Arkansas Little Rock

[zacj33]

The epidemic of missed layups is a women's basketball problem, not just OU. I talked to an assistant from Tennessee a few years ago and he stressed the importance of just making shots in the lane. As girls have become more physical and athletic, it is becoming harder for girls to score in there because they cannot elevate to be right next to the rim like the men.

 

[tycat947]

The epidemic of missed layups is a women's basketball problem, not just OU. I talked to an assistant from Tennessee a few years ago and he stressed the importance of just making shots in the lane. As girls have become more physical and athletic, it is becoming harder for girls to score in there because they cannot elevate to be right next to the rim like the men.

+1

 

[SoonerSpock]

No question the impact of height on point blank shooting is significant and women are not going to approach the effectiveness of men. However, most women use the backboard ineffectively by placing the ball on the board too low. Too many place the ball on the board at or barely above the rim creating a bad angle for the ball to go into the hoop.

If they placed the ball higher on the board 6-12" above the rim the angle coming off the board would be more conducive to a made basket. I have for years observed how in general the Baylor players place the ball higher on the board than do the Sooners and it seems to me their make percentage is much higher.

This an observation as I have not actually tracked point blanks shots by either team when they play. But I am comfortable the difference does exist.

 

[SoonerinNC]

We missed the layups because we forced up shots when we didn't have an open shot. They have to kick off when they are covered that way or pull up for a short jumper.

I am more concerned about our rotations. In every game we start off well and then when subs come in our offense grinds to a halt and the other team eventually catches up. Improved with EJ replacing ViVi rather than Treece who is not a post player. I would like to see Carter or Maddie running the point or even Penzo when we make our first substitutions.

Edwards is a good one on one player with her quickness and is good on defense and rebound well for her size but it appears that the offense doesn't work well with her at point.

 

[sybarite]

We missed the layups because we forced up shots when we didn't have an open shot. They have to kick off when they are covered that way or pull up for a short jumper.

I am more concerned about our rotations. In every game we start off well and then when subs come in our offense grinds to a halt and the other team eventually catches up. Improved with EJ replacing ViVi rather than Treece who is not a post player. I would like to see Carter or Maddie running the point or even Penzo when we make our first substitutions.

Edwards is a good one on one player with her quickness and is good on defense and rebound well for her size but it appears that the offense doesn't work well with her at point.

+1

 

[soonermike22]

No question the impact of height on point blank shooting is significant and women are not going to approach the effectiveness of men. However, most women use the backboard ineffectively by placing the ball on the board too low. Too many place the ball on the board at or barely above the rim creating a bad angle for the ball to go into the hoop.

If they placed the ball higher on the board 6-12" above the rim the angle coming off the board would be more conducive to a made basket. I have for years observed how in general the Baylor players place the ball higher on the board than do the Sooners and it seems to me their make percentage is much higher.

This an observation as I have not actually tracked point blanks shots by either team when they play. But I am comfortable the difference does exist.

I agree with your analysis on lay-ups. To Add to it, we do a lot of drive under the basket and maneuvers to avoid blocks, but I see us doing two things that lowers the percentages. One, we get too far underneath the basket way to often, and as you say, we should be using the backboard and getting it up high enough-practice using the square on the backboard for heavens sake.
The other side of that is that we get to the basket, pull defenders in, and have a better chance for teammates offensive rebound. Just need to improve from 50% to 75

 

[soonermike22]

They didn't have the size to compete with Vivi and EJ, and both have stepped up this year.

Peyton hit threes, but didn't really have her best game otherwise. She is a better defender and rebounder usually, and she led to some turnovers.

Maddie missed too many. But, she hit some key shots at key times. She was rushing her layup, and it went over the rim, too hard. But, she does too much other than score to take her out of the game.

Gioya had as bad of a game in this one as her game was good in the last one. Not only was she throwing up bad layups, she was making mistakes all over the floor. She simply could not keep up with her man who drove around her repetitively on her way to a 21 (?) point game.

Dungee did OK. She gets too excited at times as well. Gabbi had a bit of an off selection night, shooting wildly on layups at times. Her worst game of the year.

Edwards does something good. Then, she causes three turnovers by dribbling into the middle when it is blocked.

In this game, I think we didn't see one player at all that I think would have been good--Penzo. Where was she? We needed a defender who could locate people on the pass.

It's about getting to the rim with the right layup, not just throwing up shots. I got the impression in the first game that they were simply trying to get the calls and shoot free throws. They weren't calling those last night.

Somebody made the comment that some just stand there and watch the rebound. Yep.

I don't think Edwards is your favorite player. She and Maddie and 4 other players all had 2 turnovers. She shot 3 of 5, vs 3 of 9 for Maddie and Gioya. She came into the game late as the defensive player in offensive/defensive switch. Maddie had a great game on defense and rebounding. Maddie had 5 rebounds to tie for second highest total. OH, by the way the other person with 5 rebounds was T'Ona in less than half the minutes.

 

[rocjunkie]

No question the impact of height on point blank shooting is significant and women are not going to approach the effectiveness of men. However, most women use the backboard ineffectively by placing the ball on the board too low. Too many place the ball on the board at or barely above the rim creating a bad angle for the ball to go into the hoop.

If they placed the ball higher on the board 6-12" above the rim the angle coming off the board would be more conducive to a made basket. I have for years observed how in general the Baylor players place the ball higher on the board than do the Sooners and it seems to me their make percentage is much higher.

