Archie Miller out at Indiana

[NickZepp]

Another Big 10 coach just got fired. Richard Pitino fired. He was hired after only 1 year of HC experience and did nothing at Minnesota. But at least his dad made the NCAA Tournament this year.

 

[TINY]

Just do I understand...Lon does succeed, yet should be put out like the garbage. Miller doesn’t succeed, yet is a good coach. Interesting.

The double standards are never ending.

 

[sheepdogs1]

Another Big 10 coach just got fired. Richard Pitino fired. He was hired after only 1 year of HC experience and did nothing at Minnesota. But at least his dad made the NCAA Tournament this year.

Maybe it's me, but I find it odd how many houses are being cleaned during a year of uncertainty.

 

[Eielson]

Another Big 10 coach just got fired. Richard Patino fired. He was hired after only 1 year of HC experience and did nothing at Minnesota. But at least his dad made the NCAA Tournament this year.

Two years ago, he'd actually showed some signs of life. Tubby had a pretty solid run there, but otherwise Minnesota has barely shown any life since that mid-90s scandal.

 

[thebigabd]

By the time they get to these jobs, I think it's well accepted that they are "good coaches".... It's not about that. They are in a pool of other good coaches, all jockeying for position to succeed on various levels.

Being a good coach is irrelevant.... because its implied in 99% of cases.

I am 100% confident there is barely a difference in what Lon Kruger can teach someone vs what Eric Henderson at South Dakota State, or Matt Painter at Purdue, or Niko Medved at Colorado State. Sure, they have different philosophies... but they all are excellent coaches to make it to that level.

But how do they recruit?
How do they manage their roster?
How do they develop their players?
How good is the staff they put together?
How are they doing against their peers?
How are they doing with roster turnover?
How hard do their players play for them?
What is their practice culture like?

Those aren't even close to all the variables... and at the end of the day, Archie Miller, despite being a good coach... didn't do all the things at a level required to do better than his competition at other schools.

I can know everything there is to know about running a restaurant... but if I don't do all the ancillary things required to make a restaurant successful, I will go out of business because my competitors did better than I did. My knowledge of food or restaurants is irrelevant if I don't do better than the other restaurant owners. College coaching is no different.

 

[NickZepp]

Maybe it's me, but I find it odd how many houses are being cleaned during a year of uncertainty.

They gave him 8 years and he had 1 NCAA Tournament win to show for it. And 4 winning seasons. His first year won the NIT title his first year though.

 

[mict085]

Just do I understand...Lon does succeed, yet should be put out like the garbage. Miller doesn’t succeed, yet is a good coach. Interesting.

I have never said Lon was a bad coach. In fact, what I’ve always said is, I think Lon Is a great man and has had a distinguished career. Where Lon fails is in recruiting. That’s his downfall. I did say it’s time for him to retire because the recruiting isn’t getting the job done.

Also, your act of white knighting is very tiresome. You attack anyone who criticizes the program.

In a post about Indiana, you turn it around about something else.

 

[thebigabd]

I have never said Lon was a bad coach. In fact, what I’ve always said is, I think Lon Is a great man and has had a distinguished career. Where Lon fails is in recruiting. That’s his downfall. I did say it’s time for him to retire because the recruiting isn’t getting the job done.

Also, your act of white knighting is very tiresome. You attack anyone who criticizes the program.

Read my previous post.... that's all it is.

 

[mict085]

Maybe it's me, but I find it odd how many houses are being cleaned during a year of uncertainty.

The rich dudes paying for these buyouts made huge profits during the pandemic. Universities are losing money but the wealthy donors are getting more wealthy.

 

[NickZepp]

Most of the complaints about OU is that they can't get the talent that top schools get. That's always the issue. I would love it if we could regularly get NBA talent, really the only period we could semi get that was a few years under Tubbs even then he put maybe 10 players in the league total? Over about 14 seasons. Getting NBA talent to OU is just tough. Lon is gonna leave at some point and probably in the next few years but I'm not sure that we'll end up with any better than our current level.

 

[mict085]

By the time they get to these jobs, I think it's well accepted that they are "good coaches".... It's not about that. They are in a pool of other good coaches, all jockeying for position to succeed on various levels.

Being a good coach is irrelevant.... because its implied in 99% of cases.

I am 100% confident there is barely a difference in what Lon Kruger can teach someone vs what Eric Henderson at South Dakota State, or Matt Painter at Purdue, or Niko Medved at Colorado State. Sure, they have different philosophies... but they all are excellent coaches to make it to that level.

But how do they recruit?
How do they manage their roster?
How do they develop their players?
How good is the staff they put together?
How are they doing against their peers?
How are they doing with roster turnover?
How hard do their players play for them?
What is their practice culture like?

Those aren't even close to all the variables... and at the end of the day, Archie Miller, despite being a good coach... didn't do all the things at a level required to do better than his competition at other schools.

I can know everything there is to know about running a restaurant... but if I don't do all the ancillary things required to make a restaurant successful, I will go out of business because my competitors did better than I did. My knowledge of food or restaurants is irrelevant if I don't do better than the other restaurant owners. College coaching is no different.

Great post.

I agree. I would also say, “great” coaches that win titles aren’t any different than most good coaches except for 1 thing. They get the elite talent, by whatever means necessary. The biggest difference between Lon Kruger and bill self is recruiting. Period. Ku buys the best players. OU doesn’t and it shows on the court.

Great coaches fail without the talent on their roster. Even mediocre coaches can succeed with enough talent on the roster. Get the talent on campus by whatever means necessary. Just like ku, Duke, UNC, etc.

