Twisting Knobs and Pulling Levers

[hoopsaustin]

I think I agree with you.

The talent is there for a coach like Kelvin. For a coach like LK, he needs more talent than this to win playing the style he coaches.

I'd like to see OU with a coach like Kelvin, b/c it's hard to consistently get top talent here. We need a system and a program that our based on toughness, defense, and consistency. LK coaches like he's still coaching the Hawks.

Or coaching buddy, woodard, cousins, spangler, freshman lattin

 

[steverocks35]

LMAO at "freshman Lattin"

 

[thebigabd]

I do not believe talent is the problem.
I believe Kelvin would take this team and win every home game and finish in the top 3 in the conference.

Disagree... talent has been and is a problem. Especially depth. A claim WichitaSooner sticks to is that depth isn't that big a deal beyond 7 or 8 players, but I think OU is only getting legit contribution from 6. Let us take a look at some Sampson teams (not the final 4 team)....

2003 Sooners
PG: Quannas White
SG: Hollis Price
SG: Ebi Ere
PF: Kevin Bookout
C: Jabarhi Brown

Bench:

Jason Detrick
D'Angelo Alexander
Johnny Gilbert
Jozsef Szendrei

1999 Sooners
PG: Michael Johnson
SG: JR Raymond
SG: Eric Martin
PF: Eduardo Najera
PF: Ryan Humphrey

Bench
Tim Heskett
Kelley newton
Renzi Stone
Alex Spaulding
Victor Avila

Compare the 1999 team to this years team...

PG: Harmon... SG: Bieniemy... SG: Reaves... PF: Doolittle.... PF: Manek.

That 1999 team, which only won 22 games, would wipe the floor with this years team. Heskett and Newton would probably be starting on this years team..The 2003 team would beat this years team by 40 points.

One more... the 2005 team.

PG: Drew Lavender
SG: Terrell Everett
SG: Lawrence Mckenzie
PF: Kevin Bookout
PF: Taj Gray

Bench

David Godbold... Longar Longar... Jaison Williams... Johnnie Gilbert... Brandon Foust.

They would wipe the floor with these guys...

1998 Team...

PG: Michael Johnson
SG: Corey Brewer
SG: Eric Martin
PF: Eduardo Najera
C: Evan "Hootie" Wiley

Bench

Ryan Humphrey, Renzi Stone, Tim Heskett, Robert Allison

Again... that team would wipe the floor with this years team.

 

[WTSooner]

big, you are forgetting that most of us think Kelvin, or any other coach like him, would be getting more out of the guys that are struggling. He'd have Reaves coming off screens. Like, a lot of them. He'd have a field day finding shots for Doo/Manek. If JB and Harmon were lost causes, he'd run the offense in a way where that didn't hurt the team as much, and those guys weren't forced to take a lot of shots. I think he'd have Williams playing better, and likely the bigs. The bigs he'd have focusing on defense and rebounding. They wouldn't even waste time right now on offensive moves that they might never master.

Not saying this would be one of his better teams, but he'd have them towards the top of the conference, and playing better ball. They'd certainly be better than Ken Pom's #56 on defense, if for no other reason, than he'd know this team would have to live by their defense.

Funny how everybody LOVED the length of this team, yet they still play poorly on D and don't rebound. Length = very overrated. Same with athleticism. Both without skill, toughness, and want-to, don't mean very much.

 

[WichitaSooner]

I think I agree with you.

The talent is there for a coach like Kelvin. For a coach like LK, he needs more talent than this to win playing the style he coaches.

I'd like to see OU with a coach like Kelvin, b/c it's hard to consistently get top talent here. We need a system and a program that our based on toughness, defense, and consistency. LK coaches like he's still coaching the Hawks.

Kelvin would probably win the NBA title and go 82-0 with this roster. Of course, his current Houston team is off to a worse start than OU, but I digress.

