Thoughts on MBB players getting

[WTSooner]

Not being able to seek your chosen vocation in your country is not exactly a viable alternative.

I didn't like that I had to move to Texas (practically another country) to find good work out of college either, but I did it.

I say that in jest, but for one or two years, I don't think you can complain. Maybe boca needs to set up a viable professional league in the states that would be an option.

 

[WTSooner]

The goal is achieve a few things, in my opinion.

1.) Keep college sports as the official pipeline into the professional leagues.
2.) Maintain academic integrity.
3.) Reward athletes who generate millions of dollars for their schools.

Your suggestion violates #1. If it became mainstream for all the best players to go to Italy that would hurt college basketball. It would hurt the schools. They would sell less tickets. They would have fewer fans. They would sell fewer jerseys, posters, etc.

What is the difference between watching Kentucky and Duke play vs watching Tulsa and ORU play? The quality of player, of course. The reason "mid major" schools don't fill the seats in football or basketball is because their players aren't as good and it is therefore less fun to watch.

If Tulsa pulled in a Kentucky-quality recruiting class next year they would fill the seats and generate national interest from ESPN, etc. All of which results in revenue.

If this premise is true, then it is the player that is generating revenue for the school. If Kentucky put the exact same team that ORU has on the floor next year, not even Ashley Judd would show up. If the quality of player is responsible for the revenue stream, they are entitled to profit in one way or another from that.

Free school and a dorm room is not sufficient compensation. A lot of these guys are broke, and other people are profiting millions from their ability.

And, it won't be equal. Suzy from the equestrian team will not make any money, because she doesnt generate any. The 4th string nose-tackle will not make any money. But if you are a star and Nike wants to put you in a commercial, damn right you should be able to do that. If you are Cam Newton at Auburn and Body Armour wants to release a new shoe called "Body Armour Cam Newtons", you sign a million dollar deal and move on.

I'm sorry, but nobody "profited millions" from Wiggins being in school at KU for one year. That is ridiculous.

And I'm not against improving the average scholarship for football and maybe basketball. If there needs to be a little spending money handed out for things like clothes/off campus meals/laundry, then fine. But anything more than say, the $5k (I assume per year?) amount I've seen thrown about is just silly.

 

[thebigabd]

I'm sorry, but nobody "profited millions" from Wiggins being in school at KU for one year. That is ridiculous.

And I'm not against improving the average scholarship for football and maybe basketball. If there needs to be a little spending money handed out for things like clothes/off campus meals/laundry, then fine. But anything more than say, the $5k (I assume per year?) amount I've seen thrown about is just silly.

Joel Embiid and Andrew Wiggins allow Kansas to win. If KU doesnt win, people dont buy tickets. It becomes like OU football under John Blake. Half empty stadium. Bill Self gets fired if he doesnt win, he cant win at a high level without players like Embiid and Wiggins. Donors stop giving. The cameras stop rolling. They don't get Big Monday games anymore, they can't lure Mississippi Valley State to come get beat by 60 points for a million dollars anymore.

Lot's of people and the university profit from the talent on the floor.

 

[WTSooner]

Joel Embiid and Andrew Wiggins allow Kansas to win. If KU doesnt win, people dont buy tickets. It becomes like OU football under John Blake. Half empty stadium. Bill Self gets fired if he doesnt win, he cant win at a high level without players like Embiid and Wiggins. Donors stop giving. The cameras stop rolling. They don't get Big Monday games anymore, they can't lure Mississippi Valley State to come get beat by 60 points for a million dollars anymore.

Lot's of people and the university profit from the talent on the floor.

But you can't put that on one athlete. Sure, if Wiggins isn't there, KU either a) doesn't win as much last year, or b) finds another good basketball player, and still wins a bunch of games. But even if they didn't win as much last year, they'd just go out and find another kid this year, and pick right back up.

How do you value a one season of one athlete, when KU has been winning a crap load of basketball games since probably before I was born?

 

[snydrosooner]

Joel Embiid and Andrew Wiggins allow Kansas to win. If KU doesnt win, people dont buy tickets. It becomes like OU football under John Blake. Half empty stadium. Bill Self gets fired if he doesnt win, he cant win at a high level without players like Embiid and Wiggins. Donors stop giving. The cameras stop rolling. They don't get Big Monday games anymore, they can't lure Mississippi Valley State to come get beat by 60 points for a million dollars anymore.

Lot's of people and the university profit from the talent on the floor.

What are you considering profit? Gross or after expenses. OK, so part of what Wiggins for example generates goes to Bill Self salary, part goes to the electric bill for both games and the times Wiggins is putting in extra work at the gym or weight room. Also don't forget all the security at the facility protecting Wiggins, trainers helping him when injured or just taping ankles, tutors working with him. This could go on and on.

