Shepherd and McNeace

[Big Old Booger]

Lattin is a better rebounder, I'll give you that. But, aside from an occasional twelve to fifteen jump shot or a put back or lob, he offers very little on offense. My biggest gripe with Khadeem is that he continues to hurt the team with the same poor decisions and silly fouls one would expect to see from a freshman, not an experienced junior who has started every game of his career. He gave up a crucial rebound in the final minutes last night on a missed Baylor free throw, because he plays soft and he still hasn't learned to box out.

McNeace makes mistakes, too. But, he gives the team a scoring threat in the post we don't get from Lattin. He is also getting better with every outing. Khadeem seems to be going in the other direction.

I agree, he is getting better but the rotation at the 5 is he and McNeace. When McNeace makes mistakes -- like not rebounding on offense or trying to shot-put the basketball from 14 feet -- he has to be pulled. The only person who can replace him is, you guessed it, Lattin.

 

[BCSooners]

Imo Lattin has kept his starting position because of leadership & defense. He is constantly talking on defense, directing players, and communicating with them during timeouts. He does seem to have a low basketball IQ on offense but defensively he makes OU better than McNeace. I honestly think the minutes between them should be based on who OU is playing and how they are playing that particular game or week. You had to have Lattin in there or Baylor's big men would have dominated even more.

 

[sooner 1234]

:facepalm

I wonder the same thing because if you watched it you surely saw him take a 12-14 foot one handed jumper with about 8 minutes left in the game. It looked like a shot-put attempt. :facepalm Prior to that he had a sweet reverse layup which he missed, but he didn't follow his shot. The ball came right back to where he finished the layup but he thinks it's going in and runs back down the court. All he had to do is stop under the goal and then put the ball back in the basket. :facepalm I learned to follow my shot in 6th grade.

Neither player is great but I agree McNeace brings more scoring power thanks to the hook. He HAS to learn how to rebound AND how to go up strong. A few times he had the ball down low last night and should have tried to take it up 2 handed and flush it. Instead he threw the ball back out of the middle so we could attempt another jumpshot. He also needs to learn that when he's outside the 8 foot range he needs to pass it back out because chances are he's not going to make it especially if he doesn't do the hook. That one handed shot-put crap just won't cut it. Remember the game earlier in the season where he tried the clown-shot, which was a one handed baseball shot that sort of resembled a hook shot and a reverse layup except he was about 8 feet from the goal?

The shot-put coincided with his exit from the game and let's just call it like it is, he wasn't rebounding. Lattin was at least rebounding somewhat. Again, neither are great but we NEEDED rebounds last night. If you watched the first part of the game, we had ZERO offensive rebounds until Lattin re-entered the game at about the 10-12 minute mark of the first half.

Lattin had 6 rebounds to Jamuni's 1.

Again , I'm into numbers not opinions .McNease has a good offense game .
Take away alley oops and fast break dunks and Lattin would go scoreless almost every game .
McNease is still a project but his offense game is his best quality .

 

[Sooner04]

What's Lattin's leadership worth when this is the worst close-game Sooner squad of my lifetime? All the words in the world are meaningless if crucial mistakes continue to happen down the stretch on your watch.

Play McNease. Play Shepherd. Both a lot more than the minutes they already receive. I'm on board.

 

[steverocks35]

What's Lattin's leadership worth when this is the worst close-game Sooner squad of my lifetime? All the words in the world are meaningless if crucial mistakes continue to happen down the stretch on your watch.

Play McNease. Play Shepherd. Both a lot more than the minutes they already receive. I'm on board.

This, and is his defense even that great? I mean, he can block the shot of smaller players, but did he bother Motley in the least?

 

[Big Old Booger]

Again , I'm into numbers not opinions .McNease has a good offense game .
Take away alley oops and fast break dunks and Lattin would go scoreless almost every game .
McNease is still a project but his offense game is his best quality .

You are into your own opinion, that's about it. Which is fine, it's a message board.

Neither played great last night. If McNease played with the same reckless abandon as he did vs Texas when he had 14 points and 14 rebounds, he would be playing more and we would be winning more. The problem is, right now, he's not. Last night, he made a few good shots. He also took a few horrible shots late when we needed points and were within striking distance. In addition, he only secured 1 rebound. Last night, Lattin had 6 rebounds, which is 600% more than McNease. Rebounding is all about effort. The spot is there for Jamuni to grab and run with it, but he has to put out more effort on both ends. Once he does that the sky is the limit.

