why is everyone blaming the players??

[TexasEx4OU]

HOWEVER, he is still the best player that OU has, so by benching him, you may as well just forfeit the season MOREOVER, Capel cares about WWIII and his future, so he won't submarine his opportunity to get drafted in the lottery by benching him either.

All due respect, but Jeff Capel isn't the head basketball coach at The University of WWIII. He's the head coach at The University of Oklahoma. I personally don't give a rat's ass what benching Warren would do to his draft stock, and if he continues on his present run of uninspired play and a generally piss-poor attitude, then the team will continue to suffer and this season is already basically "forfeit". In my opinion, he should sit, and allowing him to play because he is "still the best player" sends a message to the entire that screams "no one is accountable".

 

[Mr.B!!!]

Sorry, but by NOT benching him, he is hurting his professional opportunities. Scouts are seeing a self-centered player that does not play hard and pouts when things are going tough.

Bench him until he starts playing hard. Then when he decides to give 100% the scouts will see his real potential.

Walter, I'm with you and agree with you, just giving you the reason why it isn't happening that way. None of us were there when WW was being recruited, and none of us are there for the day to day discussions between Coach and WW, but there is a reason why the "tough love" approach is not happening [my guess as to why WW is still getting mucho time in games that he doesn't seem to care about is as good as any, and stems only from my experiences in the past].

 

[NickZepp]

All due respect, but Jeff Capel isn't the head basketball coach at The University of WWIII. He's the head coach at The University of Oklahoma. I personally don't give a rat's ass what benching Warren would do to his draft stock, and if he continues on his present run of uninspired play and a generally piss-poor attitude, then the team will continue to suffer and this season is already basically "forfeit". In my opinion, he should sit, and allowing him to play because he is "still the best player" sends a message to the entire that screams "no one is accountable".

I agree, Capel needs to send a message and maybe get rid of guys to help out the locker room environment and start making this a team instead of a bunch of individuals that can't stand each other.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

All due respect, but Jeff Capel isn't the head basketball coach at The University of WWIII. He's the head coach at The University of Oklahoma. I personally don't give a rat's ass what benching Warren would do to his draft stock, and if he continues on his present run of uninspired play and a generally piss-poor attitude, then the team will continue to suffer and this season is already basically "forfeit". In my opinion, he should sit, and allowing him to play because he is "still the best player" sends a message to the entire that screams "no one is accountable".

Not saying that "I" wouldn't bench Warren, but I can see the other side of it as well. It is easy for all of us to say that we would do this or that, but it is not us that has the relationship with the players, and specifically Willie Warren.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

I agree, Capel needs to send a message and maybe get rid of guys to help out the locker room environment and start making this a team instead of a bunch of individuals that can't stand each other.

How do you know that they can't stand each other? I want FACTS not speculation.

 

[oSuJeff97]

Take out "few" and replace with "two".

Who wouldn't be helped by having a Blake Griffin; but that's like saying Bill Self hasn't "proven it" at KU or Roy Williams hasn't "proven it" at UNC. Job 1 of a Coach is to get good talent, Job 2 is to coach it up. Capel has accomplished both jobs on different occassions, only once simultaneously [see last year].

I'm sure we'll be fine, but thanks for the concern!

You're missing the point.

The point is not that Capel shouldn't be given credit for winning with Blake.

The point is that even by "talent" standards, someone like Blake is an extremely rare commodity, even for places like KU and UNC... let alone OU or OSU.

When was the last time KU had the #1 overall pick in the NBA draft? Even at a basketball factory like KU, it doesn't happen often.

So if you proceed from the assumption that talents like that don't come along very often, the question is can Capel win at a high level without a once-in-a-generation talent on his team?

As I've stated numerous times, that is yet to be determined.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

You're missing the point.

The point is not that Capel shouldn't be given credit for winning with Blake.

The point is that even by "talent" standards, someone like Blake is an extremely rare commodity, even for places like KU and UNC... let alone OU or OSU.

When was the last time KU had the #1 overall pick in the NBA draft? Even at a basketball factory like KU, it doesn't happen often.

So if you proceed from the assumption that talents like that don't come along very often, the question is can Capel win at a high level without a once-in-a-generation talent on his team?

As I've stated numerous times, that is yet to be determined.

No, I got your point completely, it is just shrouded in a swipe that is what I would expect from a fan of a "rival"...just the same as I could ask what Travis Ford has done without Sutton recruits, goes both ways.

Here are facts: Capel has made it to several NCAA Tournaments and an Elite Eight prior to his 35th birthday and he has brought in more Top 100 type players in just three years than the last guy did in 10. Something isn't "clicking" with this team, but I don't think that Capel is the problem.

Really, I get what you are saying and your bias; what I want to hear is the inside information Nick Zepp has.

 

[Tony]

what I want to hear is the inside information Nick Zepp has.

He's a mind-reader. There are a lot of them on this board. Lots of people who can read minds and see inside the hearts of people they don't know. It's pretty impressive, actually.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

He's a mind-reader. There are a lot of them on this board. Lots of people who can read minds and see inside the hearts of people they don't know. It's pretty impressive, actually.

