Another kruger collapse

[luckyc1423]

And I'm def no Capel fan because I was one of the few that thought capel should have been fired the year before they did and I got "ridiculed" for even thinking such a thing. There was another poster doing the same thing at the time, was it bob!but I still have the ability to see he had some good qualities regardless how much I hate him

 

[garyeb2]

I think the wrong standard is being used. If a coach wins with the players he brings in, he recruited well. If a coach loses with the players he brought in, he recruited poorly.

 

[MsProudSooner]

And I'm def no Capel fan because I was one of the few that thought capel should have been fired the year before they did and I got "ridiculed" for even thinking such a thing. There was another poster doing the same thing at the time, was it bob!but I still have the ability to see he had some good qualities regardless how much I hate him

The players that he brought in who actually had some basketball skills also had huge character flaws. A good coach has to evaluate the person as well as the basketball player.

 

[luckyc1423]

I think the wrong standard is being used. If a coach wins with the players he brings in, he recruited well. If a coach loses with the players he brought in, he recruited poorly.

How well would we do with TMG, WW, and tiny gallon on the roster this year?

 

[luckyc1423]

The players that he brought in who actually had some basketball skills also had huge character flaws. A good coach has to evaluate the person as well as the basketball player.

You def. make a good point. I think however great coaches can mold young men.
How many top recruits have character flaws? There are probably tons that we dont know about because their coach was able to bring in the reigns.

 

[Max Power]

How well would we do with TMG, WW, and tiny gallon on the roster this year?

With ro on the team, probably pretty well. He would keep them in line when coach kruger wasn't around. That team had no real Sr. Leadership and no leadership from the coaching staff. It was the perfect storm

 

[152219]

Yeah lucky, fans get excited and say things that aren't really true, or likely to happen. Getting excited about the recruitment of those guys, at the time, is a lot different then trying to prove, as of today, that they were still good recruits. We have time on our side now, and we can look back. You can blame coaching or whatever you want, but if that is all that those kids were missing, they'd be doing better than they are right now. Instead, WW is playing overseas with a TON of other Sooners that were much less hyped, and I couldn't tell you what Tiny or TMG were doing. I'm sure Tiny is out polishing one of his three cars, or something.

It also shows that essentially every OU basketball fan was excited about the program and its direction after the Elite 8 and the subsequent recruiting class.

Also, that people change their tune when it doesn't fit their current agenda, which is fine, but to go from praising Capel as a recruiter to saying he was an awful recruiter is a big jump.

 

[Max Power]

It also shows that essentially every OU basketball fan was excited about the program and its direction after the Elite 8 and the subsequent recruiting class.

Also, that people change their tune when it doesn't fit their current agenda, which is fine, but to go from praising Capel as a recruiter to saying he was an awful recruiter is a big jump.

To follow up on your point, Caple was very good at relating to the kids and telling them what they wanted to hear. If you deny that you are blind. But he was a horrible coach. After people started seeing how bad he really was, no amount of Jay-Z fandom was going to lure kids to OU

 

[152219]

To follow up on your point, Caple was very good at relating to the kids and telling them what they wanted to hear. If you deny that you are blind. But he was a horrible coach. After people started seeing how bad he really was, no amount of Jay-Z fandom was going to lure kids to OU

All I know for sure is that the program imploded in '10 and it set the program back about 4 years.

But I will say I'm really starting to LOATHE the constant comparison between OU's coaches from both sides.

 

[Max Power]

All I know for sure is that the program imploded in '10 and it set the program back about 4 years.

But I will say I'm really starting to LOATHE the constant comparison between OU's coaches from both sides.

yes it did, and he is responsible for that.

 

[152219]

With ro on the team, probably pretty well. He would keep them in line when coach kruger wasn't around. That team had no real Sr. Leadership and no leadership from the coaching staff. It was the perfect storm

WW would obviously have graduated last year, but I agree that Ro with TMG, Gallon, Clark, etc would have likely been a great team, IF, they had a coach which could control all the egos and agendas and ultimately had a firm hand. That was what I think Capel's #1 issue was....he tried to be their big brother and relate to them which you can do during their recruitment somewhat but when they are your players, you are the head guy and have to control the program.

 

[152219]

yes it did, and he is responsible for that.

Yep, ultimately it was his responsibility.

But, I do not like the posters who insinuate he did it on purpose. There is no reason for that to be the case and is essentially ridiculous IMO.

