Barnes comment on the OU visit from an ISU view

[BigTime]

BigTime, you are a great fan but we will just have to agree to disagree on this point.

That's fine, but there is no need to try and cut down what we are trying to do. I will be bumping that thread at various points around Bedlam time and would appreciate some respect for those that worked hard to make it.

You already seem to realize that OU has the better program, so you aren't who we are targeting! haha

 

[campbest]

Re: Barnes comments on the OU visit from an ISU view

Harrison Barnes can go to Duke if he wants. We aren't talking about a dumb person here. In fact, almost none of the people we recruit are dumb. They can process more information than "Coach X can put me in the NBA" and "Coach Capel is young and I can relate to him and talk about rap music." It's dumb of us to over-analyze what was likely just a throwaway line from Barnes, but if he truly believes that OU has routinely been at the bottom of the Big 12, then that is absurd. It's not going to confuse young Harrison for him to find out that we do have some basketball tradition here. That doesn't mean you don't tout your recent achievements or talk about how you can put players in the NBA, it's treating these recruits with the respect of realizing they are a bit more than the 2-dimensional caricatures some think.

Harrison might not even care to learn, his goal is most likely to play for a (current) high profile team and make a splash before the NBA. You change your recruiting tactic to fit the player, I'm sure Barnes has gotten plenty of info about the academics at OU. Sounds like the pitch is working, we're a finalist with a bunch of historically elite basketball schools and the hometown university.

 

[CobraKai]

Re: Barnes comments on the OU visit from an ISU view

If you have to tell a kid that you have basketball history, then maybe you don't have the level of history that kid is looking for. I mean, it would come off pretty lame to try to be like, "No really, we really have been great at basketball...I promise." You don't want to draw attention to the fact that despite the level of OU's tradition, no one knows about it. A kid doesn't want to imagine himself toiling away in obscurity. For Capel to tell these kids that he is trying to elevate the program is true and much more attractive to the kids.

Hasn't OSU been doing this for years now?

 

[gracefor24]

A lot of these kids aren't huge college basketball fans, something that is overlooked a lot in recruiting. The other thing is that OU is recruiting against the best of the best and the whole "tradition" thing is going to come up. As Norm said if they were recruiting against OSU and KSU then it wouldn't really come up. The point is that OU is battling Duke, UNC, and KU. Total different level, so it's almost as if the fact that OU's tradition is in question just shows the level that Capel has raised recruiting.

 

[Cheno]

Re: Barnes comments on the OU visit from an ISU view

In my opinion the problem with OU's perception is the OU fan base. Most of our fan base does not understand how strong our program is. If we don't get, it is simply unrealistic to think the rest of the country will get it.

We have to change our perception of ourselves to change our national perception. When people in OKlahoma say OSU is the basketball school, we have to challenge that statement and point out that OSU has only finished higher than OU in the Big XII once since its inception. Furthermore, we have to tell them OU dominated OSU even more in the Big 8 era. The smae thing is true with every other school in the Big XII (except Kansas).

Once we change the image in the State, I believe our National image will improve. I actually believe OU has a better National image than in state image. Just look at what the ISU fans say.

Denver well said. I totally agree. I think I'm a prime example as when I first came to the OU boards I caught a lot of flack for saying OU can do better. I think my perception was higher than many who just seemed to be happy with another 20 win season. The sky is the limit for OU. All the resources are there.

 

[Cheno]

A lot of these kids aren't huge college basketball fans, something that is overlooked a lot in recruiting.

This is a great point. I was reading an article not to long ago on a top 20 recruit in like the 2010 or 2011 class and he said he never really has watched college basketball at all. That he was just learning about who/what KU was, Syracuse was, etc. He knew nothing about them. You've got to realize when you are 16 years old you don't sit around and watch college hoops all the time like we do. They are out playing, playing NBA Live on their game system or hanging with friends/girlfriends. I guarantee you most top 50 players spend more time on YouTube than watching college hoops.
And truth be known on a Monday night they are probably more apt to watch an NBA game on TNT or whatever than Big Monday on ESPN.
You don't hear 16 year old kids talking about how great Willie Warren is...you hear them talking about LeBron and Kobe.

 

[skyvue]

Re: Barnes comments on the OU visit from an ISU view

A lot of these kids aren't huge college basketball fans, something that is overlooked a lot in recruiting.

Fair enough, but for every prospect who has little interest in tradition or history, there's another that does. We certainly use our tradition in recruiting in football; why wouldn't it serve us to have recruits know how good we have been in basketball, too?

It's one thing for a kid to think we've never been very good and be impressed that we're making waves now; it's quite another for a kid to know (or learn from our coaches) that, in fact, we've not been that far below the top programs, that we've been a top 20 program for a quarter-century and are now ready to make the move up to the next level. I want the kid who cares about what's come before and wants to help elevate us to the elite level.

