Softball

[sybarite]

You think the committee that wrote the rules thought it was necessary to say that it could not be touching the ground at the time of the catch? Is there a sport that allows that?

 

[SoonerSpock]

I think the question per the rule is did she have complete control of the ball prior to hitting the ground and after hitting the ground. I personally think she did. Hence I see the ball as caught prior to it hitting the ground.

The first game I do not think she ever had complete control of the ball. JMHO.

I think the problem the first day is one they do not have replay and they make a decision based on what they thought. I did not really have an opinion until I saw the replay. The umps did not get that option. It is what it is. I call it getting the breaks. We got those breaks the last two years we did not get those breaks this year. Luck has always been apart of the game and it will continue to be a factor in determining future winners.

For certain both plays were examples of why there needs to be replays in softball.

 

[Sooner81]

OK, so OU just finished the season 57-5 yes 57-5 and IN the final four of softball on the biggest stage. OU has won the NCAA title 3 out of 6 years now and BY FAR is the Best coach in softball. QUIT THE COMPLAINING AND GRIPING AND OVER ANALYZING!!!!!

I do that to Sherri but she deserves the complaints and over analyzing and griping because she has never won ANYTHING and has been awful for 5-7 years and is making a ton of money. She is Not worth it and Patty is worth every dime and maybe much more!!

 

[sybarite]

I think the question per the rule is did she have complete control of the ball prior to hitting the ground and after hitting the ground. I personally think she did.

The first game I do not think she ever had complete control of the ball. JMHO.

I think the problem the first day is one they do not have replay and they make a decision based on what they thought. I did not really have an opinion until I saw the replay. The umps did not get that option. It is what it is. I call it getting the breaks. We got those breaks the last two years we did not get those breaks this year. Luck has always been apart of the game and it will continue to be a factor in determining future winners.

For certain both plays were examples of why there needs to be replays in softball.

I don't even think the "catch" of yesterday was close. Since the definition of a catch appears to be inadequate to satisfy the situation, let's approach it from a different direction.

From the official rules of softball:

Sec.
100
.
TRAPPED BALL.
A trapped ball is
:
a.
A legally batted fly ball or line drive that hits the ground or a fence prior to being caught
,
or
b.
A legally batted fly ball that is caught against a fe
nce with the glove or bare hand, or
c.
A thrown
ball to any base for a force out which is caught with the glove over the ball on
the ground rather than under the ball
, or
d.
(FP ONLY) A pitched ball that touches the ground on a strike
,
prior to the catcher catching

I would think the ball from yesterday is the definition of trapped.

 

[SoonerSpock]

I don't even think the "catch" of yesterday was close. Since the definition of a catch appears to be inadequate to satisfy the situation, let's approach it from a different direction.

From the official rules of softball:



I would think the ball from yesterday is the definition of trapped.

We will have to agree to disagree , now that is unusual. My view of the catch she had complete control of the ball which is the criteria prior to the ball touching the ground for a catch being valid. Your perspective is different.

Ask 1000 Washington fans and 900+will say it was indisputable a catch. Ask 1000 Sooners and 900+ will say it was trapped. The umps did not get the luxury of replay. They made a judgement call that went against the Sooners just as the play Thursday went the Husky way.

Last year Aviu was safe at home when she clearly was more than 3' outside of the baseline avoiding the tag. The call went the Sooners way. Sometimes the ball bounces your way sometimes it doesn't. You accept the decision and move on.

The rules of the game gives guidelines that require the umps to make subjective decisions. They followed the rules and made their decision. They don't get the benefit of replay. Both plays are evidence for the need for replay. By rule there is nothing to argue about regarding the play as replay is for the fans not the game. At least at this time.

I'll be a Syb and modify the subject matter as the above argument is moot. Shay was out twice and that is not going to change.

From my prospective the RF should never have made an attempt to make the catch either Thursday or Saturday. Washington had a two run lead on Thursday with 2 out. By attempting to make the catch she exposed her team to possibly going from a 2 run lead to trailing 3-2 and losing the game.