Wiggins definitely brings in money to the school, but it has to be distributed to a lot of people and other expenses. Does Wiggins deserve some, probably, but as mentioned before, most basketball teams due not break even from the expenses. Ankle tape is not cheap you know.

There are going to be teams that find away for players to get endorsements as recruiting promises. The local car dealership ad. This will become a slippery slope if allowed.

 

[snydrosooner]

The goal is achieve a few things, in my opinion.

1.) Keep college sports as the official pipeline into the professional leagues.
2.) Maintain academic integrity.
3.) Reward athletes who generate millions of dollars for their schools.

Your suggestion violates #1. If it became mainstream for all the best players to go to Italy that would hurt college basketball. It would hurt the schools. They would sell less tickets. They would have fewer fans. They would sell fewer jerseys, posters, etc.

What is the difference between watching Kentucky and Duke play vs watching Tulsa and ORU play? The quality of player, of course. The reason "mid major" schools don't fill the seats in football or basketball is because their players aren't as good and it is therefore less fun to watch.

If Tulsa pulled in a Kentucky-quality recruiting class next year they would fill the seats and generate national interest from ESPN, etc. All of which results in revenue.

If this premise is true, then it is the player that is generating revenue for the school. If Kentucky put the exact same team that ORU has on the floor next year, not even Ashley Judd would show up. If the quality of player is responsible for the revenue stream, they are entitled to profit in one way or another from that.

Free school and a dorm room is not sufficient compensation. A lot of these guys are broke, and other people are profiting millions from their ability.

And, it won't be equal. Suzy from the equestrian team will not make any money, because she doesnt generate any. The 4th string nose-tackle will not make any money. But if you are a star and Nike wants to put you in a commercial, damn right you should be able to do that. If you are Cam Newton at Auburn and Body Armour wants to release a new shoe called "Body Armour Cam Newtons", you sign a million dollar deal and move on.

College sports is not supposed to be a pipeline for the pros. I agree its used that way, but that is not the purpose. And high school athletes can play in the NDBL for one year if they choose. They only have to go overseas to make the better money then the NDBL.

How about for BBALL a NBA team can select a high school kid, but he has to go to the NBDL for a year. That way they can be paid more but are not being forced to go to college.

 

[StatGeek]

College sports is not supposed to be a pipeline for the pros. I agree its used that way, but that is not the purpose. And high school athletes can play in the NDBL for one year if they choose. They only have to go overseas to make the better money then the NDBL.

How about for BBALL a NBA team can select a high school kid, but he has to go to the NBDL for a year. That way they can be paid more but are not being forced to go to college.

Nobody is being forced to go to college, it is a choice. The reason players don't go over seas in mass or try to get in the NBDL is because the CURRENT college basketball compensation model is more valuable for 99.9999% of players. Additionally, most players understand that playing little league sports, high school sports and professional sports is a privilege, not a right.

The college compensation model affords athletes access to world class training, exposure, invaluable networking opportunities, word class instruction, oh and a "free education". If there were compensation issues with the current model we would see more than 0.5% of the highest level recruits pursue other avenues.

 

[bocabull]

I seriously doubt it was even an issue of the case whether or not the players were amateurs. Link the opinion, I will read it.

Here you go. The players at the top programs already get better coaching & facilitates. Now they are going to get extra monetary compensation too. A guy like Tiny Gallon won't be forced out anymore.

link

 

[Max Power]

What are you considering profit? Gross or after expenses. OK, so part of what Wiggins for example generates goes to Bill Self salary, part goes to the electric bill for both games and the times Wiggins is putting in extra work at the gym or weight room. Also don't forget all the security at the facility protecting Wiggins, trainers helping him when injured or just taping ankles, tutors working with him. This could go on and on.

Wiggins definitely brings in money to the school, but it has to be distributed to a lot of people and other expenses. Does Wiggins deserve some, probably, but as mentioned before, most basketball teams due not break even from the expenses. Ankle tape is not cheap you know.

There are going to be teams that find away for players to get endorsements as recruiting promises. The local car dealership ad. This will become a slippery slope if allowed.

This is the part I have issue with. Don't tell me the program is hurting for money then they pay Bill Self over 3 million a year. they can pay players out of his salary he earns in part from how good the players are.

 

[campbest]

Administration and overhead costs are too high.

Sorry, but a system that prides itself on "amateurism" can't be paying a head coach $5mm/yr...and some assistants are making $1mm+?

Please.

 

[MNsooner]

I think to answer the original question, it depends on who is using their likeness. If the university is using players in promotional material, I think that is completely fair. I don't think the university or the NCAA should be able to sell the the players likeness to a third party though. For example, I've always thought it was unfair that the NCAA (or universities?) could sell a player's likeness to a video game company without giving that player any control over his image or any money.

