Softball

[Speedy17]

For the life of me, we are forecasting doom without the seniors. They were the best class to ever come to OU but next year's team is not doomed.

As for Caleigh, she had a tremendous year but had a tough WCWS. I wish we had bunted with her given the slump she was in. I thought we should have used her to sacrifice Romero to third in the first inning. We would have had a good shot of scoring in the first inning. I also would not have minded a squeeze bunt after UCLA walked Romero in the fourth inning. There is little doubt that not many people will ever have the career that Caleigh had at OU - 2 national titles, 1 national runner up, and a top 4 finish, a second team All American, and a unanimous All American as a senior, 4 Big 12 titles, and 3 Big 12 Tournament titles.

As for next year, you have all the pitching back with Juarez, Lopez, and Saile. I have heard over last week that Vestal is most likely going to be good to go next season - Rocha talked her up in a pre-WCWS talk and she was there all the time including doing a lot of bullpens both at home and away during the season. You also have five freshmen pitchers coming in.

You got Elam at C, Lyons at Short, and I expect Green at 3B. Lyons will be the best SS ever at OU. It all depends on whether Hansen is completely healthy at C - she injured her knee which is why she dropped to #9 in the rankings. She is a generational catcher with a big bat. If she is healthy then she will catch otherwise she probably goes to 1B next year. Mendes and Alo will be back in the Outfield.

The bottomline is that is more coming back than OU had in 2016 and they won the title. They have to fill 1B, 2B, 3B, and LF. We know what Green can do. We also know that Hansen is a legit future superstar. In addition, the current pitching got them to the WCWS Championship Series.

 

[sybarite]

Doom? Not really. I figure that we'll still be the class of the Big Twelve. I don't think we will be in the last four next year. We have had a four-year run of title, title, last four, top two. Unless someone becomes a real ace that can stop another team, we really don't have a Parker or Ricketts (or Gascoigne). Rocha has some work to do.

But, if you want to get to the CWS, you either need a superstar pitcher or two, or you need a very solid lineup. Right now, we don't have a proven lineup. We didn't when Knighten and Romero were freshmen, but we knew their reputations. We expected them to be good solid 350 plus hitters with some pop. Aviu was a little less certain, and Clifton was a shock. I remember being irritated because she was in competition with Shay at second, and I wanted Shay's bat. Didn't know Shay could play first, and had no idea how good Caleigh was or would become.

Other than Kinzie, who do you believe will step up?

 

[Speedy17]

Doom? Not really. I figure that we'll still be the class of the Big Twelve. I don't think we will be in the last four next year. We have had a four-year run of title, title, last four, top two. Unless someone becomes a real ace that can stop another team, we really don't have a Parker or Ricketts (or Gascoigne). Rocha has some work to do.

But, if you want to get to the CWS, you either need a superstar pitcher or two, or you need a very solid lineup. Right now, we don't have a proven lineup. We didn't when Knighten and Romero were freshmen, but we knew their reputations. We expected them to be good solid 350 plus hitters with some pop. Aviu was a little less certain, and Clifton was a shock. I remember being irritated because she was in competition with Shay at second, and I wanted Shay's bat. Didn't know Shay could play first, and had no idea how good Caleigh was or would become.

Other than Kinzie, who do you believe will step up?

I think people are underestimating G. Juarez. Except for UCLA, she was dominating against everyone OU played this season down the stretch. She is an ace. The first Alabama game on Sunday was a problem because her team did not score for her at all so she pitched 9 innings and lost 1-0. So in the NCAA, she beat UMBC 12-0, Wisconsin 4-0, lost in relief of Saile to Wisconsin 1-2, Wisconsin 2-0, Northwestern 3-0, Northwestern 8-0, a hard hitting Alabama team 3-2, lost to Bama 0-1 in 9, and then lost to UCLA twice. I believe the small ball shook her in the first championship game. Except for the Championship Series, she pitched as well as any pitcher ever at OU. OU was in trouble defensively with a hobbling Shea at 1B because of her knee which created a vulnerability. There is going to be a lot of competition in the pitching area with 9 pitchers. I believe Vestal will be #2 next year with Lopez fading away. I was shocked at how wild Saile was in warmups and the WCWS. I thought we were in Bull Durham.

Just for the record, in 2015 at Bama, Parker gave up G1- 2 runs, G2 - 2 runs, and G3- 7 runs. In 2016 in the WCWS, Parker gave up G1 vs. Bama - 0 runs, G2 vs. Michigan - 5 runs, G3 vs. LSU - 3 runs, Game 4. vs. Auburn - 2 runs, and Game 6 vs. Auburn - 1 run and won them all. In 2017, in the WCWS, G1 vs. Baylor - Parker gave up 1 run unearned and Lowrey closed giving up 2 runs unearned, in G2 vs. Washington, Parker gave up 1 run in 6.1 and Lowrey closed, in G3 vs. Oregon, Parker gave up 2 runs in 5 and Lowrey closed, In G4 vs Florida, Parker gave up 3 runs in 6.2 and Lowrey gave up 2 runs in 10.1 and got the win, and in G5 vs. Florida, Parker gave up 3 runs in 1.2, and Lopez got the win giving up 1 run in 2.1, and Lowrey got the save giving up 0 runs in 2. In 2018, G1 vs. Washington, Parker gave up 1 run in 6, in G2 vs. Arizona State, Parker gave up 0 in 7 while Juarez gave up 1 run in 4 for ASU, in G3 vs. Florida, Parker gave up 0 in 7, and in G4 vs Washington, Parker gave up 1 run in 4.