I think the smart decision was to take the angle to hold Shay's hit to a single and 1 run scores with runners on the corners and two out. That protects the 2-1 lead and does not expose your team immediately to a possible loss.

After the fact if I were the Husky coach I would have praised my RF for her game winning catch but further explained the risk she exposed her team to by making the decision to go for the catch. I would have told her to be smart next time and play it safe given the game situation. Don't put your team in a postion to possibly lose.

Furthermore I feel if the coach had that conversation with the RF Thursday then Saturday it is probable she would have allowed the single to drop again having allowed only 1 run to score and maintaining a 3-1 with runners on the corner.

Therefore I think it is a bad decision on the RF on both occasions. I think she exposed her team too much risk for potential defeat. To me the smarter play is to keep the game under control and not take the risk. JMHO.

Oh well I will be rooting for the Noles as I think the ACC winning the championship is better for the game than a Pac-12 or SEC team winning it all.

 

[sybarite]

I think I'll stick with Washington.

We do disagree, completely. A catch requires some element of certainty, and I don't think the umpires had it in either. As many calls that are called differently, I'm not very pleased to see the integrity of the catch disregarded. You catch it, or you don't. Never tried to fake it myself. Of course, I played infield.

The Aviu thing probably should have been an out. But, you don't see outs called on basepath violations very often. They are very inconsistent when they do enforce them. I don't remember which game it was, but we had one game in which a baserunner was shoved by the shortstop to get her out of the way. The announcers were wanting an interference call on the runner. That was clearly a violation by the shortstop. You are definitely not allowed to shove a runner. I haven't looked to see the penalty on that. I am surprised that nothing was called since it was so out in the open. One of the most inconsistent calls has been whether the fielder is impeding the runner. Mendes got the benefit on that last week which surprised me. They just never call it.

With some of the hops that I have seen the ball take in this CWS, I won't criticize the RF for diving. Too many balls have hopped over gloves. The infield was not well-prepared.

 

[SoonerinNC]

I think that the umpires were unable to see that the Washington right fielder made a catch in either situation. All the replays showed in the first instance the right fielder lost control of the ball when she hit the ground and after she spun around the ball was coming out. No way was it a fumble when taking the ball out of the glove to throw it. It was the third out. No need to throw the ball. Since the umpires didn't ever see the catch completed and the ball came out they only guessed that she got control of the ball as she spun.

In the second instance yesterday for whatever reason the right fielder caught the ball with the glover over the ball rather than under the ball. The next instant the glove hit the ground. No way the ball did not hit the ground. Also if you noticed she quickly reached under the glove with the other hand. Why do that if you have the ball secure.

In the first instance a questionable catch that they could not confirm and the second one no way a catch. Terrific defensive right fielder though. I think she was the defensive player of the year in the Pac-10.

we lost because Washington is a very good team and we failed repeatedly to get a hit with runners in scoring position. Romero's poor post season was particularly damaging. And we also had a lot of well hit balls go directly at a fielder. Those things even out over time.

We have a shot next year if the new pitcher coming in is as good as the hype and our returning pitchers improve. They are good now but not national championship good.

And I am taking the over on Alo passing Chamberlain's career record in home runs as well as the season record of 30 before she graduates.

 

[TulsaWorld]

“If you can just kind of grasp the eliteness of this group to say, wow, we’re in the final four, but it just isn’t good enough because we’ve been there two years, that is something that’s indescribable,” Oklahoma coach Patty Gasso said. “I don’t know any other groups that have felt this.”

...

“I am just so thankful to have been a part of this program for the past four years,” Parker said between sniffles. “I’ve met lifelong friends. I’ve created relationships with people that will never be broken, and I’ve just had so much fun and I’ve been so blessed to have been coached by Coach Gasso and Coach (Melyssa) Lombardi and JT (Gasso). I’m just so blessed that they took a chance on me and have had confidence in me and believed in me.”

...

