.

Brilliant. :clap :clap

 

[afaSooner]

Capel has had 2 successful seasons. Both were with Blake. Currently this program is not headed up. Anyone who says differently just isn't paying attention. Whether or not its bad luck or bad coaching, it is still ultimately Capel's responsibility.

2006-07 Oklahoma 16 15 .516 6 10 .375
2007-08 Oklahoma 23 12 .657 9 7 .563
2008-09 Oklahoma 30 6 .833 12 4 .750
2009-10 Oklahoma 13 18 .419 4 12 .250


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfiY2nbV9RI&feature=related

I think some of you have just made your minds up but IMO a bit too early. But let me ask you this... Do you see where it says 2006-07? Do you realize OU's recruiting class that year was decimated by recruits opting out of their LOI? This left Capel scrambling just to get in on anyone that late in the game. Is that one of Capel's 4 yrs you count as him not winning without Blake? Ok so REALLY he only has ONE season in which you can in all seriousness blast away at Capel because Capel's first year had other variables playing against him than just not having Blake. Last year, his other year without Blake, was a complete debacle there's no denying that but it happens to programs and coaches even BIGGER than OU so why not OU? Look at North Carolina and other programs that haven't made the tourney with down years. What the hell makes us think it should never happen at OU's basketball program?

That's fine if everyone wants to make up their minds based on ONE season (last year), but there's proof last season was more of a fluke than the standard and if you hadn't already made up your minds you might notice. As far as Capel's players and their improvement goes, clearly guys get better and not the other way around. All you have to do is watch the games to see that.