Some way-too-early practice observations

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Let me preface this by saying:

I love the game, but I'm no expert. I'm wrong on predictions/comparisons more than I'm right. Nevertheless, I've watched about three hours of practice (online) the last two days and have some observations.

Sam and garyeb have watched a lot more than I have and probably have better informed opinions at this point, so go easy on me guys. :)

Oh yeah, I'm a glass half-empty kind of guy so take that into account when reading. Here we go.

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* First off, if you can you really need to take the time to watch a practice online. I'd watch every minute of every one if I could. Can't stop giving props to OU for making that happen. Incredible.

* Cam Clark looks to be an improved player. He's ballhawking more on the perimeter on defense and his jumpshot no longer has that knuckleball spin at times. He also looks to have matured more physically. Looks like a full grown man now.

* The first day I watched, Grooms wasn't consistent with his open jumper or his runners in the lane. The second day he didn't attempt any but had a good day driving to the rim and scoring. I'm really afraid his jumper is going to be what it has been. We'll see. Hope I'm wrong.

* Amath M'Baye is obviously very skilled and athletic, but he hasn't blown me away as the potential "one and done" player some have hinted at him being. He definitely shoots it well, has some nice low-post moves and is very athletic off the dribble too. When they have him inside, he's going get some nice tomahawks taking bigger guys off the dribble. He's also going to be very effective blocking shots helping out when he's the weakside defender down low. Have seen him flying across the lane to block shots at least five times in the two days I've watched. He has thrown up a couple of left-handed jump hooks that haven't been close. Good that he's working on it though.

* Hate to use cliches, but the freshmen guards are going to show flashes of being very good and also have those freshmen moments. But down the road these guys are going to be very good and they're all going to complement each other well on the court with the variances in their games. They also all really get after it on defense, have the quickness to be ballhawks out there and already show signs of being effective at it. They also all handle it well and don't seem bothered/hesitant when pressured defensively. Kind of like how Newell and Blair seemed scared at times bringing the ball up against a tight man coverage, and at times had to back their way up the floor with the ball. These guys aren't like that. They are versatile guards and will shake those situations.

* It's hard to say who's been the most impressive of the three freshmen guards. Cousins has had a lot of time at the point and handles it very well. He's never going to have any problems shaking a tough defender. Haven't seen him shoot it much in team situations, but he's money when going around the perimeter just catching and shooting in those drills. This may be a reach, but he looks like a better version of Bobby Maze. He's the slightest in build of the three but a legit 6-3 I think. I might not even be sold on that comparison myself, but thought I'd throw it out there.

* Have heard a lot about Hornbeak at the point, but in the time I've watched I've only seen Grooms and Cousins handling it. Fraschilla runs it for the walkon/redshirt team. Hornbeak is a guy who is just very solid all the way around. He can hit the open jumper, has some nice pull up moves in the lane and goes chest to chest defensively. He's gonna be a perfect glue guy on the perimeter. He can guard the wing, the two guard and the point. Again, very versatile.

* Buddy Hield is going to be the scorer of the freshmen. And his physique is definitely the most D-1 looking of the three, IMO. He can shoot it, drive it (with both hands) and surprisingly handles it very well shaking tough defenders on the perimeter and looks comfortable doing so. Hornbeak does that too. Saw him get into the lane multiple times off his left-handed dribble with good quickness. I think he's got something special and should step in and help pick up the scoring slack when Pledger leaves. He had some trouble with perimeter defense today off the dribble and Kruger was on him, but the quickness and agility is there and it shows at times as he fills lanes and gets steals. Hornbeak too.

* I'm sure this will be controversial, but here it goes anyway. Pledger, Osby, Fitz and Neal haven't shown much different than what I saw last year. And I'm not saying that in a bad way because they're good players. They just look the same to me. Fitz did step out and hit a couple three's today, so there's that. And Fitz works his ass off, there's no question about that, but he's still a step slow at times on defense and rebounding. Pledger was filling it up as usual, Osby is Osby and Neal was hot today hitting three's. But you know how that goes with him. They do have Neal playing inside almost exclusively. Not sure if that was the case last year or not. The last half of the season is a blur to me.

* Casey Arent doesn't look much different from last year either, in my limited view this week. Had a nice drop-step spin move for a bucket the other day that was encouraging when he got the ball in the post, then had a couple of layup opportunities today and blew them. Not sure what to think about him. Kruger was really encouraging him throughout today's practice.

* DJ Bennett is very athletic and is going to give good minutes off the bench defensively and get some garbage/fastbreak buckets. He's got a long wingspan and definitely can block/alter shots. His offensive game isn't anything special, but that's not going to be his role. Think Johnnie Gilbert type down the road. I've heard there's a chance he may redshirt, with the thinking that it would be a waste of a year for him to get just 5-10 spot minutes off the bench. I don't know. I think he would give this team better defensive minutes than Arent, but it seems that Casey may be ahead of him now.