Neither of them is the 2nd coming of Wayman Tisdale or Stacey King though Jamuni has way more upside due to the accuracy of his shot. But that doesn't excuse him from rebounding at any point. He also tends to fall asleep on defense, which we saw a few times last night with Baylor getting easy dunks and lay-ins.

 

[Big Old Booger]

What's Lattin's leadership worth when this is the worst close-game Sooner squad of my lifetime? All the words in the world are meaningless if crucial mistakes continue to happen down the stretch on your watch.

Play McNease. Play Shepherd. Both a lot more than the minutes they already receive. I'm on board.

I'm on board too. The only thing I can figure with Shepard is Lon starts DSM to protect Shepard's psyche a little.

Jamuni and Lattin are very similar to me. Neither is physical, neither is a great rebounder. Neither has a great basketball IQ. Jamuni has a better shooting touch but he's allergic to offensive rebounds and really has no clue what to do if he gets the ball closer than 4 feet to the basket. So, you play the one that's performing better. Last night, that was Lattin.

 

[steverocks35]

I'm on board too. The only thing I can figure with Shepard is Lon starts DSM to protect Shepard's psyche a little.

Jamuni and Lattin are very similar to me. Neither is physical, neither is a great rebounder. Neither has a great basketball IQ. Jamuni has a better shooting touch but he's allergic to offensive rebounds and really has no clue what to do if he gets the ball closer than 4 feet to the basket. So, you play the one that's performing better. Last night, that was Lattin.

I have to disagree, Lattin was just horrible last night. We needed scoring inside and he has zero post-up game, nada, zilch. A turnaround fade-away is all he has and he isn't even efficient with that move. When was the last time you remember Lattin going up strong and getting fouled going to the rim? At least McNeace has a game around the basket. I say play McNeace.

 

[inoref]

I have to disagree, Lattin was just horrible last night. We needed scoring inside and he has zero post-up game, nada, zilch. A turnaround fade-away is all he has and he isn't even efficient with that move. When was the last time you remember Lattin going up strong and getting fouled going to the rim? At least McNeace has a game around the basket. I say play McNeace.

NcNeace will have to learn to play without fouling..not sure if he could play entire game without fouling out this year

 

[sooner 1234]

You are into your own opinion, that's about it. Which is fine, it's a message board.

Neither played great last night. If McNease played with the same reckless abandon as he did vs Texas when he had 14 points and 14 rebounds, he would be playing more and we would be winning more. The problem is, right now, he's not. Last night, he made a few good shots. He also took a few horrible shots late when we needed points and were within striking distance. In addition, he only secured 1 rebound. Last night, Lattin had 6 rebounds, which is 600% more than McNease. Rebounding is all about effort. The spot is there for Jamuni to grab and run with it, but he has to put out more effort on both ends. Once he does that the sky is the limit.

Neither of them is the 2nd coming of Wayman Tisdale or Stacey King though Jamuni has way more upside due to the accuracy of his shot. But that doesn't excuse him from rebounding at any point. He also tends to fall asleep on defense, which we saw a few times last night with Baylor getting easy dunks and lay-ins.

Lattin missed an easy on the block basket ,missed a block out on a free throw , and committed an intentional foul within the last minute and half of the game .


That's about as bad as basketball as you will see , other then a JV highschool game this week .

 

[Big Old Booger]

Lattin missed an easy on the block basket ,missed a block out on a free throw , and committed an intentional foul within the last minute and half of the game .


That's about as bad as basketball as you will see , other then a JV highschool game this week .

I agree. At that point though, it was too late. McNease playing that last minute wasn't going to change the outcome. He wasn't going to block out on the missed FT either. Maybe he makes the missed easy basket but he missed an easy reverse layup a few minutes before he exited the game.

Neither is great. So, you play the one who is playing the best and due to Lattin's rebounding that was him.

 

[steverocks35]

I agree. At that point though, it was too late. McNease playing that last minute wasn't going to change the outcome. He wasn't going to block out on the missed FT either. Maybe he makes the missed easy basket but he missed an easy reverse layup a few minutes before he exited the game.

Neither is great. So, you play the one who is playing the best and due to Lattin's rebounding that was him.

I have to disagree again. 5 more rebounds doesn't negate all the other awful plays Lattin made. I don't remember McNeace making bonehead plays and attempting fade-away jumpshot after fade-away jumpshot.

Lattin played 26 minutes to McNeace's 14. Lattin had 3 points on 1-6 shooting and 1-2 from the foul line. He had 4 fouls to McNeace's 2. Lattin had 6 rebounds, McNeace had 1. McNeace only had 4 points on 2-6 shooting but at least he was aggressive, and he was unlucky on a couple of his shots that rolled out. They both had 1 blocked shot.

