Rotation -- Last year and Next Year

[Boomer-D]

What I think is moronic is that people with no legit rebuttle, just make up things that I said. It happens all the time.

I never said he wasn't a good 3 pt. shooter. I have said that he was a good shooter from all ranges. It is his severe and lengthy list of shortcomings in most all other areas that I point out.

Lon Kruger is much higher on him than you are....I'll take Lon's opinion every day and twice on Sundays.

 

[AdaSooner]

I'm pretty sure Pledger must have effed this clown's wife or something.

sperry, no matter what you think of garyeb2, a remark like this has no place on this board. Since when is it okay to insult another poster by bringing his wife or any member of the family into the debate? If you're half the man I believe you are, you'll apologize.

 

[garyeb2]

Lon Kruger is much higher on him than you are....I'll take Lon's opinion every day and twice on Sundays.

I would too. I would defer to Kruger on anything about basketball. He is an expert.

Let's see if I can recall some of the things Kruger has said about Pledger.
1. He has a chance to be a very good shooter.
2. He needs to work harder to get open.
3. He has a big body and he needs to use it to rebound and defend.

About the team.
1. Willing to work hard
2. Needs to be tougher more physical.
3. Need to learn to win.
None of the players have been exempted from these evaluations.

Kruger hasn't gone out of his way to brag up any of the players. Nor has he gone out of his way to bash any of them. He did gush alittle over M'Baye on the radio today.


So, I'm with you. As soon as Kruger starts describing him like the posters, I'll be on board.

 

[sperry]

sperry, no matter what you think of garyeb2, a remark like this has no place on this board. Since when is it okay to insult another poster by bringing his wife or any member of the family into the debate? If you're half the man I believe you are, you'll apologize.

I was clearly not suggesting that Gary's wife (if such a person exists) or Stephen Pledger would do such a thing. Merely poking fun at the fact that Gary's constant criticisms of Pledger rise to the point of irrationality such that one who didn't know any better may believe he had a personal vendetta against Stephen for reasons beyond his imagined shortcomings on a basketball court.



I will try to be less crude in the future though.

 

[AdaSooner]

I was clearly not suggesting that Gary's wife (if such a person exists) or Stephen Pledger would do such a thing. Merely poking fun at the fact that Gary's constant criticisms of Pledger rise to the point of irrationality such that one who didn't know any better may believe he had a personal vendetta against Stephen for reasons beyond his imagined shortcomings on a basketball court.



I will try to be less crude in the future though.

I knew what you were saying. You just took the insult too far, which was not like you at all. Thanks for the polite response!

 

[Boomer-D]

I would too. I would defer to Kruger on anything about basketball. He is an expert.

Let's see if I can recall some of the things Kruger has said about Pledger.
1. He has a chance to be a very good shooter.
2. He needs to work harder to get open.
3. He has a big body and he needs to use it to rebound and defend.

About the team.
1. Willing to work hard
2. Needs to be tougher more physical.
3. Need to learn to win.
None of the players have been exempted from these evaluations.

Kruger hasn't gone out of his way to brag up any of the players. Nor has he gone out of his way to bash any of them. He did gush alittle over M'Baye on the radio today.


So, I'm with you. As soon as Kruger starts describing him like the posters, I'll be on board.

gary this is a no spin zone.....what's the saying? "you can make statistics say what ever you want them too" Pledger is an automatic starter and Kruger and his wife's nephew's daughter would all agree that is true.

 

[garyeb2]

gary this is a no spin zone.....what's the saying? "you can make statistics say what ever you want them too" Pledger is an automatic starter and Kruger and his wife's nephew's daughter would all agree that is true.

We can do this all night. Firstly, I didn't quote any statistics. Now did I. Secondly, I'm pretty sure Kruger would say no such thing.

After 3 losing seasons and another miserable conference record, last season's team members are being told that none of them have anything locked up and the recruits are being told that they have an equal shot to play. And he means it. To deny that reality is veiwing the situation from somewhere off in the ozone.

If Pledger starts next season and plays big minutes, he will have earned it by beating out a couple of quality recruits. Good for him. But, it is something that he has never done before. And that is not spinning anything.

 

[vbdad]

Gary is correct the best players will start next year. Pledger is the best shooter but the rest of his game is weak. Coach Kruger is more aware of this than any of us. He will have a bunch of competition from Hield and Hornbeak next year. Those two guys will also be in the mix at the 3.
M'Baye will probably lead us in minutes next year. He is as talented or more than any player on the team. His attitude is the best. CJ maximized his talent this year and was a positive contributer this year. He is no where near the player M'Baye is however. Lon was raving about him on the radio today. The most important comment was when he talked about his passion for the game.

