The Civil Willie Warren Discussion Thread

[SoonerfanTU]

I remember posters saying last year we didn't goto the hole nearly enough. Now WW is doing and its not impressive?

Come on Quick, read what I wrote. I didn't speak a word about how impressive or unimpressive Willie is going to the hole. All I said is that I'm not going to give him props for getting up off the floor and not reacting to the ORDINARY fouls that were called.

 

[buttermaker1]

Loved Willie yesterday he won the game for us. He needs to take it to the hole from the opening whistle. Could get an entire team in foul trouble with his drive to the basket. His ability to get ot the rim is amazing. Stop the 25 foot jumpers and take it to the hole every time Willie can't be stopped.

Not going to talk about his fighting around/over screens to guard a shooter this is Civil.

 

[seniorsooner]

I'm not sure what went on with this drama as I wasn't here but it baffles me why people would dog out willie. I think we all need to learn to take Willie as he is. Like manny ramirez sometimes it is just "Willie being Willie". Does he pout at times? Yes. Is he an attention hog at times? Yes. Has he made some big plays for us this year at the end of games? Absolutely. What I like about Willie is that in games like yesterday and also the Arkansas game his shot was not falling yet he still stepped up and made plays for us down the stretch. I really don't care to debate his NBA potential or whether or not he is better than former Sooners that have played the same position. I'm not quite sure what that accomplishes.

 

[MO]

I'm late posting to this thread but will give some random thoughts.....

• He has a great body. From all my years of refereeing I think people underestimate bulk and strength more than any physical attribute ...... and Willie has that
• His outside shot has been off this year and that has frustrated him. Remember Texas on the road last year and the KU game? Willie carried those games with his sharp shooting.
• He still has a lot of work to do with his handles ..... particularly as a PG
• He is a good passer when playing the point
• It's difficult to double a perimeter player .... they can trap, but it's not the same as defenders doubling Blake in the post last year.
• Willie's fallback when his outside shot isn't falling and our offense is stagnant is to take the ball to the hole. He's strong enough to do it almost at will.
• The other teams have scouting reports and they collapse and sometimes strip him of the ball when he takes it to the glass ...... they know his tendencies. Give them credit.
• That ability to go the hole will really help him in the NBA
• Going to the line 12 times is a lot. You're not going to get a lot more calls than than from the referees especially when he initiates a lot of the contact.
• I think a lot of the attitude comes from being disgusted with himself .... not the referees or teammates.
• We would be in deep trouble without him. Somebody needs to take over when the going gets tough. He and TMG do that best in crunch time.
• I like that he shows some emotion but he does sometimes pout.
• The one time I talked to him last year I thought he was about 6'2". It's tough to take it over someone 7'3" unless you out-muscle them.

Best Willie Warren analysis on this board.

 

[DenverSooner]

NONSENSE!!!!!

What are you basing the "best" on? There is no way that is a true statement. I can think of a handful of guards I'd take over Willie, all which played since I've been old enough to follow OU basketball. And don't you mention the NBA, or his potential draft position, b/c that means NOTHING about how good he's been in college.

Name them. I would call a handful 4 to 5 but you tell us what a handufl is and name them. I have been watching OU basketball intently for well over 20 years. I will give you a list of some of the best ever to help you.

Tim McCallister
Rickey Grace
Mookie Blaylock
Terry Evans
Brent Price
Nate Erdman
Corey Brewer
Nolan Johnson
Hollis Price
Quannas White
Drew Lavendar
Terrell Everett

Other notable perimeter players:

Ryan Minor
Skeeter Henry
Damon Patterson
Angelo Hamilton
Jackie Jones
Ebi Ere

But I would call those guys small forwards

That is a fairly inclusive list of guards at OU over the last 20+ years that were standouts. If I left someone off, feel free to add them to the list. Now pick your handfull and tell us how they are better than Willie Warren and why even though they were better they were not lottery picks and did not play in the NBA (Mookie and Brent Price played in the NBA, Erdmann and Brewer got some looks in the NBA).

 

[SoonerfanTU]

Do you really want me to go through that list and name who'd I'd select over Willie? Are you really going to be in a position to question very many of them?

 

[SoonerNorm]

Name them. I would call a handful 4 to 5 but you tell us what a handufl is and name them. I have been watching OU basketball intently for well over 20 years. I will give you a list of some of the best ever to help you.

Tim McCallister
Rickey Grace
Mookie Blaylock
Terry Evans
Brent Price
Nate Erdman
Corey Brewer
Nolan Johnson
Hollis Price
Quannas White
Drew Lavendar
Terrell Everett

Other notable perimeter players:

Ryan Minor
Skeeter Henry
Damon Patterson
Angelo Hamilton
Jackie Jones
Ebi Ere

But I would call those guys small forwards

That is a fairly inclusive list of guards at OU over the last 20+ years that were standouts. If I left someone off, feel free to add them to the list. Now pick your handfull and tell us how they are better than Willie Warren and why even though they were better they were not lottery picks and did not play in the NBA (Mookie and Brent Price played in the NBA, Erdmann and Brewer got some looks in the NBA).

IMO, Mookie is the best player on that list. I would say that Willie is as good or better offensive player but Mookie is the better defensive player. Willie is better than the rest of the players listed.

Edit to say that Mookie played his junior and senior years at OU while Willie is only a sophomore. If Willie stayed and played his jr. and sr. years, he might rank above Mookie.

