Sell me on "low major" graduate transfers

[thebigabd]

Many here seem to favor the "low major" D1 graduate transfer over some HS players and certainly over junior college recruiting at this stage of the game. In fact, many of the coaches must feel the same way because they are passing up good junior college talent to go after players from Maine, Pacific, and other "low major" leagues.

The base logic makes sense... they've played D1 basketball before, they are older, graduated, experienced, etc. However, you only get them for one year and they only get one year to adjust to a new team, develop chemistry, etc and then they are gone.

Also, a quick scan of the All Big 12 selections doesn't yield a single player like this. On the other hand, 20% of the list is made up of juco transfers. So at least there is a precedent for juco transfers competing at a high level in this league.

OSU took one last year who played an important role on their team (Kendall Smith), but he was up and down, but overall a solid player. But now he is gone already. Just a one year rental to fill a gap before the next season starts.

What is your reasoning for favoring guys like Aaron Calixte and Miles Reynolds over guys like Devonte Bandoo and Ricky Torres? I am not saying it is wrong to favor these, I am just curious as to why so many of you seem to get more excited about the grad transfer than other types of recruits.

 

[sperry]

Many here seem to favor the "low major" D1 graduate transfer over some HS players and certainly over junior college recruiting at this stage of the game. In fact, many of the coaches must feel the same way because they are passing up good junior college talent to go after players from Maine, Pacific, and other "low major" leagues.

The base logic makes sense... they've played D1 basketball before, they are older, graduated, experienced, etc. However, you only get them for one year and they only get one year to adjust to a new team, develop chemistry, etc and then they are gone.

Also, a quick scan of the All Big 12 selections doesn't yield a single player like this. On the other hand, 20% of the list is made up of juco transfers. So at least there is a precedent for juco transfers competing at a high level in this league.

OSU took one last year who played an important role on their team (Kendall Smith), but he was up and down, but overall a solid player. But now he is gone already. Just a one year rental to fill a gap before the next season starts.

What is your reasoning for favoring guys like Aaron Calixte and Miles Reynolds over guys like Devonte Bandoo and Ricky Torres? I am not saying it is wrong to favor these, I am just curious as to why so many of you seem to get more excited about the grad transfer than other types of recruits.

Guys like Reynolds and Calixte put up numbers against competition miles ahead of what anyone in JUCO has done. They are legitimate D1 players who performed at a high level. There isn't a comparison.


My ranking, and I would assume most would agree with me are as follows: High School players > High level D1 transfers > low level grad transfers > JUCO guys.


JUCOs and Grad transfers are both ideally used to fill in gaps on your roster for a given year or two. Grad transfers, however, are guys who have proven their chops against D1 competition for 3+ years. They also clear out after one year so that you can use that roster spot for a more valuable HS or D1 transfer player. JUCOs have played against garbage competition making it harder to evaluate them. They take up a roster spot for two years, so its more punishing when they don't turn out well. And JUCO guys are usually there for a reason, i.e. they have some kind of baggage, whether that's academic or off the court.

 

[sheepdogs1]

Their play on the court will do all the 'selling' necessary.

 

[Ghost of Gar Heard]

They're better than most juco guys.

 

[coolm]

1. for coaches it's much more of a known commodity so you dont have to completely wait and see

2. you can get them on the floor quickly

3. they dont have that infernal learning lag that you have when kids are still getting their feet wet.

4. game experience counts ... ESPECIALLY if it was during a brutal whipping or hard season.

 

[pnkranger]

1. for coaches it's much more of a known commodity so you dont have to completely wait and see

2. you can get them on the floor quickly

3. they dont have that infernal learning lag that you have when kids are still getting their feet wet.

4. game experience counts ... ESPECIALLY if it was during a brutal whipping or hard season.

They have 3 years of court time against high major opponents (via non conference) so coaches have plenty of film to evaluate.

 

[WaymanFan]

ABD, do you remember when we played #14 seed Niagara in the first round of the 2005 NCAA Tournament? They had three really good players (and a bunch of players who no major college would be interested in), and I remember a direct quote made by Kelvin Sampson about them before the game. He said: "Niagara has three guys WHO COULD PLAY IN OUR LEAGUE". There is nothing wrong with a major college program grabbing the best (or second best) player from a mid-major program. Like others have pointed out, they have already played against better competition than most the JUCO players.

 

[AdaSooner]

Abd, as you already know I’m not opposed to bringing in a juco player or two to fill specific needs. I would rather see our coaches identify the targets they are interested in early on, instead of doing what I like to call “last minute shopping,” but I have always been in favor of mixing juco transfers with high school recruits.

That said, I prefer signing grad transfers this time around for two reasons. OU is in on several of the top high school recruits in our 2019 class. I would not want to see us tie up another scholarship with a juco player on top of the two we have now. If we have no other option, that might be different. But grad transfers will give us the help we’ll need next season and be gone when it’s time to sign the high school players we’re in on. I see that as the best of both worlds.

I’m not the least bit bothered by bringing in low major tranfers like Reynolds and Calixte. We see low and mid major players just like them in the NCAA tourney every season. Both appear to be late bloomers who might have been passed over by high major coaches. Who knows why? Coaches make mistakes sometimes by giving up on kids too early, or they may wait too long like Capel used to do until a recruit has no choice but to pick another school.

