Shepherd and McNeace

CMSOONER said:
Looking at their season stats. Given the same minutes I don't think anyone could argue that Money could produce at least the same numbers as Lattin. Probably not steals at this point but every where else.

Player min avg fg-fga fg% ft-fta ft% off def tot avg a to blk stl pts avg
Lattin 627 23.2 75-148 0.507 56-79 0.709 63 96 159 5.9 12 37 54 32 206 7.6
Money 437 16.2 49-89 0.551 18-35 0.514 37 70 107 4.0 5 22 35 6 116 4.3
Click to expand...

That's a pretty big disparity on rebounds, which we need as much as anything else from the 5.
 
Big Old Booger said:
I agree. At that point though, it was too late. McNease playing that last minute wasn't going to change the outcome. He wasn't going to block out on the missed FT either. Maybe he makes the missed easy basket but he missed an easy reverse layup a few minutes before he exited the game.

Neither is great. So, you play the one who is playing the best and due to Lattin's rebounding that was him.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying playing McNease would have been the difference in a win or a loss but Lattins play the last two minutes gave us no chance whatsoever of winning the game .
WE probably still lose with McNease but we had no shot in hell for a win with Lattins play down the stretch .

THats my point ,I'm not saying McNease is heads and shoulders a better player but Lattin is not our answer .
McNease gets better almost every week while Lattin is in tailspin .
MCNease has a higher ceiling then any player Lon has had and is brand new to basketball .
Lattin could play 10 years for Lon and he will never be anything other then junk points and a shot blocker .
 
Sooner04 said:
What's Lattin's leadership worth when this is the worst close-game Sooner squad of my lifetime? All the words in the world are meaningless if crucial mistakes continue to happen down the stretch on your watch.

Play McNease. Play Shepherd. Both a lot more than the minutes they already receive. I'm on board.
Click to expand...



I'm on board, too!

Lattin definitely has the potential to be a leader on this team. He has even talked about it in interviews more than once. But, a good leader also leads by example. They don't continue to make the same mistakes over and over that hurts the team, and that includes committing silly fouls that limits your time on the floor. Those are two of the things about Khadeem's quest to be a leader that bother me.

Shepherd is simply a better point guard than Strong-Moore. Not saying SM shouldn't play, just that Shep should get the bulk of the minutes, especially during crunch time. He plays under control, and that was what we needed at the end of last night's game.
 
CMSOONER said:
Looking at their season stats. Given the same minutes I don't think anyone could argue that Money could produce at least the same numbers as Lattin. Probably not steals at this point but every where else.

Player min avg fg-fga fg% ft-fta ft% off def tot avg a to blk stl pts avg
Lattin 627 23.2 75-148 0.507 56-79 0.709 63 96 159 5.9 12 37 54 32 206 7.6
Money 437 16.2 49-89 0.551 18-35 0.514 37 70 107 4.0 5 22 35 6 116 4.3
Click to expand...

Per 40 minutes, Lattin beats McNeace in points, rebounds, blocks, and steals. Assists, too.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/oklahoma/2017.html
 
chuckb said:
Per 40 minutes, Lattin beats McNeace in points, rebounds, blocks, and steals. Assists, too.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/oklahoma/2017.html
Click to expand...

The minimal difference between each statistical category is enough for me go with McNease as his numbers have a higher chance of increasing with gaining experience. Lattin is and will be next year what he is today nearing the end of his 3rd year.

I like what Lattin brings to the table, but as a role player. When he's fired up and effecting the game keep him on the floor. But when he starts becoming a non-factor its time to sit.
 
CMSOONER said:
The minimal difference between each statistical category is enough for me go with McNease as his numbers have a higher chance of increasing with gaining experience. Lattin is and will be next year what he is today nearing the end of his 3rd year.

I like what Lattin brings to the table, but as a role player. When he's fired up and effecting the game keep him on the floor. But when he starts becoming a non-factor its time to sit.
Click to expand...