“They had their minds set that they were going to play (in the finals) on Monday, and I appreciate that,” Gasso said. “That’s why I love this team. That’s why it hurts, because two years straight we have not had to feel this, in a great way, but a weird way, an odd feeling to sit up here and feel emotional.”

Link

 

[SoonerSpock]

I think that the umpires were unable to see that the Washington right fielder made a catch in either situation. All the replays showed in the first instance the right fielder lost control of the ball when she hit the ground and after she spun around the ball was coming out. No way was it a fumble when taking the ball out of the glove to throw it. It was the third out. No need to throw the ball. Since the umpires didn't ever see the catch completed and the ball came out they only guessed that she got control of the ball as she spun.

In the second instance yesterday for whatever reason the right fielder caught the ball with the glover over the ball rather than under the ball. The next instant the glove hit the ground. No way the ball did not hit the ground. Also if you noticed she quickly reached under the glove with the other hand. Why do that if you have the ball secure.

In the first instance a questionable catch that they could not confirm and the second one no way a catch. Terrific defensive right fielder though. I think she was the defensive player of the year in the Pac-10.

we lost because Washington is a very good team and we failed repeatedly to get a hit with runners in scoring position. Romero's poor post season was particularly damaging. And we also had a lot of well hit balls go directly at a fielder. Those things even out over time.

We have a shot next year if the new pitcher coming in is as good as the hype and our returning pitchers improve. They are good now but not national championship good.

And I am taking the over on Alo passing Chamberlain's career record in home runs as well as the season record of 30 before she graduates.

I too think Alo will break all of Lauren's records if she can stay healthy. Of course Lauren's numbers would have been much greater had she been able to stay healthy. Health reduced her HR numbers from 60 for the first two years to 35 the last two years (12 and 23). Who knows she might have hit 120 if she could have stayed healthy.

It is also probable that Alo is going to get walked 70-80 times a season going forward which would be 20-30 fewer AB's/y. Chamberlain had 62 and 64 BB's her soph and senior seasons.

http://stats.ncaa.org/player/index?game_sport_year_ctl_id=11300&stats_player_seq=1304625

 

[sooner8693]

ok, so ou just finished the season 57-5 yes 57-5 and in the final four of softball on the biggest stage. Ou has won the ncaa title 3 out of 6 years now and by far is the best coach in softball. Quit the complaining and griping and over analyzing!!!!!

I do that to sherri but she deserves the complaints and over analyzing and griping because she has never won anything and has been awful for 5-7 years and is making a ton of money. She is not worth it and patty is worth every dime and maybe much more!!

amen!

 

[soonerstar]

OK, so OU just finished the season 57-5 yes 57-5 and IN the final four of softball on the biggest stage. OU has won the NCAA title 3 out of 6 years now and BY FAR is the Best coach in softball. QUIT THE COMPLAINING AND GRIPING AND OVER ANALYZING!!!!!

I do that to Sherri but she deserves the complaints and over analyzing and griping because she has never won ANYTHING and has been awful for 5-7 years and is making a ton of money. She is Not worth it and Patty is worth every dime and maybe much more!!

amen #2 about both statements regarding Gasso and Coale.

 

[35TangoTango]

I know Patty is the best coach in the business, but I can't help but wonder where we would be now if she hadn't been so quick to pull Parker in game 1.

 

[scrybe]

Best team won. Great season disappointing WCWS. Great pitching tht was adequate enough to win all three games. Defense and mental mistakes cost a couple runs total in the two losses but made some great plays to keep us in the game. The offense was a complete no show except for Alo and Mendes.

OU went 4-4 against Pac-12 teams this year and were shutout 4 times. Last year the Sooners were 3-2 against the Pac-12 and were shutout once. Pac-12 pitching shutout the Sooners 5 times in 13 games. I think not seeing enough quality pitching hurt this year's team but don't what Patty can do to fix the problem other than hope Texas and OSU get better pitchers and that is less than ideal.