I've seen him pop off on other boards about not winning another conference game because of internal disputes between players AND said that TMG will not be back next year in part becuase of this. I want to know EXACTLY what these things are or Nick needs to STHU.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

and he has brought in more Top 100 type players in just three years than the last guy did in 10.

Liar.

More top 20 type players? Fine, and even that is closer than you'd think.

Fact is, "the previous guy" brought in some pretty good classes his last 6-7 years at OU, especially if you value the JUCO guys correctly (ie, don't assign them two stars just b/c they are JUCO guys). I'm sorry, but guys like Erdmann, Brewer, Price, Najera, Ere (pre-slump), Nolan Johnson, ect have produced just as well as any Capel recruit not named Blake Griffin.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

Liar.

More top 20 type players? Fine, and even that is closer than you'd think.

Fact is, "the previous guy" brought in some pretty good classes his last 6-7 years at OU, especially if you value the JUCO guys correctly (ie, don't assign them two stars just b/c they are JUCO guys). I'm sorry, but guys like Erdmann, Brewer, Price, Najera, Ere (pre-slump), Nolan Johnson, ect have produced just as well as any Capel recruit not named Blake Griffin.

Okay, now I'm lying.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

Okay, now I'm lying.

Kelvin brought in plenty of top 100 talent. He just couldn't land the top 20 guys consistently, or at all. And I'd argue that if some of his JUCO guys were rated the same way that HS kids are, he'd have had top 20 classes nearly every season, after about year 4.

 

[Tony]

Liar.

personal attacks on other posters are not allowed on this board...

Last night I posted that the Big 12 North is 2-0 so far against the South this year. Was that a lie?

 

[NickZepp]

The thing about Kelvin's recruiting he always got guys that impacted the team well almost right away. Even guys that were eventually off the team like Raymond, he impacted the program well his 2 years here.

There's a lot of scholarship players right now that don't really impact the program at all.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

personal attacks on other posters are not allowed on this board...

Last night I posted that the Big 12 North is 2-0 so far against the South this year. Was that a lie?

?????

Both are facts. One was/is true. The other wasn't. He knows what he said wasn't true. And if he doesn't know that it isnt' true, he shouldn't be thumping his chest on a message board claiming it is.

Liar isn't an attack. He knows he isn't telling the truth, he's just hoping not to get called on it. I'm not giving him that pass.

 

[Tony]

Liar isn't an attack.

Yes, it's a completely innocuous assessment of the situation!

 

[oSuJeff97]

No, I got your point completely, it is just shrouded in a swipe that is what I would expect from a fan of a "rival"...just the same as I could ask what Travis Ford has done without Sutton recruits, goes both ways.

Given your response here, I don't think you do get what I'm saying.

That comparison would make sense if Ford was coaching at OSU when we had a player that ended up being the #1 overall pick in the NBA draft.

It's not a question about whether or not Capel can do well without "some talent"... obviously every coach needs talent... I don't care if you're John Wooden or Dean Smith or whomever... you won't win without talented players.

The point is acknowledging just how rare a talent like Blake Griffin is/was... because if a coach must rely on that level of individual talent to make him successful, then there might be a problem at some point.

Apropos... this year's OU team has talent. There are three McDonald's AAs on this team, but there obviously isn't someone who's going to be the #1 overall pick in the NBA draft any time soon... and OU is struggling, just like they did in Capel's first year when there was no #1 overall pick on the team.

That's not to say things won't change... but they just are what they are for now.

And my opinion(s) on this topic has nothing to do with stupid rivalry crap. I've stated numerous times on this forum how much I like Capel. Sorry if you missed it.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

Yes, it's a completely innocuous assessment of the situation!

What else would you call misrepresenting the facts?

 

[Mr.B!!!]

Given your response here, I don't think you do get what I'm saying.

That comparison would make sense if Ford was coaching at OSU when we had a player that ended up being the #1 overall pick in the NBA draft.

It's not a question about whether or not Capel can do well without "some talent"... obviously every coach needs talent... I don't care if you're John Wooden or Dean Smith or whomever... you won't win without talented players.

The point is acknowledging just how rare a talent like Blake Griffin is/was... because if a coach must rely on that level of individual talent to make him successful, then there might be a problem at some point.

Apropos... this year's OU team has talent. There are three McDonald's AAs on this team, but there obviously isn't someone who's going to be the #1 overall pick in the NBA draft any time soon... and OU is struggling, just like they did in Capel's first year when there was no #1 overall pick on the team.

That's not to say things won't change... but they just are what they are for now.

And my opinion(s) on this topic has nothing to do with stupid rivalry crap. I've stated numerous times on this forum how much I like Capel. Sorry if you missed it.

What team won the national championship last season? It wasn't the one with the "guy" with the most talent. It was the one with the "team" that had the most talent. I get your point, Capel has proven nothing without Griffin, and you are wrong.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

?????

Both are facts. One was/is true. The other wasn't. He knows what he said wasn't true. And if he doesn't know that it isnt' true, he shouldn't be thumping his chest on a message board claiming it is.

Liar isn't an attack. He knows he isn't telling the truth, he's just hoping not to get called on it. I'm not giving him that pass.

Don't pretend to think that I think you are right; I just don't feel like getting in a pissing match that involves name calling.