 

[snydrosooner]

This is the part I have issue with. Don't tell me the program is hurting for money then they pay Bill Self over 3 million a year. they can pay players out of his salary he earns in part from how good the players are.

I definitely agree. Coaches make to much for the college game.

 

[sperry]

College sports is not supposed to be a pipeline for the pros. I agree its used that way, but that is not the purpose. And high school athletes can play in the NDBL for one year if they choose. They only have to go overseas to make the better money then the NDBL.

How about for BBALL a NBA team can select a high school kid, but he has to go to the NBDL for a year. That way they can be paid more but are not being forced to go to college.

Artificial salary impositions in the NBDL make it not a viable alternative. Players that are clearly worth a lot of money aren't allowed to earn that money.

 

[SilliSooner]

I definitely agree. Coaches make to much for the college game.

So all of this, the O'Bannon case, resulted from a coach, Coach K, who made too much from the college game wanting to make even more by fronting a video game featuring college players?

The irony runs rich, when you factor greed to payback. Coach K wants to be a mini John Madden and the result is all the schools losings big bucks on their athletic programs are going to have to pay out even more from his greed.

I would think that whenever the University presidents get together and Coach K wants to join them for coffee and drinks, they'll make Mike pick up the tab.

 

[snydrosooner]

So all of this, the O'Bannon case, resulted from a coach, Coach K, who made too much from the college game wanting to make even more by fronting a video game featuring college players?

The irony runs rich, when you factor greed to payback. Coach K wants to be a mini John Madden and the result is all the schools losings big bucks on their athletic programs are going to have to pay out even more from his greed.

I would think that whenever the University presidents get together and Coach K wants to join them for coffee and drinks, they'll make Mike pick up the tab.

I just think when you are dealing with amateur athletes ( and I consider college football and basketball amateurs) that coaches should not be compensated as high as they are from the universities (remember most universities are state run which makes them state employees). I am not saying Bob Stoops or Coach K should not go out and get endorsements to increase there salary, but when dealing with college or highschool kids, there should be a limit. Now what is the limit, I don't know the answer to that.

Sometime in the grand scheme of things the dollar value for NCAA sports was making just went way above what anyone thought it would be and the rules and regulations have not caught up causing all this issues. O'Bannon did not attempt to go after the NCAA till way after his playing carrer even though the video games, jersey sales in question were around while he was still playing. Why, cause the money is a lot higher now then it was then. Its all about the $ value.

 

[WTSooner]

I just think when you are dealing with amateur athletes ( and I consider college football and basketball amateurs) that coaches should not be compensated as high as they are from the universities (remember most universities are state run which makes them state employees). I am not saying Bob Stoops or Coach K should not go out and get endorsements to increase there salary, but when dealing with college or highschool kids, there should be a limit. Now what is the limit, I don't know the answer to that.

I think you'd see correlation between lower salaries for those at schools that take more state money. I'm under the impression that most of Bob's salary is paid out of the football program, not from state money. But at a school with a lesser football program, that doesn't support itself and relies on state money, that school's coach probably makes less.

 

[bocabull]

I just think when you are dealing with amateur athletes ( and I consider college football and basketball amateurs) that coaches should not be compensated as high as they are from the universities.

The players are not amateurs. They are just paid professionals without any bargaining power. The NCAA arbitrarily and independently limits their compensation, increasing it little by little when their "student-athlete" gravy train is threatened.

The NCAA in their sole discretion does not have the legal authority to define the word amateur.

 

[snydrosooner]

The players are not amateurs. They are just paid professionals without any bargaining power. The NCAA arbitrarily and independently limits their compensation, increasing it little by little when their "student-athlete" gravy train is threatened.

The NCAA in their sole discretion does not have the legal authority to define the word amateur.

So how are they not amateurs? From my understanding, and I actually did a college research report on amateurism, most definitions state you can be compensated but not I a monetary way. Such as for a golf tournament such as the US open, they can help pay for you way there, your room and board, but they cannot pay you out any winnings if you should qualify for any. ( Pros do have to pay there own expenses there, I have a friend who qualified to play as an amateur and the event paid most of his expenses.) This sounds familiar to the college football and basketball setup. They pay your way into school, they pay your travel to the events (games) pay room and board. The players don't get to share in any winnings from the game. Such as bowl game shares that go the the school and conference. Seems fairly similar.

I have no gripes if players got extra money for their participation in sports. But I think to many people just look at the money being made and say players should have some without thinking is all the way through.

What about the Olympics. the Olympics makes a ton of money, although some athletes are professionals, they don't get a share of what the Olympics bring in.