I really like what I have seen of Calixte and Reynolds on video. I think they’re perfect for the roster spots we’re trying to fill. Calixte is a true point guard and a good one from what I have seen. Reynolds is a combo guard who can swing to the point if need be. They will also give us two mature players who have something to prove. If that was not the case, I doubt if they would be linterested in a change of scenery to finish their senior season.

Reynolds is already a Sooner. I hope Calixte will be too!

 

[thebigabd]

I really like what I have seen of Calixte and Reynolds on video

I think Calixte looked pretty darn good on the video I saw... and you have to take into account it was against D1 players.

ABD, do you remember when we played #14 seed Niagara in the first round of the 2005 NCAA Tournament? They had three really good players (and a bunch of players who no major college would be interested in), and I remember a direct quote made by Kelvin Sampson about them before the game. He said: "Niagara has three guys WHO COULD PLAY IN OUR LEAGUE". There is nothing wrong with a major college program grabbing the best (or second best) player from a mid-major program. Like others have pointed out, they have already played against better competition than most the JUCO players.

True... Perhaps I am a little too entrenched in my current belief system on this subject.... but its hard not to when I keep seeing players within driving distance of Norman, OK be so good and OU didn't recruit them at all. Plus, as I have mentioned previously, I started watching OU basketball in 1995 and have seen the mixture of juco and HS talent work for a long time. Back in the day we were always excited when we heard Sampson landed some juco stud. I keep hearing the talent is gone yet I keep seeing examples of people within driving distance prove their value.

My ranking, and I would assume most would agree with me are as follows: High School players > High level D1 transfers > low level grad transfers > JUCO guys.

Mine would be:

High school players > Juco guys > high level D1 transfers > low level grad transfers

 

[psk2080]

I think there are a number of things at play here. First, Lon and company likely feel good about the upcoming 2019 recruiting class. They just need some players to bridge some gaps until that class arrives. Second, grad transfers take up a ship for only 1 year instead of 2. Often, grad transfers are better quality than juco kids. Especially at this late juncture. The better juco kids are already tied up. And a big thing that this team lacked last year was leadership and maturity, neither of which would be offered by a high school kid. And most of the better high school kids, just like the better jucos, are already signed. For this upcoming year, grad transfers are the perfect bandaid for OU. And then Lon and his staff need to recruit the 2019 class like crazy.

 

[Soonerinkc]

I posted this in another...

I'm going to assume that maybe these guys are much better now than they were coming out of HS, thus they had to go the lower/mid D1 level vs major D1.

For some reason only they would know, they wanted to go D1 vs juco or smaller school no matter what....D1 was their goal.

Hopefully they will prove their worth....but I'm not super excited about getting 2-3 one year guys to plug holes...

 

[sperry]

I posted this in another...

I'm going to assume that maybe these guys are much better now than they were coming out of HS, thus they had to go the lower/mid D1 level vs major D1.

For some reason only they would know, they wanted to go D1 vs juco or smaller school no matter what....D1 was their goal.

Hopefully they will prove their worth....but I'm not super excited about getting 2-3 one year guys to plug holes...

Nobody goes JUCO if they qualify and have a D1 offer. The guys in JUCO are there because they got no offers or because they couldn't qualify.

 

[Soonerinkc]

Nobody goes JUCO if they qualify and have a D1 offer. The guys in JUCO are there because they got no offers or because they couldn't qualify.

glad you know 100% every kid going to school...I didn't say every juco kid had D1 offers. I would be willing to bet there are a few that thought they could improve their "stock" or get to a better D1 or even going to a D1 they wanted by going juco.

There are a ton of reasons kids choose schools. I had my 2 kids go through the process.

 

[TINY]

Nobody goes JUCO if they qualify and have a D1 offer. The guys in JUCO are there because they got no offers or because they couldn't qualify.

I can get a scholarship to pacific and get a real degree while living in California or go get an associate’s degree at a POS juco and live in dodge city/el dorado/coffeyville, Kansas or Miami, ok. Hmm..decisions, decisions...

 

[sperry]

glad you know 100% every kid going to school...I didn't say every juco kid had D1 offers. I would be willing to bet there are a few that thought they could improve their "stock" or get to a better D1 or even going to a D1 they wanted by going juco.

There are a ton of reasons kids choose schools. I had my 2 kids go through the process.

It would be more like 99%, but yes you can say with confidence that guys are at JUCO because that was their only option.

 

[BCSooners]

Lazenby is an example of someone who went to JUCO but qualified out of HS. He only had low D1 offers out of HS.

 

[TINY]

Lazenby is an example of someone who went to JUCO but qualified out of HS. He only had low D1 offers out of HS.

I’d be very surprised if he actually had commitable offers out of high school to a D1 program. He seems like a PWO type at best out of high school.

 

[BCSooners]

I’d be very surprised if he actually had commitable offers out of high school to a D1 program. He seems like a PWO type at best out of high school.

I don't like him at OU but he could've easily went to a low D1 out of HS & been successful.

 

[hoopsaustin]

I’d be very surprised if he actually had commitable offers out of high school to a D1 program. He seems like a PWO type at best out of high school.

This

 

[TINY]

I don't like him at OU but he could've easily went to a low D1 out of HS & been successful.

He doesn’t even have a high school recruiting profile for any of the major websites. I won’t believe he had a single D1 offer until someone provides some type of proof.