Baylor @ Oklahoma

[WichitaSooner]

Everything you said is true, and I am a huge LK fan. However, the last 3 years have been abysmal. This year could turn out better than abysmal but the trajectory it's on now with 2 home losses to middle of the road Big 12 teams (we still have Tech and KU coming) doesn't give me much hope. The road woes are already well known.

To be honest, his assistant coach hires were, in one word, a disaster. That is on him. The recruiting for the past 4 classes hasn't been great either and we can see that now with the current teams lack of success.

This program can consistently compete in the big 12 and should consistently be a round of 32 or round of 16 basketball program. We are neither right now. That's a concern.

The two teams you mentioned ARE TIED FOR FIRST as we approach the midway point. The losses themselves were awful because of how we played, but it is getting tiresome to read so many people act as if we lost to two crappy teams. If you don't think KSU and Baylor will finish in the upper tier of the conference, fine, but as of now, that is just a guess on your part. Last I looked, standings are still determined by who wins games on the floor, not by Kenpom or other metrics. And in the Big 12, even middle of the pack teams are good opponents.

As to your last point -- how many programs would you say are, in reality, consistently in the Sweet 16? I can come up with Duke, UK, KU, UNC, Michigan State, UVA, maybe Gonzaga, and Arizona (till the past couple years). This is off the top of my head and I'm probably missing one or two, but not many. OU is a step below, and was even under Kelvin. It wasn't like we made the Sweet 16 more years than not in his 12 years. And I LOVE Kelvin. Realistically, if we make it once every three or four years, we'd be ahead of 95% of the country. And unless we suddenly develop a fan base that cares enough about the sport to fill more than half the arena, it will be extremely difficult to take the leap into that top tier.

 

[hoopsaustin]

The two teams you mentioned ARE TIED FOR FIRST as we approach the midway point. The losses themselves were awful because of how we played, but it is getting tiresome to read so many people act as if we lost to two crappy teams. If you don't think KSU and Baylor will finish in the upper tier of the conference, fine, but as of now, that is just a guess on your part. Last I looked, standings are still determined by who wins games on the floor, not by Kenpom or other metrics. And in the Big 12, even middle of the pack teams are good opponents.

As to your last point -- how many programs would you say are, in reality, consistently in the Sweet 16? I can come up with Duke, UK, KU, UNC, Michigan State, UVA, maybe Gonzaga, and Arizona (till the past couple years). This is off the top of my head and I'm probably missing one or two, but not many. OU is a step below, and was even under Kelvin. It wasn't like we made the Sweet 16 more years than not in his 12 years. And I LOVE Kelvin. Realistically, if we make it once every three or four years, we'd be ahead of 95% of the country. And unless we suddenly develop a fan base that cares enough about the sport to fill more than half the arena, it will be extremely difficult to take the leap into that top tier.

I think the point that belies your own post is the fact that baylor and ksu are clearly out doing oklahoma.... i remember not that long ago baylor hadnt beaten us in like 7 straight presidential administrations or some crazy stat like that. (Someone pin that down for me)

I don't care that we lost to them. They're better. But we got curb stomped at home.. and baylor is playing without a 16 pt a game player... whats our excuse? What would we look like if we lost Christian james for the season??? How is crappy Drew able to still be in the top of the big 12 while weathering that?

The trajectory is completely down minus the great recruiting class ON PAPER that kruger is pulling in. I think he does little to develop talent further. But hed better this time..

 

[sooner 1234]

Riding Buddy's coattails? How is he, or anyone else, doing that? I love Buddy -- probably my favorite Sooner ever. But his first two years, he was a nice, complimentary player -- not a star, and definitely not a guy who was solely responsible for taking the team to the tournament. It was nothing short of a miracle for Kruger to get the team to the tourney in his second and third years as coach, given the mess he inherited. He accomplished as much in just those two seasons as Capel did his entire career.

What makes no sense to me is how so many posters seem incapable of any measured, rational take. Less than a month ago, regular posters were arguing that we were better than KU, or that we had a better chance to make a March run. That was crazy talk. We have several nice players and, until the last two weeks, played hard every night, but our talent was not even close to KU's. Now, three or four weeks later, there are people saying we might lose our last 11 games and suggesting an overhaul is needed. And when March comes around, if we make the tourney but lose early, people will say the season was a failure, even though many of those people said before the season that we would be doing well to finish above .500. and that they would be thrilled to make the tourney

But as Gar points out, the really annoying this is when people like you stay away from the board entirely when things are going well, but can't wait to take shots as soon as the team struggles. You claim to love the program, but I honestly think you are happy when something like last night happens, so you can get on here and complain.

And without Googling, I doubt you could name 10 assistant coaches in the conference.

When is the season going well the last three years ? You never know how good a win is in DEC , a lot of these wins don’t look so good come Feb .

I’m annoying to you because you are homer , simple as that . You live on this board and anything negative towards OU you take in personal insult .
You are so consumed with it you can’t even look at a struggling program without being bias .
You want this board to be all peaches and cream , Heck let’s put a unicorn horn horse pigs .
We can all sit around holding hands talking about Buddy’s half court buzzer beater in the big 12 tourney that in your opinion was good .