That's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. But there's a case to be made that Lattin's unquestionably better than McNeace. I like McNeace's improvement and athleticism and understand complaints about Lattin but it's pretty clear that Lattin's still the better player. That doesn't necessarily mean McNeace shouldn't play more in the last 4-5 games of the season, but one has to really work to push the narrative that McNeace is better right now. He's just objectively not.
 
chuckb said:
That's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. But there's a case to be made that Lattin's unquestionably better than McNeace. I like McNeace's improvement and athleticism and understand complaints about Lattin but it's pretty clear that Lattin's still the better player. That doesn't necessarily mean McNeace shouldn't play more in the last 4-5 games of the season, but one has to really work to push the narrative that McNeace is better right now. He's just objectively not.
Click to expand...

I never once said McNeace is better right now. I said Lattin is who he is and who he will be this time next year. McNeace on the other hand is on the rise and possibly (not guaranteed) has a higher ceiling. So I would think that giving McNease more minutes the remainder of this year would really benefit him and could light a fire under Lattin to step up his level pf play.
 
I agree 100%. januni needs to show Lattin the jump hook. By far the best inside shot1111
 
CMSOONER said:
I never once said McNeace is better right now. I said Lattin is who he is and who he will be this time next year. McNeace on the other hand is on the rise and possibly (not guaranteed) has a higher ceiling. So I would think that giving McNease more minutes the remainder of this year would really benefit him and could light a fire under Lattin to step up his level pf play.
Click to expand...

I must have misunderstood this statement -- "Given the same minutes I don't think anyone could argue that Money could produce at least the same numbers as Lattin. Probably not steals at this point but every where else." -- then. To me, that implies you believe McNeace is better than Lattin right now.

I disagree that we should play McNeace more than Lattin right now but I understand the argument. I think we have a real chance to win 3 of our last 5 games and, to me, that means having our best players on the court most of the time. There's plenty of time for McNeace to develop in the offseason. I just don't think he or the team will gain that much by him playing 25-30 minutes per game over the last few. But I get why some disagree with that.

I also understand people's frustration with Lattin. He has flaws. To me, though, people pay too much attention to the flaws and not enough attention to what he does well. He's simply better than McNeace right now, even with the flaws, and one of the team's 5 best players. I hope he works on those flaws and improves before his senior season and if McNeace passes him, let him play. But he's not there yet.
 
Big Old Booger said:
That's a pretty big disparity on rebounds, which we need as much as anything else from the 5.
Click to expand...

6.60 boards per "minute played avg"

6.85 boards per "minute played avg"

who is who?

okay, so Lattin is a tad better...but again, the argument is "what would McNeace do with Lattin's minutes...just a thought.
 
Khadeem has had good games this season, only to disappear in others.

Jamuni has had good games, only to disappear in others.

Wouldn't it be nice if both players would find a way to play well at the same time?
 
chuckb said:
I must have misunderstood this statement -- "Given the same minutes I don't think anyone could argue that Money could produce at least the same numbers as Lattin. Probably not steals at this point but every where else." -- then. To me, that implies you believe McNeace is better than Lattin right now.

I disagree that we should play McNeace more than Lattin right now but I understand the argument. I think we have a real chance to win 3 of our last 5 games and, to me, that means having our best players on the court most of the time. There's plenty of time for McNeace to develop in the offseason. I just don't think he or the team will gain that much by him playing 25-30 minutes per game over the last few. But I get why some disagree with that.

I also understand people's frustration with Lattin. He has flaws. To me, though, people pay too much attention to the flaws and not enough attention to what he does well. He's simply better than McNeace right now, even with the flaws, and one of the team's 5 best players. I hope he works on those flaws and improves before his senior season and if McNeace passes him, let him play. But he's not there yet.
Click to expand...

I see where I gave that impression. I don't believe McNease is better than Lattin right now. Lattin is consistent in what he's going to give you on the floor and that to me is the main difference. Given the same minutes I think McNease would produce equal and possibly better numbers (Averages) than Lattin, but the inconsistency would most likely over shadow that. 14 & 14 one game followed up by 4 & 1, etc.