Great season disappointing WCWS. Also you have to have some good luck to win it all and the breaks did not go our way the entire series except for a couple of K's that bounced off the back wall back to Wodach for outs at first.

Some obvious truths wrapped around a couple of hyperbolic statements that really had no bearing on OU's ultimate failure to three-peat.

First, the team that won was the team that was playing best at the time. Washington absolutely deserved to win Sunday, but, no, the Huskies, overall, are not better than OU.

And this business about Oklahoma not seeing enough quality pitching is totally irrelevant to how the Sooners performed offensively in the WCWS. Like sybarite said in his post, the Sooners have proved many times over that they can hit. Of course, no team will hit an elite pitcher as hard as they hit a second tier pitcher. But winning in D1 softball is about much more than hitting. Heck, just look at UCLA. Did the Bruins' all-world offense get them in the championship series?

You were right on in your first paragraph when you stated that poor defensive play and mental mistakes cost us the game. Of course you could have also pointed out that Washington's outstanding defensive play was also a contributing factor.

 

[scrybe]

We had an excellent team. Washington had some fortunate plays against us. That happens - and it impacts outcomes of games.

In the CWS we did not get key hits with people on base. That also was an issue at times in the regular season.

By the way, what have we learned about the seeding and RPI ratings? How many SEC teams were supposed to be among the very best? And how many made even the semifinal round? When you just play each other - who have inflated RPI ratings - that distorts your RPI. And misleads those who are not mathematically skilled enough to properly evaluate things.

Ding, Ding!! We have a winner.

And that last sentence gave me a chuckle, followed by a nod of understanding.

 

[SoonerSpock]

Ding, Ding!! We have a winner.

And that last sentence gave me a chuckle, followed by a nod of understanding.

The only SEC team to lose to a lower seeded team was Florida twice. The same number of times OU lost to a lower seeded team in the WCWS. Georgia was an underdog in both their losses.

The big RPI misses were #1 Oregon, #2 Florida, #3 UCLA and # 4 OU. That is 2 Pac-12 teams, 1 SEC and 1 Big-12.

 

[TheMont]

The only SEC team to lose to a lower seeded team was Florida twice. The same number of times OU lost to a lower seeded team in the WCWS. Georgia was an underdog in both their losses.

The big RPI misses were #1 Oregon, #2 Florida, #3 UCLA and # 4 OU. That is 2 Pac-12 teams, 1 SEC and 1 Big-12.

#4 OU technically finished in 4th place, for an accurate seeding.

 

[Speedy17]

#4 OU technically finished in 4th place, for an accurate seeding.

Wasn't UCLA the #3 seed so that one was accurate as well.

 

[bob the nailer]

Washington beat us because they made, or at least were credited with having made, the critical plays. We did not. Injuries, especially shay and syd, a huge factor but patty to her credit would never say that.

 

[SoonerSpock]

#4 OU technically finished in 4th place, for an accurate seeding.

You are correct both UCLA and OU finished per their RPI seeds. But both were upset by lower seeds twice. #4 OU to #5 Washington twice and #3 UCLA to #6 FSU twice. So yes while UCLA and OU finished per RPI seeds both teams failed to perform to their expected level in that both were upset twice by lower seeds.

But the RPI was correct with all 8 top seeds making the WCWS. It is a mild upset for the championship with the championship being played by the #5 and #6 seed but consistent with 72.5% of the WCWS finalists being from the top 8 over the last decade.

 

[BlackwellSooner]

Florida State beats Washington 1-0 in the first game of the Championships Series.

Leadoff solo dinger in the top of the 6th supplied all of the runs that the Noles needed. UW had the bases loaded in the bottom of the 3rd, one out, but left 'em loaded as Deponte and Thomas went down swinging.
Washington also came back down to earth with two errors in the first 3 innings, although the errors did not contribute to FSU scores.

I think that I am going to be rooting for the Noles to knock off the Huskies. I sure wish that the Sherrill girl playing for them had decided to play for OU. She is damned good!