* I really like what I've seen from Ryan Spangler. He's not just a rebounder, he's got some low post game and he converts opportunities when he has them under the basket. Runs pretty well, good passer, decent handles, decent jumper, really good footwork and touch catching it at the rim and quickly finishing. He's not going to be a superstar, but he'll be a very quality role guy off the bench and possibly even a starter down the road depending on how the recruiting class turns out. Had he been here last year, he would've been the first big off the bench and I believe would play over Bennett and Arent this year.

* C.J. Cole has got something. I can see why Davidson (and other schools of that kind) wanted him. He's a perfect player for those types. I could see him finding a role off the bench down the road. He's not the quickest guy out there, but he does everything well and can step out and shoot the three. He's much, much better than your average walk-on practice player.

* I haven't watched many D-1 practices in my day so maybe this is standard, but they seem to be focusing a lot and working on backdoor cuts when the defense overplays them on the perimeter. They also spent some time, defensively, on how to overplay and recover to prevent backdoor cuts. Also, in their defensive drills, they worked the bigs hard on denying the ball at all costs, even when their guy flashes out to the perimeter. Lots of fullcourt press work too. They are definitely going to be an aggressive defensive team. I thought they started out that way last year, then backed off once they lost Newell. I think they've got more quickness and depth to go back to that again this year if they want to.

* I'm really impressed with Lon Kruger's coaching style and how he's very encouraging in his criticism. Not in a Mack Brown clapper type way, but he just seems to make his point in a respectful/encouraging manner why still getting his point across. At one point, Fitz's man got open on the block, got the ball and hit a layup before he could fight threw a screen to get to him, and as he's running down the court Kruger is yelling, "Drew! Incredible! Drew!" Kruger also hits the court at the beginning of practice and chats with the fans and also gives the student female trainer a "How are you today?" as he walks buy. This is a hell of a coach and a hell of a nice guy. He's also mic'd up during practice so you can hear just about everything he says when watching online.

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Anyway, that's that. Again, these are total knee-jerk reactions to watching three hours of practice online. Not in person. I'm really hoping to take a practice in live on Thursday, and I'll be at the scrimmage Saturday too. They're off tomorrow I believe.
 
Tanks a bunch, OUH! That was a great report.

Thanks for creating and maintaining this board. I'm biased, but it's my favorite board out there.

-BT
 
* I'm sure this will be controversial, but here it goes anyway. Pledger, Osby, Fitz and Neal haven't shown much different than what I saw last year. And I'm not saying that in a bad way because they're good players. They just look the same to me. Fitz did step out and hit a couple three's today, so there's that. And Fitz works his ass off, there's no question about that, but he's still a step slow at times on defense and rebounding. Pledger was filling it up as usual, Osby is Osby and Neal was hot today hitting three's. But you know how that goes with him. They do have Neal playing inside almost exclusively. Not sure if that was the case last year or not. The last half of the season is a blur to me.

Talked to someone tonight about the above quote who has seen more practice and knows more than me, and they had this to say:

"Osby is tougher."

"Pledger is more aggressive."

"Fitz has lost some weight and has dunked the ball more already this practice than he had practice all last year."

Also, Buddy Hield will be hard to keep off the court once he learns team defense, and that Grooms has improved his jumper. Time will tell on that though.
 
Glad Hield is doing exactly what he was suppose to do. There was no doubt that he was the higher ceiling, more polished guard in this class. Not sure why he wasn't ranked higher, but I think he will be a good one. Been saying that since he committed to us.
 
Hield has really caught my eye. Very quick and agressive and has a nice shot. Cousins and Hornbeck have their moments but thier game is not as well defined as Hield. It is much harder to know how they will score, not that they won't but I don't think they have established it as well at this level as Hield.

I also think that Cole and Spangler have had their moments. I think both will eventually contribute.

Fitz is really hitting well. MBaye not as well but he looks like a good player.

I like what I have seen of the defensive pressure so far.
 
Talked to someone tonight about the above quote who has seen more practice and knows more than me, and they had this to say:

"Osby is tougher."

"Pledger is more aggressive."

"Fitz has lost some weight and has dunked the ball more already this practice than he had practice all last year."

Also, Buddy Hield will be hard to keep off the court once he learns team defense, and that Grooms has improved his jumper. Time will tell on that though.


Those little practice recaps that I've put up is something that I try to keep balanced. They are for OU fans that aren't in the position to make it to practice. I do have sharper opinions and I don't want to mix the two.