 

[MO]

Yes, I think that would be interesting.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

even though they were better they were not lottery picks and did not play in the NBA (Mookie and Brent Price played in the NBA, Erdmann and Brewer got some looks in the NBA).

First, you tell me how Taylor Griffin was a better college player than Hollis Price or Aaron McGee.

You do that, and I'll name the guys I like from that list better than Willie. If you can't do the above, then you need to admit that your comment that I quoted above is bunk. Because it is.

 

[DenverSooner]

First, you tell me how Taylor Griffin was a better college player than Hollis Price or Aaron McGee.

You do that, and I'll name the guys I like from that list better than Willie. If you can't do the above, then you need to admit that your comment that I quoted above is bunk. Because it is.

Taylor Griffin was a better rebounder than both McGee and Price. Taylor was better at running the floor than McGee. In fact, the only thing McGee did better than Taylor is a turn around baseline jump shot. Now McGee did that really well, no doubt about that.

Hollis Price was a better college player than Taylor Griffin but that is irrelevant to whether Willie Warren is the best guard to play at OU. If you asked 100 knowledgeable people to name the best guard ever at OU, Willie would probably get named the most and the only competition would be Mookie Blaylock.

 

[DenverSooner]

IMO, Mookie is the best player on that list. I would say that Willie is as good or better offensive player but Mookie is the better defensive player. Willie is better than the rest of the players listed.

Edit to say that Mookie played his junior and senior years at OU while Willie is only a sophomore. If Willie stayed and played his jr. and sr. years, he might rank above Mookie.

I doubt Willie will be a better defensive player than Mookie ever, but he is/will be a better player than Mookie. Mookie was darn good and I think a reasonable person could contend he is the best backcourt player ever at OU (I think they would be wrong); however TU is claiming there were a handful of better players and that is nonsense.

 

[SoonerNorm]

I doubt Willie will be a better defensive player than Mookie ever, but he is/will be a better player than Mookie. Mookie was darn good and I think a reasonable person could contend he is the best backcourt player ever at OU (I think they would be wrong); however TU is claiming there were a handful of better players and that is nonsense.

Yeah, I know that is what his opinion is but it seems clear to me that Willie is one of the top 2 guards to have played at OU in the last 30 years...Mookie of course being the other.

 

[buttermaker1]

Brent Price was pretty good and played in the NBA for many years. People forget how good of an athlete he was.

 

[Sooner Quick]

Yeah, I know that is what his opinion is but it seems clear to me that Willie is one of the top 2 guards to have played at OU in the last 30 years...Mookie of course being the other.

I agree Norm

I also agree with buttermaker about Brent Price! He is one of the most forgotten and underrated players at OU.

 

[usedtobe1]

Willie kind of reminds me of a right-handed version of Nolan Johnson...... strong enough and quick enough to overpower some post players, even as a guard.

 

[jaymOU]

Here is my two cents to this debate/discussion -

Willie is a tremendous college basketball player. I would prefer this attitude be different from time to time, but he is 20-years old. My attitude at 20 is considerably different than it is now. I believe he has, at least at the start of this season, acquiesced to his teammates in an effort to get them involved, much like he did when I watched some of his high school games.

The more salient debate to me is can Willie or should Willie go pro after this season. Here are some of my pros and cons for this discussion

Pros

Body - he has an NBA body now
Ability to get to the rim - can take a lot of people of the dribble
Athleticism - very good athlete

Cons

Right-hand dominate - has a hard time using his left hand around the rim. Watch the Utah game, he consistently got his shot blocked by trying to finish with the wrong hand at the rim.

Shot - he does shoot the ball well, but his starts too low and he has some trouble getting it off over bigger guards, which he will face in the NBA

Handles - for someone as athletic as him, he turns the ball over off the bounce more than an NBA - type guard probably should

When I look at the pros and cons, I really think Capel could make a compelling argument for WWIII to come back for another year. He may be a lottery pick, but I really don't think so for now.

I would LOVE to have him back, he is a special talent and has the ability to dominate games at this level. Think of this team with him next year. WOW

 

[FaithfulSooner]

Usedtobe1 I think that your post is about as close as it gets on WW. Great post man. All I know is that I'm glad this guy is on our team. WW will rise to the challenge. All this negativity that some are saying about him is just jibberish. WW has come a long way on and off the court. This is a growing and learning experience for this young man. BOOMER SOONER BABY!!!:clap

 

[DenverSooner]

I agree Norm

I also agree with buttermaker about Brent Price! He is one of the most forgotten and underrated players at OU.

Brent Price was really good but he could not take over a game like WW can. Mookie couldn't either. Mookie could change a game with steals but WW can flat out take over. I have never seen an OU guard do that before.

 

[NickZepp]

Brent Price was really good but he could not take over a game like WW can. Mookie couldn't either. Mookie could change a game with steals but WW can flat out take over. I have never seen an OU guard do that before.

Hollis Price could at at times. Maybe not the way Willie can but he would hit so many big shots and he didn't need much of an opening to hit mid range 2s also. I think there was one against Kansas where he was just amazing.

 

[Sooner Quick]

Brent Price was really good but he could not take over a game like WW can. Mookie couldn't either. Mookie could change a game with steals but WW can flat out take over. I have never seen an OU guard do that before.

In no way was I saying he was better than WW, I was just agreeing that Brent is one of the most forgotten players at OU who was really good. I would still have Mookie slightly ahead of WW but that will probably change by seasons end.