My point is that the run G. Juarez was on this post season until that Finals vs. UCLA was absolutely dominating. She pitched as well as Paige ever pitched. Every bit the same as Paige Parker. Paige Parker is a legend because of the two titles. Juarez just needs a little help from a few others on the team fielding wise and the pitching staff. I had never seen OU commit three consecutive errors. People also forget that Juarez had faced UCLA in conference while she was at ASU so they had a great book on her. In 2017 as a Freshman, UCLA knocked Juarez out after 2 with her giving up 4 runs in a 12-3 win. However, last year, Juarez beat UCLA 3-0 with a 3 hit shutout striking out 9 and then lost to UCLA 1-2 on a walkoff in the 9th inning. In that game, Juarez gave up 6 hits with 8 Ks but gave up a walkoff home run.

I also believe that Green and Lyons will be improved dramatically next year though Green was a 2nd team AA this year. Led the Big 12 in batting and hrs in the conference. I also believe Alo will go back to being the Alo that we saw as a frosh.

 

[SoonerSpock]

From my perspective there was a couple of reasons for "G" ineffectiveness against UCLA. First she could/did not consistently get in front of the hitters a necessity for her to be effective. Virtually everyone hit against her by the bruins was when she was behind in the count. In the second game I know the count was 1-0 when they hit 3 of their dingers. 4 of the 5 hit off of "G" I know were on her flat curve about waist high over the plate.

Second "G" needs to develop a second out pitch with vertical movement. Perhaps a drop and make the curve more of a waist pitch than an out pitch. Also I point to Rocha in her pitch selection failing to recognize that "G" could not consistently get the curve by the bruin hitters as she consistently got the pitch over the white of the plate.

I don't think we will see it frequently in 2020 because most teams cannot hit like UCLA but those teams with quality hitters are going to attempt to implement the UCLA game plan against "G" and sit on the curve. It definitely worked for the bruins to the tune of 8 earned runs in 10.2 innings or a 5.25 era.

 

[Speedy17]

From my perspective there was a couple of reasons for "G" ineffectiveness against UCLA. First she could/did not consistently get in front of the hitters a necessity for her to be effective. Virtually everyone hit against her by the bruins was when she was behind in the count. In the second game I know the count was 1-0 when they hit 3 of their dingers. 4 of the 5 hit off of "G" I know were on her flat curve about waist high over the plate.

Second "G" needs to develop a second out pitch with vertical movement. Perhaps a drop and make the curve more of a waist pitch than an out pitch. Also I point to Rocha in her pitch selection failing to recognize that "G" could not consistently get the curve by the bruin hitters as she consistently got the pitch over the white of the plate.

I don't think we will see it frequently in 2020 because most teams cannot hit like UCLA but those teams with quality hitters are going to attempt to implement the UCLA game plan against "G" and sit on the curve. It definitely worked for the bruins to the tune of 8 earned runs in 10.2 innings or a 5.25 era.

Don't want to throw soft stuff to UCLA, they crush it.

 

[SoonerSpock]

The real question becomes did UCLA expose a vulnerability that will allow future OU opponents toeffectively replicate to varying degrees. I fear UCLA may have opened "G"'s pandora's box. But who knows. For certain time will tell.

 

[SuperHoops]

A guy over on DB says that UCLA either figured out that G was tipping her pitches or were stealing signs so they had an idea of what was coming.

 

[SoonerSpock]

A guy over on DB says that UCLA either figured out that G was tipping her pitches or were stealing signs so they had an idea of what was coming.

Always possible but I think one of the primary reasons for the numerical signs where the player must wear the information wristband is because they can easily change them periodically through out the game to avoid sign stealing.

Tipping her pitch is always possible but no one had ever figured that out over the 3 years so if she is tipping her pitch it is not obvious even to our own staff. I am more inclined to think is was a control issue with too may hittable pitches in the heart of the stike zone. That and the outstanding UCLA hitters that did not slump in the WCWS to the same degree as did OU. JMHO which is worth very little.

 

[sybarite]

From my perspective there was a couple of reasons for "G" ineffectiveness against UCLA. First she could/did not consistently get in front of the hitters a necessity for her to be effective. Virtually everyone hit against her by the bruins was when she was behind in the count. In the second game I know the count was 1-0 when they hit 3 of their dingers. 4 of the 5 hit off of "G" I know were on her flat curve about waist high over the plate.