1) Osby- I don't know exactly what tougher means. It did take Osby a good while to get untracked last season. My expectation is that we will see the same Osby all season that we saw the last few games of last season. That Osby was pretty darned good.

2) Pledger- I would use the word intensity insted of aggressive. He has obviosly ratcheted up his effort level. I'll give him due credit and respect for that. But, my opinion on that is that it is about time he caught another gear. What was he waiting for? He is still a step slow and can not defend at a Big 12 level.

3) Fitz- every year he has made incremental improvement. It looks like he has done it again. Good for him. The team needed it.

4) Heild-Crutchfeil earned his pay when he got that one in the net. He has star power. I don't know how long it will take to manifest itself.

5) Grooms- I think what we saw for a spell last season was the low end of the range of his shooting abilities. He is capable of offering up better performances. But, not much. Relative to a typical Big 12 point guard,the kid can not shoot. But, he has improved as a player and is sure enough a nifty point guard.

The place my thinking has evolved after watching practices is in the area of shooting the basketball. Players that have good shooting days day after day is not common. After a lifetime of only watching games, I just hadn't clicked on that. Pledger in general and Fitz relative to bigs shoot the ball well day after day.

As flawed as they are in other areas, I do have a better understanding as to why Kruger has in the past and probably will in the near future feel the need to have them on the floor.
 
I'm sure this will be controversial, but here it goes anyway. Pledger, Osby, Fitz and Neal haven't shown much different than what I saw last year. And I'm not saying that in a bad way because they're good players. They just look the same to me. Fitz did step out and hit a couple three's today, so there's that. And Fitz works his ass off, there's no question about that, but he's still a step slow at times on defense and rebounding. Pledger was filling it up as usual, Osby is Osby and Neal was hot today hitting three's. But you know how that goes with him. They do have Neal playing inside almost exclusively. Not sure if that was the case last year or not. The last half of the season is a blur to me.

Not really controversial. Pledger and Fitz have limited athletic ability and dont really have high ceilings. They are role players. They are the type of guys that "are what they are", and huge improvement from them shouldnt really be expected.
 
Terrific report, OUH! I finally took the time to read it from start to finish. Enjoyed your analysis on each player, as well as the comparisons you made. :clap
 
Not really controversial. Pledger and Fitz have limited athletic ability and dont really have high ceilings. They are role players. They are the type of guys that "are what they are", and huge improvement from them shouldnt really be expected.

They have both received All Big XII honors so I don't know that I would call them role players. Fitz was All Big XII after his sophomore season and Pledger was last year.
 
They have both received All Big XII honors so I don't know that I would call them role players. Fitz was All Big XII after his sophomore season and Pledger was last year.

Denver.......it would be easy to call guys role players if that is what they would be on good teams. Fitz and Pledger are not awful and both have some skill but, lets be realistic, both have stood out on really average to below average teams the last couple of years. OU has not been good, particularly by OU standards. On a good team Pledger wouldnt be playing the minutes to be the scorer he was last year......he would definitely have value because of his shot but his lack of defensive quickness and other options on the bench (which OU didnt have last year but will this year) would have limited him some. Same with Fitz......he has some skill but some obvious deficiencies. Not saying they are awful.....just that the makeup of the previous roster skewed them and their value a little bit.

I am looking at a very similar situation at the college I coach at. We were not good last year (my first season as the head coach) and I brought in a large recruiting class that has more size and more athletic ability. Hence, only two guys in my previous varsity roster have a chance to be in our top ten. Guys who played major minutes for us last year, who led us in many statistical categories, will simply be role players. We are going to be much better for it.

I think a lot of guys on here are showing great loyalty to guys like Pledger and Fitz and I appreciate that. I just believe their roles will change with an upgraded roster and that is a big positive for the team overall. You should embrace it and feel great we are getting back to that point.
 
I agree with what you are saying but as a college coach you also know to run good offense, you need to be able to spread the floor. Pledgers ability to shoot from deep adds to his value for this team and will keep his minutes below 30 a game but still among the tops on the team. I think there is no doubt he starts, maybe not for other, better teams. He starts for us bc of how this team is built. We need him despite his warts.
 
I agree with what you are saying but as a college coach you also know to run good offense, you need to be able to spread the floor. Pledgers ability to shoot from deep adds to his value for this team and will keep his minutes below 30 a game but still among the tops on the team. I think there is no doubt he starts, maybe not for other, better teams. He starts for us bc of how this team is built. We need him despite his warts.

Exactly.