Rotation expectations

Inside- Osby, Fitz and M'Baye with Arent playing a CJ role as needed
Wing-M'Baye,Clark, Pledger, Hield
Point-Grooms,Cousins
Hornbeak will get a chance to be on the wing or the point guard position. Depending on his skill set and what the team needs.
Neal won't be in the rotation.

This puts eight for sure in the rotation and Hornbeak makes nine(not saying he is the ninth) who should play every game. Arent gives you inside depth and hopefully good minutes a few games next year.

I could see M'Baye, Osby, Hield, Cousins and Hornbeak on the court at the same time.

 

[DenverSooner]

OU now has options. Last season there were simply no options. Grooms, Blair and Pledger had to play. Grooms and Pledger had to combine for about 65 minutes per game. Next season if Kruger is upset with Grooms or Pledger he has the option of sitting them for a while. I think that will make the team better. I don't expect either guy to sit a lot but simply having the option makes OU better.

If one of them does sit a lot, I think that is good because it means one of the new players is pretty good.

 

[Ham]

Do you think kids are recruited by telling them "son, I think you have a lot of work to do and will likely sit on the bench lucky to see 5 minutes a game your first season"?

I suspect coaches offere every kid the opportunity to take the ball, be the primary scorer etc.

I think if a HS kid played at the same HS as Ben Gordon, and was also being recruited by Jim Calhoun, then it might be reasonable to think the kid could contribute a little bit more than another token freshman player. But this is just speculation on how good he actually is. As far as you what you specifically said, you have to draw inferences from the promise, not conflate (as you did in 'summing up' my opinion with that inane strawman) an inference with that specific promise.

Any given point guard can still "sit on the bench lucky to see 5 minutes a game your first season". All I said was that it appears they want him to play the Point. I didn't necessarily infer he was promised to be a starter, or to have any significant minutes. I drew a logical inference from the supposed 'promise' for him to play the Point and the manner in which he was specifically targeted. So if you put two and two together, (assuming that Blair would be leaving) with only one point guard on the roster, that 'promise' alone at least means he would have a good shot at getting minutes.

If I have one quarterback on my roster, and I am bringing two HS freshmen in to compete for the backup spot, there is a mountain of difference between simply promising those incoming freshmen to be able to play a certain position and promising significant playing time. But deductive reasoning would lead you to believe that one of them would get that significant playing time. It has to be one of them, why not the guy that Jim Calhoun also wanted?

Any coach worth his salt, or in LK's case, a proven track record to be seen as worth his salt, would not make promises he couldn't live up to. If all he is saying is "I'm going to give you the ball and we'll see what you can do with it" then that would, indeed, be the same thing he tells all of them.

And I never inferred he 'promised' more than that.

 

[WTSooner]

I think if a HS kid played at the same HS as Ben Gordon, and was also being recruited by Jim Calhoun, then it might be reasonable to think the kid could contribute a little bit more than another token freshman player.

Why? It's late in the recruiting process. There aren't many kids left. If UCONN realized they needed another guard, maybe Cousins was the best recruit left that they felt they could get in on. That, in and of itself, doesn't mean Cousins is anything like Ben Gordon.

That's like saying any of the players we've recruited late over the past few years that ended up being COMPLETE busts, were good players, just b/c OU was recruiting them.

I get being excited about Cousins.....I am too.....but I don't get why people go overboard in talking up our recruits. Specifically, I'm talking about Cousins and Henry. Henry is a taller Cam Clark, with probably less basketball skills at this point. Upside? Absolutely. But not a kid that can contribute immediately, other than maybe defensively in some kind of high energy, trapping style of defense. He's perfect for that. Otherwise, he needs time to get his skills caught up to his athleticism. I view Cousins in a similar light, though he is more skilled than Henry. He's a kid that was an afterthought until what, a month or 6 weeks ago? That isn't an accident. The scouting reports on him just 3-5 months ago weren't all that encouraging. Sure, kids improve, and MAYBE Cousins has made ridiculous improvements, but probably not. There is probably going to be a learning curve for him. I just find it hard to believe he improved on all of these areas that the scouts said he needed to improve, over the course of a couple of months.

Not trying to be a downer, I like the kid, and think he can contribute. But talking about him starting? Come on. He'd have to beat out, in theory, anywhere from 2-4 kids to start at any of the guard spots. Both incoming guards are more "skilled", and that is what we need, skill. We have some athleticism (Cam). We need guys that are skilled. Guys that can make shots. To me, that is a better description of Hield and Hornbeak at this point. I think people forget who was recruiting those two kids, especially Hornbeak. He had tons of good offers.