I'm not saying can't be that kid, but I definitely want anyone from our program who deals with him to educate him, to make him aware of our past successes, to clue him in about the great accomplishments of Billy Tubbs and Kelvin Sampson, of Wayman Tisdale, Hollis Price, Eduardo Najera, Blake Griffin, and the rest.

I agree. Sometimes the truth hurts. I think Harrison's comments are right on the money. Whether people want to admit it or not, that was the perception of OU basketball outside Norman Oklahoma. As you stated, the big fish who are blessed with LEGITIMATE NBA talent ONLY care about March Madness and the NBA. That's the way it should be.

His remarks are nowhere near being on the money. This statement -- "He’s taken Oklahoma from the bottom of the Big 12 to this year, being ranked number two behind Kansas." -- is nonsense, and reveals his ignorance of Sooner basketball. I know you feel a tingle of excitement any time someone makes a statement that reflects badly on our former coach, but Barnes' view of Oklahoma hoops history is as misguided and ill-informed as yours is revisionist and agenda-driven.

And this notion that the "big fish" care only about March Madness and the NBA is beyond laughable. What's up with all those fans camping out for regular-season games at Duke and packing the house all season long at the Phog -- are they confused about what month it is? Of course not -- they're hoops fans, and they enjoy the ride all season long. Only fringe hoops fans care only about March Madness, and anyone who couldn't enjoy the careers of players the likes of Hollis Price or Kevin Bookout (and I could go on and on) because they were a long shot to make it to the NBA is not a true college basketball fan.

 

[DenverSooner]

I have no idea why Barnes said what he said or thought what he thought, but I am 100% convinced that OU fans need to change their impression of the program as the next major step towards success.

OU has a very strong basketball program. We need to boast about our basketball program as much if not more than OSU fans do theirs.

It is easy in the Big XII to say "yes, but KU is better". That may be true but I would respond with what programs do not get ranked behind KU. We should want our program to reach the level of KU, Kentucky, North Carolina, etc. but we should not deny its accomplishments simply because KU is in our confernece. That would be like Texas, Nebraska and all the other Big XII schools belittling their football teams just because OU has clearly accomplished more.

I have probably preached on this more than I should now and in the past but I sincerely believe OU fans need to change our self perception.

 

[gracefor24]

Re: Barnes comments on the OU visit from an ISU view

I think you misunderstood my point. The idea was that somehow Barnes should automatically know about OU's tradition. I think you definitely let him know how good your program has been for the last 25 years. I just don't think you get upset and take it as an insult if the kid didn't already know.

So then is it Capel's fault for not apprising him fully of OU's tradition?

Fair enough, but for every prospect who has little interest in tradition or history, there's another that does. We certainly use our tradition in recruiting in football; why wouldn't it serve us to have recruits know how good we have been in basketball, too?

It's one thing for a kid to think we've never been very good and be impressed that we're making waves now; it's quite another for a kid to know (or learn from our coaches) that, in fact, we've not been that far below the top programs, that we've been a top 20 program for a quarter-century and are now ready to make the move up to the next level. I want the kid who cares about what's come before and wants to help elevate us to the elite level.

I'm not saying can't be that kid, but I definitely want anyone from our program who deals with him to educate him, to make him aware of our past successes, to clue him in about the great accomplishments of Billy Tubbs and Kelvin Sampson, of Wayman Tisdale, Hollis Price, Eduardo Najera, Blake Griffin, and the rest.



His remarks are nowhere near being on the money. This statement -- "He’s taken Oklahoma from the bottom of the Big 12 to this year, being ranked number two behind Kansas." -- is nonsense, and reveals his ignorance of Sooner basketball. I know you feel a tingle of excitement any time someone makes a statement that reflects badly on our former coach, but Barnes' view of Oklahoma hoops history is as misguided and ill-informed as yours is revisionist and agenda-driven.

And this notion that the "big fish" care only about March Madness and the NBA is beyond laughable. What's up with all those fans camping out for regular-season games at Duke and packing the house all season long at the Phog -- are they confused about what month it is? Of course not -- they're hoops fans, and they enjoy the ride all season long. Only fringe hoops fans care only about March Madness, and anyone who couldn't enjoy the careers of players the likes of Hollis Price or Kevin Bookout (and I could go on and on) because they were a long shot to make it to the NBA is not a true college basketball fan.

 

[skyvue]

Re: Barnes comments on the OU visit from an ISU view

So then is it Capel's fault for not apprising him fully of OU's tradition?

It is if he never does so, but I hope and trust Coach Capel fills these young athletes in a bit on Sooner hoops history. He's talked up our tradition in the media pretty often since he arrived in Norman.

 

[gracefor24]

Re: Barnes comments on the OU visit from an ISU view

It is if he never does so, but I hope and trust Coach Capel fills these young athletes in a bit on Sooner hoops history. He's talked up our tradition in the media pretty often since he arrived in Norman.