Without Pledger on the floor, we don't have anybody else that I would coin a "shooter." I think Cam can be decent, but he is going to be inconsistent, like he has been his whole time at OU. Cousins and Hornbeak aren't known as shooters. Hield has the potential to be a very good shooter, but I'm guessing they are going to retool his shot some, based on a very low release point in HS. If they don't, or even if they do alter his shot, I expect him to have ups and downs shooting the ball based on his lack of experience.

So even though I really like the options we have at the guard spots, Pledger is the only guy that is going to scare other teams from beyond the arc. That means something. It has value. It spreads the floor. It doesn't allow them to help off of Pledger. It gives them somebody they have to worry about at all times. Value.
 
I never said Pledger didnt have value. His shooting definitely brings something to the table........I think Pledger has proven his worth as a SHOOTER. I also believe that he has proven his deficiencies as a defender (or by his own admittance his tendency to save hjmself a little for the offensive end).....being a deeper team will alliw us to keep him fresh, throw different looks on the floor, and to become an overall better defensive team. I just think you see Pledger on the floor less minutes and he will be fresher the minutes he is on. To be honest, does it matter if he played 20 mpg starting or 20 minutes per game off the bench? He'll get his minutes either way. OU will be deeper and a better team regardless.
 
Pledger didn't say he saved himself for the offensive end. Your bias is showing.

He said he saved himself because he knew he was going to have to play nearly the entire game, especially the tight ones. He won't have to do that now. Instead of Blair coming in for him, he'll now have quality guys like Hield and Hornbeak behind him. He won't have to play every minute of the tight games, which means he can play harder on BOTH ends.

I don't think anybody on this board has suggested that Pledger's minutes won't drop some, and that that isn't a good thing. Most of the debating has been around whether he will start.
 
I agree. I just think his offense starts him on the floor. He'll play 25 minutes a game at least bc we need him too. I don't see our depth helping his D as much as his O. Fresher legs = better shooting. If he can improve his dribble drive game and get to the line more, I think he could be a '180' shooter. He should average a good solid and very efficient 15-16 points in less mins.
 
Pledger didn't say he saved himself for the offensive end. Your bias is showing.

He said he saved himself because he knew he was going to have to play nearly the entire game, especially the tight ones. He won't have to do that now. Instead of Blair coming in for him, he'll now have quality guys like Hield and Hornbeak behind him. He won't have to play every minute of the tight games, which means he can play harder on BOTH ends.

I don't think anybody on this board has suggested that Pledger's minutes won't drop some, and that that isn't a good thing. Most of the debating has been around whether he will start.

Ok...i will admit one oversight...he admittedly didnt say he was saving himself for the offensive end.....but even you should be able to admit that Pledger is an offense first guy.....he isnt a defender (probably average to below) so he PROBABLY wasnt saving himself so he could try harder on the defensive end. Im smart enough to know he meant to just conserve his energy but my point isnt a 'bias' as you seem to think. Im not AGAINST Pledger or think he shouldnt be on the floor at all. I simply know enough about the game to know that his ppg average last year doesnt make him so great that a frosh couldnt beat him out or take minutes from him. It isnt going to hurt my feelings if Pledger starts, or even if he plays 30 minutes a game.....my post was simply an observation and you seem to think it is some kind of personal vendetta against Pledger or something. I just pointed out that we have been a mediocre team for a while now and being the leading scorer on a mediocre team doesnt make you a great player. Pledger is a fantastic shooter but if you put him on a GOOD team (Kansas, UK, UNC, UCONN, etc) he would simply be a role player...are you old enough to remember Dave Sieger?

Dont take someone else's observation so personal.
 
I agree with what you are saying but as a college coach you also know to run good offense, you need to be able to spread the floor. Pledgers ability to shoot from deep adds to his value for this team and will keep his minutes below 30 a game but still among the tops on the team. I think there is no doubt he starts, maybe not for other, better teams. He starts for us bc of how this team is built. We need him despite his warts.

I definitely love shooters and think he brings a lot to the table. I agree that he could be as productive as last year with less minutes by staying fresh....another reason the freshmen could bring a lot to the group. Im just not hung up on whether he should or should not start. I just want him to be effective when he is on the floor period. IF he doesnt start I dont think it is a bad thing.....it means the freshmen are better than expected and that is great......if he starts and the freshmen just give the bench a big boost then THAT is great.....either way we are a better team.
 
Dave Sieger was a starter on a great basketball team. Are you comparing Pledger to Sieger? He was a role player prior to that season, I agree. He was an excellent defender too. I'll offer this. Larry Bird once described himself as a role player on those great Celtic teams. He said his role was to score 25-30 points a night. If you will allow, Pledger plays a similar role on this team. None of the FR can contribute his shooting, his point avg, or offensive efficiency. We need him. Doesn't make him a great player just a very important player to this squad.
 
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