I wish we could flip their minutes and we could see what McNeace could do getting into the flow of the game better.

 

[Big Old Booger]

I have to disagree, Lattin was just horrible last night. We needed scoring inside and he has zero post-up game, nada, zilch. A turnaround fade-away is all he has and he isn't even efficient with that move. When was the last time you remember Lattin going up strong and getting fouled going to the rim? At least McNeace has a game around the basket. I say play McNeace.

Lattin had 4 points on 1-6 shooting. McNease had 4 points on 2-5 shooting. Lattin had 6 rebounds, McNease had 1. 4 of Lattin's rebounds were on the offensive end, McNease had 0 offensive rebounds. McNease had 2 turnovers, Lattin had 0. Both had 1 block. Looking at that stat line, Lattin played the better game. 4 more offensive rebounds and 2 less TO's.

Playing winning basketball isn't always about which players can score the most points. Dennis Rodman averaged 13 rebounds and 7 points per game. John Stockton averaged 10 assists per game and 13 points per game. Both players are 2 of the best ever to play.

 

[steverocks35]

Lattin had 4 points on 1-6 shooting. McNease had 4 points on 2-5 shooting. Lattin had 6 rebounds, McNease had 1. 4 of Lattin's rebounds were on the offensive end, McNease had 0 offensive rebounds. McNease had 2 turnovers, Lattin had 0. Both had 1 block. Looking at that stat line, Lattin played the better game. 4 more offensive rebounds and 2 less TO's.

Playing winning basketball isn't always about which players can score the most points. Dennis Rodman averaged 13 rebounds and 7 points per game. John Stockton averaged 10 assists per game and 13 points per game. Both players are 2 of the best ever to play.

Lattin played almost double McNeace's minutes. And you're wrong about the turnovers, Lattin had 1 and McNeace had 2.

And your argument about playing winning basketball would mean a lot more if we were, you know, playing winning basketball.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Lattin played almost double McNeace's minutes. And you're wrong about the turnovers, Lattin had 1 and McNeace had 2.

You are right, Lattin did have a TO and it was after an offensive rebound. :facepalm

Regardless, McNeace could have played double the amount of Lattin and I bet McNeace still doesn't have an offensive rebound.

I like McNeace better too, overall. But, I can't fault Lon for playing Lattin more last night because neither one was great but at least Lattin was rebounding and he doesn't fall asleep on defense. McNeace has a great offensive touch but he needs a nasty streak.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Lattin played almost double McNeace's minutes. And you're wrong about the turnovers, Lattin had 1 and McNeace had 2.

And your argument about playing winning basketball would mean a lot more if we were, you know, playing winning basketball.

More rebounds and more assists and we would be playing winning basketball.:woot

 

[steverocks35]

You are right, Lattin did have a TO and it was after an offensive rebound. :facepalm

Regardless, McNeace could have played double the amount of Lattin and I bet McNeace still doesn't have an offensive rebound.

I like McNeace better too, overall. But, I can't fault Lon for playing Lattin more last night because neither one was great but at least Lattin was rebounding and he doesn't fall asleep on defense. McNeace has a great offensive touch but he needs a nasty streak.

We have no way of knowing what McNeace would do if he got Lattin's minutes, but I would like to find out.

 

[steverocks35]

More rebounds and more assists and we would be playing winning basketball.:woot

Well, we had one guy on the team in double figures scoring so the assist total might increase if we had guys that could put it in the hole. Hell, if the Thunder had shooters Westbrook might average 20 assists a game.

 

[Big Old Booger]

We have no way of knowing what McNeace would do if he got Lattin's minutes, but I would like to find out.

You are right but 0 times anything is 0. Like I said, both didn't distinguish themselves last night. If McNeace played every night like he did vs Texas last week, then we are a much better team. He clearly has a higher ceiling but he's got to put out more effort on the boards.

 

[CMSOONER]

Looking at their season stats. Given the same minutes I don't think anyone could argue that Money could produce at least the same numbers as Lattin. Probably not steals at this point but every where else.

Player min avg fg-fga fg% ft-fta ft% off def tot avg a to blk stl pts avg
Lattin 627 23.2 75-148 0.507 56-79 0.709 63 96 159 5.9 12 37 54 32 206 7.6
Money 437 16.2 49-89 0.551 18-35 0.514 37 70 107 4.0 5 22 35 6 116 4.3