Spare me any responses about how those schools don’t break the rules. They do.

 

[NMSooner'80]

Indiana is a train wreck w/ 2 split factions of fans, they are lucky it only really takes a few players to turn a basketball team around, maybe the new coach can hire a good players relative or they can get lucky w/ a transfer or two.

I'm sure a big problem in Indiana is the pro-Knight faction of fools.

 

[TINY]

Great post.

I agree. I would also say, “great” coaches that win titles aren’t any different than most good coaches except for 1 thing. They get the elite talent, by whatever means necessary. The biggest difference between Lon Kruger and bill self is recruiting. Period. Ku buys the best players. OU doesn’t and it shows on the court.

Great coaches fail without the talent on their roster. Even mediocre coaches can succeed with enough talent on the roster. Get the talent on campus by whatever means necessary. Just like ku, Duke, UNC, etc.

Spare me any responses about how those schools don’t break the rules. They do.

Great post, mict085. This is the sad reality. If you don’t pay then you won’t be getting top 50 guys with any consistency.

 

[skyvue]

Also, your act of white knighting is very tiresome. You attack anyone who criticizes the program.

He didn't attack anyone. He pointed out fallacies in a post. Many of those who criticize the program on this board appear to be very sensitive people -- they take it very hard when someone points out potential weaknesses in their arguments.

 

[vbdad]

Great post, mict085. This is the sad reality. If you don’t pay then you won’t be getting top 50 guys with any consistency.

Absolutely! KU has had their ticket office go to jail for them to get basketball players. Then they are caught getting players via the shoe companies. No telling what will be next.

 

[WichitaSooner]

He didn't attack anyone. He pointed out fallacies in a post. Many of those who criticize the program on this board appear to be very sensitive people -- they take it very hard when someone points out potential weaknesses in their arguments.

Thanks, Sky, for pointing this out. I guess some people can’t understand why the Indiana situation is very much relevant in assessing our situation. The point being, any discussion about whether Lon or any other coach is best for a program should include a consideration of what other options and outcomes are likely. We keep hearing that our program should have higher expectations, that Lon’s performance doesn’t meet his salary, and that there are plenty of better options out there to get our program to another level. When guys who have been cited in previous threads fail miserably at P5 schools, it should make us realize the risk that OU would be facing if they decide to force Lon into retirement.

Contrary to what some believe, coaching matters a ton in college sports. There are a handful of coaches who undoubtedly would be considered an upgrade over Lon. If any of them were looking to leave Kansas, Gonzaga, Duke and come to Norman, this would be a different conversation. But somehow I think those guys are probably content in their current gigs.

 

[sheepdogs1]

Thanks, Sky, for pointing this out. I guess some people can’t understand why the Indiana situation is very much relevant in assessing our situation. The point being, any discussion about whether Lon or any other coach is best for a program should include a consideration of what other options and outcomes are likely. We keep hearing that our program should have higher expectations, that Lon’s performance doesn’t meet his salary, and that there are plenty of better options out there to get our program to another level. When guys who have been cited in previous threads fail miserably at P5 schools, it should make us realize the risk that OU would be facing if they decide to force Lon into retirement.

Contrary to what some believe, coaching matters a ton in college sports. There are a handful of coaches who undoubtedly would be considered an upgrade over Lon. If any of them were looking to leave Kansas, Gonzaga, Duke and come to Norman, this would be a different conversation. But somehow I think those guys are probably content in their current gigs.

Archie Miller is 42 years of age. Should bear some relevance.

 

[ouboomer]

Thanks, Sky, for pointing this out. I guess some people can’t understand why the Indiana situation is very much relevant in assessing our situation. The point being, any discussion about whether Lon or any other coach is best for a program should include a consideration of what other options and outcomes are likely. We keep hearing that our program should have higher expectations, that Lon’s performance doesn’t meet his salary, and that there are plenty of better options out there to get our program to another level. When guys who have been cited in previous threads fail miserably at P5 schools, it should make us realize the risk that OU would be facing if they decide to force Lon into retirement.

Contrary to what some believe, coaching matters a ton in college sports. There are a handful of coaches who undoubtedly would be considered an upgrade over Lon. If any of them were looking to leave Kansas, Gonzaga, Duke and come to Norman, this would be a different conversation. But somehow I think those guys are probably content in their current gigs.

Lots to agree with here. In terms of doing things the right way off the court Lon has been a home run hire not many can say they have or do it better than he has. Saying that do we want to be a bubble team and below .500 in conference play going on 5 seasons in a row? of course not..Some areas Lon does need to find improvement, and the reality is Lon's tenure is almost done. At OU the bench mark seems to be 10 years plus or minus a year..Lon gets another season if he wants it.

 

[BoulderSooner]

Lots to agree with here. In terms of doing things the right way off the court Lon has been a home run hire not many can say they have or do it better than he has. Saying that do we want to be a bubble team and below .500 in conference play going on 5 seasons in a row? of course not..Some areas Lon does need to find improvement, and the reality is Lon's tenure is almost done. At OU the bench mark seems to be 10 years plus or minus a year..Lon gets another season if he wants it.

OU has NOT been a bubble team 5 years in a row ..

not even close to that

 

[Sooner04]

OU has NOT been a bubble team 5 years in a row ..

not even close to that

Boulder is right. We missed the Dance by a thousand miles in 2017.

Pretty close to the bubble in 2018. Safely put (somewhat) in 2019 and 2021. Assume the same for 2020.