 

[Max Power]

WW would obviously have graduated last year, but I agree that Ro with TMG, Gallon, Clark, etc would have likely been a great team, IF, they had a coach which could control all the egos and agendas and ultimately had a firm hand. That was what I think Capel's #1 issue was....he tried to be their big brother and relate to them which you can do during their recruitment somewhat but when they are your players, you are the head guy and have to control the program.

I agree 100%.

 

[WTSooner]

Capel's problem was two-fold.

First, he didn't want to be the kind of coach that Sampson was, and LK currently is. He didn't want to take 3* talent, mix in the occasional stud, and win because of coaching. He wanted to win the same way Drew has been winning at Baylor. He wanted to land a bunch of studs, and he wanted to sit back and watch them ball. Like he was used to at Duke.

Secondly, he didn't want to work up to that. He didn't want to put the time in to stabilize the roster after he lost 3/5 of that first class. So he went big. He went after the best. And for the most part, he struck out. He was able to land a couple of kids that had giant worts. Kids that a lot of the top programs didn't recruit very hard, or that were plan B and plan C type kids for them. But he didn't have anything to put around them. And he didn't have a leader to keep them in line. He rushed the process, and in turn, had rosters full of players that just didn't fit, and didn't have enough overall talent to win with his crappy coaching. Had he built things back up a bit, then went after the occasional monster recruit, without sacrificing so much, he might have done better.

Hind sight being what it is, Capel just wasn't a good fit at OU. At all. OU is probably going to need coaches that are a little more grounded than Capel, and a little more blue-collar.

 

[ByronHoustonsSweatyPalms]

With the talent Kruger had to start with and the unknowns regarding the incoming talent can you really call this a Kruger collapse? I would call the season as a whole Coach of the Year material

 

[152219]

Capel's problem was two-fold.

First, he didn't want to be the kind of coach that Sampson was, and LK currently is. He didn't want to take 3* talent, mix in the occasional stud, and win because of coaching. He wanted to win the same way Drew has been winning at Baylor. He wanted to land a bunch of studs, and he wanted to sit back and watch them ball. Like he was used to at Duke.

Secondly, he didn't want to work up to that. He didn't want to put the time in to stabilize the roster after he lost 3/5 of that first class. So he went big. He went after the best. And for the most part, he struck out. He was able to land a couple of kids that had giant worts. Kids that a lot of the top programs didn't recruit very hard, or that were plan B and plan C type kids for them. But he didn't have anything to put around them. And he didn't have a leader to keep them in line. He rushed the process, and in turn, had rosters full of players that just didn't fit, and didn't have enough overall talent to win with his crappy coaching. Had he built things back up a bit, then went after the occasional monster recruit, without sacrificing so much, he might have done better.

Hind sight being what it is, Capel just wasn't a good fit at OU. At all. OU is probably going to need coaches that are a little more grounded than Capel, and a little more blue-collar.

I don't see any fault in the first one if you can pull it off. Sampson and Kruger combined have 2 Final Fours and zero championships in what, 40+ years of coaching. Very good coaches and nothing to sneeze at but if your goal is to win championships you need as much great talent as you can get. But, I agree that you have to ramp up to that style and cannot jump right to it even with a place with a solid tradition like OU.

 

[DenverSooner]

He wanted to land a bunch of studs, and he wanted to sit back and watch them ball. Like he was used to at Duke.

That isn't remotely what they do at Duke. Duke is an extremely well coached team. At Duke you play defense or you don't play. At Duke you do it coach K's way or you don't play. I don't even undrestand how anyone could think Coach K just sits back and watches his kids ball. That sounds like AAU not D-1 basketball.

 

[Escape Goat]

With the talent Kruger had to start with and the unknowns regarding the incoming talent can you really call this a Kruger collapse? I would call the season as a whole Coach of the Year material

Took a Poke to see the Silver lining, and he's right.

 

[jerry]

With the talent Kruger had to start with and the unknowns regarding the incoming talent can you really call this a Kruger collapse? I would call the season as a whole Coach of the Year material

Agree completely Byron.

 

[bgrch1350]

That isn't remotely what they do at Duke. Duke is an extremely well coached team. At Duke you play defense or you don't play. At Duke you do it coach K's way or you don't play. I don't even undrestand how anyone could think Coach K just sits back and watches his kids ball. That sounds like AAU not D-1 basketball.

Oh Come on. Coach K is a great coach...but every player he brings in that sits the bench for Duke would start from day one on every OU squad.