Seriously, I get called out by people for being blindly loyal to Lon, but I acknowledge many things I'd like to see change with our team. You, on the other hand, truly act as if Kelvin can do no wrong. He himself admits that he was not a good offensive coach at OU. Yes, his teams were tough as hell and competed like no one's business. But some people act as if he hung a couple national title banners in the LNC

 

[WichitaSooner]

big, you are forgetting that most of us think Kelvin, or any other coach like him, would be getting more out of the guys that are struggling. He'd have Reaves coming off screens. Like, a lot of them. He'd have a field day finding shots for Doo/Manek. If JB and Harmon were lost causes, he'd run the offense in a way where that didn't hurt the team as much, and those guys weren't forced to take a lot of shots. I think he'd have Williams playing better, and likely the bigs. The bigs he'd have focusing on defense and rebounding. They wouldn't even waste time right now on offensive moves that they might never master.

Not saying this would be one of his better teams, but he'd have them towards the top of the conference, and playing better ball. They'd certainly be better than Ken Pom's #56 on defense, if for no other reason, than he'd know this team would have to live by their defense.

Funny how everybody LOVED the length of this team, yet they still play poorly on D and don't rebound. Length = very overrated. Same with athleticism. Both without skill, toughness, and want-to, don't mean very much.

He would have a field day finding open shots for guys? Coaching offense was his biggest weakness. If you were to argue that OU Kelvin was a better offensive coach than Lon, any college hoops coach or expert would laugh you out of the room. Kelvin was great at many things. Creating easy scoring opportunities was not one of them.

 

[daqman]

Disagree... talent has been and is a problem. Especially depth. A claim WichitaSooner sticks to is that depth isn't that big a deal beyond 7 or 8 players, but I think OU is only getting legit contribution from 6. Let us take a look at some Sampson teams (not the final 4 team)....

2003 Sooners
PG: Quannas White
SG: Hollis Price
SG: Ebi Ere
PF: Kevin Bookout
C: Jabarhi Brown

Bench:

Jason Detrick
D'Angelo Alexander
Johnny Gilbert
Jozsef Szendrei

1999 Sooners
PG: Michael Johnson
SG: JR Raymond
SG: Eric Martin
PF: Eduardo Najera
PF: Ryan Humphrey

Bench
Tim Heskett
Kelley newton
Renzi Stone
Alex Spaulding
Victor Avila

Compare the 1999 team to this years team...

PG: Harmon... SG: Bieniemy... SG: Reaves... PF: Doolittle.... PF: Manek.

That 1999 team, which only won 22 games, would wipe the floor with this years team. Heskett and Newton would probably be starting on this years team..The 2003 team would beat this years team by 40 points.

One more... the 2005 team.

PG: Drew Lavender
SG: Terrell Everett
SG: Lawrence Mckenzie
PF: Kevin Bookout
PF: Taj Gray

Bench

David Godbold... Longar Longar... Jaison Williams... Johnnie Gilbert... Brandon Foust.

They would wipe the floor with these guys...

1998 Team...

PG: Michael Johnson
SG: Corey Brewer
SG: Eric Martin
PF: Eduardo Najera
C: Evan "Hootie" Wiley

Bench

Ryan Humphrey, Renzi Stone, Tim Heskett, Robert Allison

Again... that team would wipe the floor with this years team.

There isn't much difference (talent-wise) between our current roster and that 2003 roster.

 

[daqman]

He would have a field day finding open shots for guys? Coaching offense was his biggest weakness. If you were to argue that OU Kelvin was a better offensive coach than Lon, any college hoops coach or expert would laugh you out of the room. Kelvin was great at many things. Creating easy scoring opportunities was not one of them.

Kelvin's problem was he never had much scoring talent on his roster so he rode one guy offensively the whole season. When he finally got multiple scorers, he got to the final 4.
Lon is the other extreme. He let's everyone shoot regardless of their ability to score.

 

[opsooner]

I just want to see us improve at this point and think we will but I picked us way too high in conference. We will probably be an underdog in every road game and a lot of home games. It sucks that playing at home is like a neutral court game.

I agree with others. If you have several guys that can’t shoot on an LK team you are probably in trouble unless the others are tremendous athletes (and that is not the case). Along with too many guys shooting poorly our ability to finish at the rim remains a problem year after year.

I don’t mind a switching defense but it has to be done right. Early and lazy switching are problems. When is the last time we had a defensive guy that opposing players hated to go up against? We mostly play D kind of like a regular season NBA team.

Lots of areas need improvement and we shall see how far we can go. We have enough talent where I think we can still improve a lot. I just hope we don’t wait until the last 3 games to do it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[WTSooner]

Kelvin's problem was he never had much scoring talent on his roster so he rode one guy offensively the whole season. When he finally got multiple scorers, he got to the final 4.
Lon is the other extreme. He let's everyone shoot regardless of their ability to score.