Second "G" needs to develop a second out pitch with vertical movement. Perhaps a drop and make the curve more of a waist pitch than an out pitch. Also I point to Rocha in her pitch selection failing to recognize that "G" could not consistently get the curve by the bruin hitters as she consistently got the pitch over the white of the plate.

I don't think we will see it frequently in 2020 because most teams cannot hit like UCLA but those teams with quality hitters are going to attempt to implement the UCLA game plan against "G" and sit on the curve. It definitely worked for the bruins to the tune of 8 earned runs in 10.2 innings or a 5.25 era.

Agreed. Especially if your pitching depends on timing, movement, and location, your location needs to be good. G is not a great pitcher if she doesn't throw a first pitch strike. Actually, neither is Mariah.

I don't think it was tipping pitches. It was tendency. If G missed the plate on the first pitch (and she missed it badly on the first two hitters), she (Rocha?) has a tendency to come back in with a curve, a pitch that she has control over. UCLA sat on that curve, and she didn't hit corners with it. She was putting it right in the middle of a power zone. Looked like a beach ball.

When G kept the pitches around the knees, they seemed to swing at pitches in the dirt. It wasn't that every pitch was hittable. But, she threw a very hittable curve on 1-0.

 

[SuperHoops]

"Got a text from a legendary pitching coach this morning saying he DOES believe UCLA picked up a sign or a tell"

This was the quote from that guy. He says his daughter played college ball so he is well connected.

 

[SoonerSpock]

"Got a text from a legendary pitching coach this morning saying he DOES believe UCLA picked up a sign or a tell"

This was the quote from that guy. He says his daughter played college ball so he is well connected.

He could be dead on but I think it is more apt to be a tell. If OU thought the signs were being stolen they merely change cards and all the signs change. I know they normally do so a couple times a game. If they suspect the signs are being stolen they could easily change them every inning.

Remember even the OU players have to reference the wristband on every sign just to keep themselves straight.

 

[sybarite]

A poster on Robocoach says Lopez is gone from OU. If so, I wonder if Oregon might not have a better pitching staff next year? Lombardi used her as a freshman, and she got the win in the clincher against Florida.

 

[Speedy17]

A poster on Robocoach says Lopez is gone from OU. If so, I wonder if Oregon might not have a better pitching staff next year? Lombardi used her as a freshman, and she got the win in the clincher against Florida.

Next year's pitching staff was going to be crowded. There are five freshmen pitchers coming in and Vestal. That makes 9 pitchers. People are going to leave. OU's pitching staff will be loaded. Vestal was only the number 1 player in the country for 7 years until she hurt her hand. That is why she redshirted - the only redshirt that Patty has ever allowed.

 

[Eielson]

A poster on Robocoach says Lopez is gone from OU. If so, I wonder if Oregon might not have a better pitching staff next year? Lombardi used her as a freshman, and she got the win in the clincher against Florida.

Does that increase the chance of Vestal staying?

 

[sybarite]

Does that increase the chance of Vestal staying?

I have no idea.

If you go back a few years, Vestal's father was a poster on this board, and he and Brooke were huge OU fans. I hope they still are. She was very, very good at 14 and 15. If healthy, she might be very, very good now.

 

[sybarite]

I did not know that Mariah had a broken finger on her pitching hand during the CWS.

 

[Speedy17]

A poster on Robocoach says Lopez is gone from OU. If so, I wonder if Oregon might not have a better pitching staff next year? Lombardi used her as a freshman, and she got the win in the clincher against Florida.

She didn't exactly shut Florida down and wasn't in the game at the end.

 

[Speedy17]

Does that increase the chance of Vestal staying?

I will just pose this question. If Vestal was planning on leaving then don't you find it unusual that Rocha would talk about how well she is coming along before the WCWS. Vestal has been doing bullpen after bullpen for the past two months. She has been with the team all the way and was charting pitches in the dugout during the entire WCWS. That doesn't sound like someone who is getting ready to pack their bags. However, I don't think she would stay if there was NO CHANCE that she would see the mound next year. Clearly, Juarez will be #1 next year but the door is open for Vestal.

 

[SoonerSpock]

Next year's pitching staff was going to be crowded. There are five freshmen pitchers coming in and Vestal. That makes 9 pitchers. People are going to leave. OU's pitching staff will be loaded. Vestal was only the number 1 player in the country for 7 years until she hurt her hand. That is why she redshirted - the only redshirt that Patty has ever allowed.

I know of Macadoo, Nelson-Thiede and and Rains to be freshmen pitchers for 2020. Enlighten me please. Who are the other two freshmen pitchers?

http://www.soonersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=31000&ATCLID=211780583

 

[OURed]

I know of Macadoo, Nelson-Thiede and and Rains to be freshmen pitchers for 2020. Enlighten me please. Who are the other two freshmen pitchers?

http://www.soonersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=31000&ATCLID=211780583

I think several newcomers are utility player that have a little pitching experience. The only pitchers coming in are Macy McAdoo, Rains, and Nelson-Thiede.