 

[WTSooner]

OU now has options. Last season there were simply no options. Grooms, Blair and Pledger had to play. Grooms and Pledger had to combine for about 65 minutes per game. Next season if Kruger is upset with Grooms or Pledger he has the option of sitting them for a while. I think that will make the team better. I don't expect either guy to sit a lot but simply having the option makes OU better.

If one of them does sit a lot, I think that is good because it means one of the new players is pretty good.

IMO, this is where you will see the new guys help out the most. Those games where the starters stink things up. Or get tired. Or have a dry spell. Or go into a week long shooting slump. LK has options. Legit options. That said, over the course of the season, I mostly see last year's starters and M'Baye caring the load. And starting. And that is fine. Those guys did a good job last year more often then not. There were very few games we were never in. But now LK can supplement those guys with the new kids, to improve those bad stretches. We do that, we go Dancing.

 

[DenverSooner]

IMO, this is where you will see the new guys help out the most. Those games where the starters stink things up. Or get tired. Or have a dry spell. Or go into a week long shooting slump. LK has options. Legit options. That said, over the course of the season, I mostly see last year's starters and M'Baye caring the load. And starting. And that is fine. Those guys did a good job last year more often then not. There were very few games we were never in. But now LK can supplement those guys with the new kids, to improve those bad stretches. We do that, we go Dancing.

I completely agree except to say that adding another good three point shooter will be a huge addition to the team. I don't know if OU has done that but it would make a noticable impact.

 

[bgrch1350]

Why? It's late in the recruiting process. There aren't many kids left. If UCONN realized they needed another guard, maybe Cousins was the best recruit left that they felt they could get in on. That, in and of itself, doesn't mean Cousins is anything like Ben Gordon.
That's like saying any of the players we've recruited late over the past few years that ended up being COMPLETE busts, were good players, just b/c OU was recruiting them.

I get being excited about Cousins.....I am too.....but I don't get why people go overboard in talking up our recruits. Specifically, I'm talking about Cousins and Henry. Henry is a taller Cam Clark, with probably less basketball skills at this point. Upside? Absolutely. But not a kid that can contribute immediately, other than maybe defensively in some kind of high energy, trapping style of defense. He's perfect for that. Otherwise, he needs time to get his skills caught up to his athleticism. I view Cousins in a similar light, though he is more skilled than Henry. He's a kid that was an afterthought until what, a month or 6 weeks ago? That isn't an accident. The scouting reports on him just 3-5 months ago weren't all that encouraging. Sure, kids improve, and MAYBE Cousins has made ridiculous improvements, but probably not. There is probably going to be a learning curve for him. I just find it hard to believe he improved on all of these areas that the scouts said he needed to improve, over the course of a couple of months.

Not trying to be a downer, I like the kid, and think he can contribute. But talking about him starting? Come on. He'd have to beat out, in theory, anywhere from 2-4 kids to start at any of the guard spots. Both incoming guards are more "skilled", and that is what we need, skill. We have some athleticism (Cam). We need guys that are skilled. Guys that can make shots. To me, that is a better description of Hield and Hornbeak at this point. I think people forget who was recruiting those two kids, especially Hornbeak. He had tons of good offers.

Totally Agree.

If Blair is here next year...this kid wouldn't beat him out for playing time. Long Term-good(hopefully)...immediate impact(doubtful).

The difference between Uconn and us is that if UConn got Cousins...he may get 5 to 0 minutes a game b/c this kid will not play over Boatright, Napier, or Smith or even Omar Calhoun. But for us...he may be the best recruit we have coming in.

 

[playmakr]

OU will have enough talent to be a bubble team next year. I don't have any doubt. If they aren't at least knocking on the NCAA door, Kruger and staff didn't have a good year. (Disclaimer: Barring some critical injury, say to Osby or something like that)

I expect a very small lineup with more pressure and full court activity. In the non conference this year (I know, easier, less grueling schedule) their identify was their defensive pressure, even throwing in some full court action and trapping, but with no depth they couldn't keep that up.

I except to see Osby at the 5 even some, with a frenetic defensive pace, the starters get tired bring in H&H, Cousins, Clark, etc.

 

[DenverSooner]

I think we will see Osby, M'Baye and Clark on the court a lot together. I really think Clark, M'Baye and Osby could out rebound most teams in the Big XII. Both Osby and Clark (when he asserts himself) can rebound pretty well. I think M'Baye is going to be a solid rebounder too. Cam averaged 4.7 boards on the year and he had some big rebounding games in conference play late in the season. I would love to see him push his boards to 5.5 or 6 a game next season and increase his offensive rebounds to about 60 (from 34) for the season. Some may think that is a very impressive total but 5.5 to 6 boards a game would be in the top 15-10 rebounders in the conference.