This an observation as I have not actually tracked point blanks shots by either team when they play. But I am comfortable the difference does exist.

Spock, you are right on. I have for years been disappointed in our inability to finish at the rim, contested or uncontested. I don't understand why they consistently put the ball so low on the glass. It indeed is about angles. We really need to bring back Danielle to teach these kids how to put the ball on the glass. She was a master on the drive and using proper angles.

 

[sybarite]

I don't think Edwards is your favorite player. She and Maddie and 4 other players all had 2 turnovers. She shot 3 of 5, vs 3 of 9 for Maddie and Gioya. She came into the game late as the defensive player in offensive/defensive switch. Maddie had a great game on defense and rebounding. Maddie had 5 rebounds to tie for second highest total. OH, by the way the other person with 5 rebounds was T'Ona in less than half the minutes.

At this moment, I agree that T'Ona is only effective in an open floor. She slows down a set offense, rendering others less productive as well. She has a tendency to dribble into trouble which always seems to end up with us losing the ball. Her shots tend to be so wild that they don't even hit the backboard, and they seem to be taken when there is nobody from OU underneath the basket. Gioya also tends to throw up some layups that have no business being shot.

If you look at the videos of the game, there were three incidents in which Maddie missed a shot or a layup in which either EJ or Vivi got a putback. There was someone there to rebound, and she drew the defenders to her. In that case, a shot is almost like being an assist.

Right now, if we aren't playing pressure defense, I would rather bring Penzo off the bench than T'Ona. Penzo finds the open player, and she doesn't tend to drive into trouble that she can't get out of. She is also big enough that they can't just take her inside.

 

[SoonerinNC]

I agree that Edwards has value as she is good on defense as long as she doesn't get into a bad switch. She plays hard and gets a lot of rebounds with sheer hustle. I just don't see her running the offense well. She is a pretty effective one on one performer and makes some good passes off her drives.

We need rotations that keep the momentum going. The other team is also making substitutions and should have as much drop off as we do.

 

[soonermike22]

At this moment, I agree that T'Ona is only effective in an open floor. She slows down a set offense, rendering others less productive as well. She has a tendency to dribble into trouble which always seems to end up with us losing the ball. Her shots tend to be so wild that they don't even hit the backboard, and they seem to be taken when there is nobody from OU underneath the basket. Gioya also tends to throw up some layups that have no business being shot.

If you look at the videos of the game, there were three incidents in which Maddie missed a shot or a layup in which either EJ or Vivi got a putback. There was someone there to rebound, and she drew the defenders to her. In that case, a shot is almost like being an assist.

Right now, if we aren't playing pressure defense, I would rather bring Penzo off the bench than T'Ona. Penzo finds the open player, and she doesn't tend to drive into trouble that she can't get out of. She is also big enough that they can't just take her inside.

I'm not sure who you are agreeing with that T'Ona isn't effective in half court. She is. Her rate of turnovers per minute played is equal to or less than other players. Her steals and rebounds are statistically equal or better, I am not sure what you might be seeing on any replay. IMO she is effective as a back up point guard, great on defense, and although not Danielle on offense, she is effective in half court also. Watching the games this year, she also looks productive, but joins other guards in missing some layups.
So I will just repeat that I don't think T'Ona is your favorite player.

 

[sybarite]

I am agreeing with this statement by NC:

Edwards is a good one on one player with her quickness and is good on defense and rebound well for her size but it appears that the offense doesn't work well with her at point.

I think that a lot of turnovers are set up by T'Ona that she isn't charged for. I don't think she sets up the offense. The only assists that she gets tend to be in open court as she finds someone for a layup. In a halfcourt, she is more likely to lead to a stalled offense.

I think Sherri gets excited, as do announcers, when she drives between a bunch of people for a layup. I am more frustrated that she often throws up a silly attempt that we have no chance of rebounding, and she is equally likely to drive into the lane, get trapped, and nearly always lose the ball.

T'Ona is fine in an open court game. I think Sherri is playing a favorite when she brings her into a game to run an offense. Penzo is better at that. Maddie is better at that. If we aren't using pressure to try to run, I'd rather not see T'Ona or LaNesia.

 

[soonermike22]

I am agreeing with this statement by NC:



I think that a lot of turnovers are set up by T'Ona that she isn't charged for. I don't think she sets up the offense. The only assists that she gets tend to be in open court as she finds someone for a layup. In a halfcourt, she is more likely to lead to a stalled offense.

I think Sherri gets excited, as do announcers, when she drives between a bunch of people for a layup. I am more frustrated that she often throws up a silly attempt that we have no chance of rebounding, and she is equally likely to drive into the lane, get trapped, and nearly always lose the ball.

T'Ona is fine in an open court game. I think Sherri is playing a favorite when she brings her into a game to run an offense. Penzo is better at that. Maddie is better at that. If we aren't using pressure to try to run, I'd rather not see T'Ona or LaNesia.

Sorry, I thought (and still think) there was a significant difference between not working very well and ineffective. I think our full time coach can gauge effectiveness better than us, but we can all have our opinions. And the assigning of assist and turnovers is also done by someone who is very good. I don't think turnovers are given to the wrong player very often.
So I still think T'Ona is not your favorite player.
I go to almost all the home wbb games, and have for years, and don't understand from what I see in person why some think so poorly of certain players.
Different perceptions and different approaches to what makes a good overall team

 

[sybarite]

OK. If you say so.