Yep, not rocket science. Kelvin played to his teams' strengths. He never let guys that weren't scorers play a major role in the offense. And for good reason. His offenses, like you said, got a lot better the last 1/3 or 1/2 of his tenure at OU. Early on, like you said, it was defense and riding 1-2 guys on offense.

 

[BCSooners]

90% said they’d rather the team struggle more early on & have a better finish in conference play. Which is what could happen with 6 of the 9 guys getting minutes didn’t play last year. I’m not thrilled by what I see but it’s mostly from poor shooting (shots are wide open), Reaves being selfish, & rebounding (hill & Vic will help as they get more experience). That’s my hope & not ready to write this team off after less than half the season has been played and OU sits at 9-3 with a really tough non-conference yet again.

 

[Sooner Season]

There isn't much difference (talent-wise) between our current roster and that 2003 roster.

Man, I'm going to have to strenuously disagree dagman, looks to me like a world of difference. Consistent scoring from Price and Ere to begin with (not higher averages, but consistency) and interior physical toughness, defense and rebounding with Bookout, Gilbert and Szendrei to name a couple of obvious differences.

 

[inoref]

Man, I'm going to have to strenuously disagree dagman, looks to me like a world of difference. Consistent scoring from Price and Ere to begin with (not higher averages, but consistency) and interior physical toughness, defense and rebounding with Bookout, Gilbert and Szendrei to name a couple of obvious differences.

I think the 2003 team would just beat up this year team and win going away

 

[daqman]

Yes, world of difference. Yes, 2003 team would crush the current team. But talent-wise? Little difference.

 

[Max Power]

Man, I'm going to have to strenuously disagree dagman, looks to me like a world of difference. Consistent scoring from Price and Ere to begin with (not higher averages, but consistency) and interior physical toughness, defense and rebounding with Bookout, Gilbert and Szendrei to name a couple of obvious differences.

The 2003 team was a 1 seed and made the elite 8. This team is no where near that

 

[Max Power]

90% said they’d rather the team struggle more early on & have a better finish in conference play. Which is what could happen with 6 of the 9 guys getting minutes didn’t play last year. I’m not thrilled by what I see but it’s mostly from poor shooting (shots are wide open), Reaves being selfish, & rebounding (hill & Vic will help as they get more experience). That’s my hope & not ready to write this team off after less than half the season has been played and OU sits at 9-3 with a really tough non-conference yet again.

If I have to choose I would rather the team get better as the season goes in, not worse like it has the last two years.

 

[BCSooners]

If I have to choose I would rather the team get better as the season goes in, not worse like it has the last two years.

I don’t think they got worse last year, I just think their ceiling wasn’t high. They had 2 grad transfers who were average bench players in the Big12 as seniors & they had a successful season, won a game in the tourney, & competed well against the national champions. With the huge unexpected roster turnover I was happy with last year. Year before was a different story.

Team doesn’t look great right now but it was to be expected with so many new guys. The young & Juco players were expected to have rough patches, Reaves & JB is what’s really hurting. At least JB is contributing in other ways though.

 

[BCSooners]

Yes, world of difference. Yes, 2003 team would crush the current team. But talent-wise? Little difference.

Pretty laughable. So we’re not going to take into consideration White, Hollis, & Ere were seniors?

 

[daqman]

Pretty laughable. So we’re not going to take into consideration White, Hollis, & Ere were seniors?

It's pretty laughable that you can't read a post and comprehend a point. I never said anything about experience. I simply stated that talent-wise, there is little difference between the 2003 team and the current team.

 

[BCSooners]

Yes, world of difference. Yes, 2003 team would crush the current team. But talent-wise? Little difference.

It's pretty laughable that you can't read a post and comprehend a point. I never said anything about experience. I simply stated that talent-wise, there is little difference between the 2003 team and the current team.

Your point was to make a backhanded slight to this team by comparing it to an Elite 8 team with tons of experience. How do you know this team is just as talented? Are you just talking about raw athleticism? Experience increases your talent level (strength, athleticism, IQ, shooting, defense), so I think the word you are looking for is potential.