If we were in a better spot this season with a chance to make any post season tournament then I absolutley say go with the best players and try to position the team as best it can for a post season run. But this team isn't making it past the conference tourney, barring a miraculous tourney championship. With our team being so young, they all need to gain experience. Woodards injury gives Lon no choice but to play Shepherd more. Odomes is blossoming into more than I would have expected in just one year. McGusty and Doolittle are getting the time they need. Freeman I feel we could bring along a little bit slower, but the front court has been a big weakness this year. So why not get McNease more minutes to build for next year. Increase McNease' minutes, scale back Lattin's a little bit, nothing major. Even play them side by side at times. Heck leave Lattin in when he's in foul trouble so you have no choice but to sit him for a longer stretch when he picks up another foul. ;)

I'm not looking at Lattin's flaws. I'm lookng at who he is as a player, and we know exactly what hes going to bring every night. 7 points, 5 rebounds, 1 stl, 2 blk. Next year will likely be 9 points, 6 rebounds, 1 stl, 2 blks. McNease may not grow into anything more than what we see now. Heck as fans we always think there's one guy on the bench could be better than the guy on the floor. Last year was James and Walker and as James got more minutes he proved to be the better player. I think it's worth it to take a little bit longer look at what he could possibly become. But I can't argue that it's wrong, bad or whatever to continue to play Lattin over McNease.
 
CMSOONER said:
I'm not looking at Lattin's flaws. I'm lookng at who he is as a player, and we know exactly what hes going to bring every night.
Click to expand...

The comment I made about paying attention too much to players' flaws wasn't specifically about you. I think we all do it. We're fans to the nth degree and we tend to be (overly) critical of our team. I was furious watching the game the other day when Strong-Moore wouldn't foul the Baylor PG with 35 seconds left in the game. My point is that we all do this and I think it's ok to say "Lattin needs to box out" or "Odomes needs to work on his 3 pt shot" or whatever. That's fine and good.

But every player has weaknesses. This will always be true. Nobody complained (or rarely, I know it happened in game threads) about all of Buddy's turnovers last year b/c he was scoring 25-30 PPG and we were winning. But he had 1 game with 10 turnovers and had several turnovers in some other games. The bottom line is that Lattin will never be the banger inside that Spangler was. That's ok. He blocks shots and gets steals and is a good offensive rebounder. Woodard never really became the great ballhandler and "true PG" we wanted/expected him to be but he became a great shooter and was an integral part of a Final 4 team.

So I'm saying it's ok to discuss their flaws and weaknesses and say that Lattin needs to work on that jump hook and Shepherd needs to get stronger and become a better decision-maker and Odomes needs to work on his outside shooting but we should also be willing to acknowledge all their strengths as well. Lattin and McNeace are both outstanding shot-blockers. Oregon is the #1 team in the country at blocking shots and our 2 bigs block shots at the same rate as Oregon's (but sometimes Oregon's bigs play together so they end up blocking more shots). We can't make these guys who they're not but we can hope that they get better in areas they're weak.
 
Darwin said:
Romero Osby
Cam Clark
Tyler Neal
Longar Longar
Taylor Griffin
Not every senior has by far their best year as a senior but what if you gave up on these guys because they had not shown you enough.
Click to expand...
Nate Carter is another good example
 
McNeace, Shepherd and Lattin should be starting. :D

*Shepherd started the second half. #Progress
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Sooner Season
I shouldn't take too much from the Bama loss?
2
Replies
22
Views
563
jdizzle34
J
N
Dec. 1988 game at the Pit: one of the top 12 games
Replies
7
Views
205
NMSooner'80
N
J
Thoughts on Bama
Replies
17
Views
348
WichitaSooner
W
M
All SEC Games
Replies
2
Views
68
MsProudSooner
M
CoachTalk
Fears & the NBA Draft Projections
2 3
Replies
57
Views
2K
MiketheH
MiketheH
Back
Top