Rank the Big 12 --- May 22nd

thebigabd

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1.) Kansas
2.) Texas
3.) Kansas State
4.) Texas A&M
5.) Oklahoma State
6.) Oklahoma
7.) Iowa State
8.) Missouri
9.) Colorado
10.) Baylor
11.) Texas Tech
12.) Nebraska
 
KU
Texas
OU
A+M
OSU
KSU
Missouri
ISU
Baylor
Tech
Colorado
Nebraska
 
KU
Texas
OU
OSU
KSU
A&M
who cares after that
 
ABD,

When did you hop off the Doc Sadler bandwagon?
 
1.) Kansas
2.) Texas
3.) Missouri
4.) Kansas State
5.) Oklahoma
6.) Oklahoma State
7.) Texas A&M
8.) Nebraska
9.) Iowa State
10.) Baylor
11.) Texas Tech
12.) Colorado
 
1.) Kansas
2.) Texas
3.) Kansas State
4.) Oklahoma State
5.) Texas A&M
6.) Oklahoma
7.) Iowa State
8.) Missouri
9.) Baylor
10.) Colorado
11.) Texas Tech
12.) Nebraska
 
Kansas
Texas
OU
KSU
OSU
A&M
-------
Missouri
Baylor
Iowa St
Nebraska
Colorado
Tech
 
KU
UT
A&M
KSU
OU
ISU
BU
MU
CU
OSU
Tech
NU

gonna be good. the bottom of the league is much improved. and there's more depth at the top.
 
We have finished behind OSU only once since the beginning of Big 12 play, and thats not going to chance this year. I will give KSU the early nod over us now that we lost Pattillo (even though I think losing Fred Brown is going to hurt them).

Abd,

The fact that you have Colorado over Baylor is sorta amazing....

Sys,

There is no way that OSU finishes that low unless Anderson and Moses leave the team. I like your thinking though! :)

KU
Tex
KSU
OU
A&M
OSU
Baylor
Mizzou
ISU
Tech
Colo
Nub
 
Sys, there is no way that OSU finishes that low unless Anderson and Moses leave the team.)

i probably did put them too low. but, who in the south are they more talented than? it's gonna be a brutal league, and some good teams are going to lose a lot of games.
 
I just really never think much of Baylor. They don't defend.
 
I just really never think much of Baylor. They don't defend.

Oh believe me, I don't think much of them either. I just think they are better than teams like Colorado. They will finish amazingly low for the amount of talent and depth on that roster.
 
you all are going to eat your words :) Baylor's defensive problems have been personnel problems. Scott Drew knows how to teach defense. They started the year last year playing very good defense in beating Arizona State, Providence and Washington State. When conference started, Drew made a mistake in not switching to a 2-3 zone soon enough. The 2-3 zone was a key part of their post season success in the big 12 tourney and NIT.

Now Drew has a lot options defensively. He has length at every position except Tweety Carter at PG. He has an all big 10 first team defender transfer in Udoh. Udoh will automatically make Baylor a much better defensive team because he is an athletic 6'10" guy with long arms. The guy averaged 10 rebounds and 3 blocks per game for Michigan as a sophomore. Nolan Dennis, Lace Dunn, Quincy Acy, AJ Walton and Anthony Jones all have the potential to be great defenders.

If Baylor's defense sucks next year, I will gladly eat crow on this board. But I think you will be surprised at how all of sudden Drew has "learned" to coach defense with the personnel that he has now.

My prediction for big 12 finish:

1. Kansas
2. UT
3. OU
4. A&M
5. Baylor
6. Kansas St
7. OSU
8. Missouri
9. ISU
10. Colorado
11. Nebraska
12. Texas Tech

I think the Big 12 will get 7 in the dance next year. Should be the best league from top to bottom next year.
 
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dfw, your assertion makes no sense. if baylor was playing good defense to start the year (and i agree, they were, or at least better defense than they've ever played under drew before or since), then how could it have been a personnel problem that caused them to play horrible defense for most of the big 12 (and during drew's previous years)?

i have no doubt drew knows how to teach defense. bball is a pretty simple game and most reasonably intelligent men who've been involved with the sport their entire life pretty much know all there is to know. i'm sure his players know how to defend, an defensive effort equivalent to most other big 12 teams just isn't demanded of them.
 
i have no doubt drew knows how to teach defense. bball is a pretty simple game and most reasonably intelligent men who've been involved with the sport their entire life pretty much know all there is to know. i'm sure his players know how to defend, an defensive effort equivalent to most other big 12 teams just isn't demanded of them.

Sys do you feel that is Frank Martin's problem at KSU as well? He just doesn't demand them to play defense or is it personnel? I thought that was the downfall of the Beasley/Walker team. Didn't play a lick of defense. Had the talent to make it to the FF4.
 
no. i think you are more or less delusional when it comes to ksu and mu.
 
Sys do you feel that is Frank Martin's problem at KSU as well? He just doesn't demand them to play defense or is it personnel? I thought that was the downfall of the Beasley/Walker team. Didn't play a lick of defense. Had the talent to make it to the FF4.

Cheno- you hit the nail on the head. Baylor had good kids off the court. But Jerrells, Rogers and Dugat started thinking too much about their pro potential and for whatever reason they didn't lay it all on the floor like you would want to see. I see that as the primary reason Baylor was not a good defensive team in conference play.

Martin had the same issue with Beasley and Walker as you rightly pointed out. But a year later with different personnel Kansas State was a terrific defensive team. I really think Baylor will be similar to KSU in that regard. If I were a Baylor coach for next year, I would worry more about where the offense will come from. Dunn and Carter are proven double figure scorers but no one else on that team is. Lots of potential for good offense. But you never know what will happen when the lights come on.

The 2nd issue with Baylor is that their personnel was better suited for a 2-3 zone than hard nosed man to man. Drew prefers the man to man. But when you look at their roster you can see why zone would be a better choice. Two bigs that can clog up the middle but are too slow to switch on picks or get out to jump shooters (Diene/Lomers). Short but quick guards who are exposed in the post on pick and roll switches (Jerrells, Dugat, Carter). Talented young players who are long but easily fooled on good pick and roll schemes (Acy/Jones). The man to man worked well in non conference because they were simply more athletic than Providence, Arizona State and Wash State.

They dropped games to teams that were as athletic as them- Wake Forest and South Carolina. When conference hit, they were not superior athletically to at least half the teams and the man to man defense left them exposed.

Drew changed that heading into postseason by switching to an active 2-3 zone. And all of sudden they are one of the hottest teams in the country going 7-2 with wins over Neb, Kansas, Texas, Georgetown, Va Tech, Auburn and San Diego State.
 
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