Yeah, that's what's surprising. I wonder if Barnes just misspoke. It's pretty easy to do when you are bombarded with interviews. Or maybe he was really trying to talk Capel up and the things he's doing and just stretched it a little too far.

I think it's a harmless mistake and not representative of what kids think of OU's tradition.

 

[MNsooner]

Re: Barnes comments on the OU visit from an ISU view

I thought he meant from the bottom of the Big XII in Capel's first season to the elite eight. I didn't think it was a comment about our tradition. No one would deny that Capel has done a lot to change OU from it's reputation as a football school.

EDIT: in other words, this comment is not a reflection of Barnes' felling about our tradition so cool it on the freak outs.

 

[jmill1200]

If I was just a class or 2 under WWIII, i wouldn't be looking up to him, he's the competition. In Barnes defense, OU bottomed out a bit, we didn't get a NCAA bid and on a national level, weren't mentioned much other than the Sampson tidbits. But some recruits come in with an understanding of the history and tradition. I know the Griffen's did.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

The biggest problem with hyping the Sampson glory years to recruits is that we didn't have a single guy drafted in the first round, and we only had one player stick in the league during that whole time. Let's face it, those elite kids all think that they are for sure going to play in the pros. Therefore, tradition that doesn't involve putting guys into the league is not really what they are interested in.

Really? So kids like Barnes would rather go to a crummy team b/c their coach lucked into sending 1/2 kids to the NBA over OU, regardless of our NBA prospects over the last 2 decades or so?

I don't believe that.

It may be the deciding factor between OU and a similiar school, but even then, I'd take my chances.

 

[BigTime]

Really? So kids like Barnes would rather go to a crummy team b/c their coach lucked into sending 1/2 kids to the NBA over OU, regardless of our NBA prospects over the last 2 decades or so?

I don't believe that.

It may be the deciding factor between OU and a similiar school, but even then, I'd take my chances.

Yes really. Again, I am talking about elite kids. Coach Capel mentioned that one of the biggest hurdles that he has had to overcome in the recruiting of elite kids is the fact that OU has only put 1 kid in the league since these kids have started watching basketball, and hasn't had a first round draft pick since 88. One of the first questions that recruits and there families ask about is how many guys that the school has put in the league. Things are changing at OU now, which is great for recruiting.

Why would elite guys even consider sucky teams? I am talking about Oklahoma.

You may not believe it, but its true. Again, not that hard to figure out. You are off today pal.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

Yes really. Again, I am talking about elite kids. Coach Capel mentioned that one of the biggest hurdles that he has had to overcome in the recruiting of elite kids is the fact that OU has only put 1 kid in the league since these kids have started watching basketball, and hasn't had a first round draft pick since 88. One of the first questions that recruits and there families ask about is how many guys that the school has put in the league. Things are changing at OU now, which is great for recruiting.

Why would elite guys even consider sucky teams? I am talking about Oklahoma.

You may not believe it, but its true. Again, not that hard to figure out. You are off today pal.

Why would a kid care how many NBA players OU has had before Capel got here? We all know Kelvin wasn't very conducent to those kinds of players. Doesn't mean OU, or the OU bball program holds them back. It means we had a coach that didn't go after many of those types of players. Those kids are going to the NBA whether or not they play for Capel, Kelvin, OU, Tulsa, or Idaho. Kid could stay home, play at ISU, and be the #1 pick.

You said they want to go to schools that send kids to the NBA? There are some schools that have down years, ie, not as consistent as OU, that have sent kids to the league fairly regularly (compared to OU).

 

[Sooner23]

Ouch. It's as if the Kelvin Sampson era at OU never existed to these recruits.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

Ouch. It's as if the Kelvin Sampson era at OU never existed to these recruits.

Or Tubbs. Thought I don't expect them to "remember" those days.

Like was mentioned above, hard to expect the kid to know, when alot of OU fans don't.

 

[Sid]

It is if he never does so, but I hope and trust Coach Capel fills these young athletes in a bit on Sooner hoops history.

Nonsense! He doesn't need to talk up OU's basketball history. He lets opposing coaches do it for him.

Now our fanbase on the other hand should always remember and take pride in what we were able to accomplish during the Sampson years. I have a ton of great memories from that era.

I agree. The record attendance during those wonderful and exciting years proves your point. IMO, that period was the golden era of OU basketball.

We need to get off that wagon and compare ourselves to the best. If we are stacking up well against the best (and we are definitely getting there) then people will see this program for where it is and more importantly, where it is going. JMHO

This ^

I think I'm a prime example as when I first came to the OU boards I caught a lot of flack for saying OU can do better. I think my perception was higher than many who just seemed to be happy with another 20 win season.

You did catch a lot of grief back then but you stuck to your guns and you NEVER waivered. The rest is history. Now you get to watch your vision of OU basketball come true right before your eyes.

The sky is the limit for OU. All the resources are there.

Yes!