That’s homer messenger board land ...... I’m just a fan that lives in reality .

In the real world ....this isn’t a slump , just an off night or just the fact that other teams are better .

We arent even competitive in our own conference anymore .... for MULTIPLE seasons .

We haven’t improved as team from the start to the end of the season going on three years in row .

A complete downhill slide year after year after year .

Well coached teams improve , we don’t even stay the same .... we get worse.

I hate it for Lon because he is all class but that’s coaching ....it seldom ends well , even for great coaches .

I think a complete turnaround or a continuing downward spiral, either way Lon won’t be here 2 to 3 years from now .

I would love to see him go out with another deep tourney run but I have a bad feeling it’s going to end going on the other direction .

You can call me anything you want , but that won’t change the current state of this program .

 

[WichitaSooner]

When is the season going well the last three years ? You never know how good a win is in DEC , a lot of these wins don’t look so good come Feb .

I’m annoying to you because you are homer , simple as that . You live on this board and anything negative towards OU you take in personal insult .
You are so consumed with it you can’t even look at a struggling program without being bias .
You want this board to be all peaches and cream , Heck let’s put a unicorn horn horse pigs .
We can all sit around holding hands talking about Buddy’s half court buzzer beater in the big 12 tourney that in your opinion was good .

That’s homer messenger board land ...... I’m just a fan that lives in reality .

In the real world ....this isn’t a slump , just an off night or just the fact that other teams are better .

We arent even competitive in our own conference anymore .... for MULTIPLE seasons .

We haven’t improved as team from the start to the end of the season going on three years in row .

A complete downhill slide year after year after year .

Well coached teams improve , we don’t even stay the same .... we get worse.

I hate it for Lon because he is all class but that’s coaching ....it seldom ends well , even for great coaches .

I think a complete turnaround or a continuing downward spiral, either way Lon won’t be here 2 to 3 years from now .

I would love to see him go out with another deep tourney run but I have a bad feeling it’s going to end going on the other direction .

You can call me anything you want , but that won’t change the current state of this program .

You are so out of touch, it's laughable. I am not remotely a homer. I've been critical of the team as a whole and multiple players just in the past 24 hrs. You won't find any examples of me predicting a 5-0 stretch or counting any game as a sure win because I'm never that naive. I also am the same guy who got flak from people a month ago when I disagreed with the sentiment that our guards give us an advantage over KU, among others. But I have enough restraint to not post every crazy thought that pops to mind in the heat of the moment. I also realize that every fan base in America thinks they'll never win again when they hit a rough patch. You think Wisconsin felt great a couple weeks ago? Or KSU after getting rolled by Texas in Manhattan? Or Nebraska right now?

I look at each season in its entirety. Two years ago was a disaster, and while injuries and horrible player leadership played a big role, clearly the coach bears some responsibility for that. Last season was as odd a year as I've seen for any team in any sport. The last two months were painful. Poor effort and terrible basketball. Do I sound like a homer? But you can't even bring yourself to acknowledge that the team did some good things the first two months. Again, who is the one can't see reality?

And something tells me that when Buddy's buzzer beater was waved off after the review, you were pumped since it made it easier for you complain about how we played that night. You were probably predicting an early exit from the Big Dance, then went radio silent till midway through the first half of the Villanova game.

 

[BCSooners]

I hated last year as much as anybody but they still made the tournament. That is this program's historical state. 1) Make the tournament consistently 2) have a special group take a final 4 run with some other runs in their as well 3) about every 4-5 years miss the tournament.

Barring a complete slide, which I HIGHLY doubt will happen, this team makes the tourney easily. They probably only need 3-4 more wins to do so.

 

[sperry]

The irony of this season is that I think Lon's done a very good coaching job which got us a super-inflated record, and is now getting the fan's riled up.

This season was supposed to be a finish in the basement of the conference with a losing record type year. We have played way above our talent level this year.

If you don't believe me, look at our record against the spread. We are 16-4 ATS. Lon did a phenomenal job, but cracks in the armor are showing. The grad transfers in particular have kind of fallen apart.

Next year, we will have a much, much more talented team on the floor.

 

[BCSooners]

The irony of this season is that I think Lon's done a very good coaching job which got us a super-inflated record, and is now getting the fan's riled up.

This season was supposed to be a finish in the basement of the conference with a losing record type year. We have played way above our talent level this year.

If you don't believe me, look at our record against the spread. We are 16-4 ATS. Lon did a phenomenal job, but cracks in the armor are showing. The grad transfers in particular have kind of fallen apart.

Next year, we will have a much, much more talented team on the floor.

Agreed, most fans (including me) thought that double digit wins with this schedule would have been the over/under.

 

[sperry]

Agreed, most fans (including me) thought that double digit wins with this schedule would have been the over/under.

Me too. The grad transfers played really well to start the year, but have crashed back to earth. Which I don't entirely understand, because we were playing high level competition early on too. It's not like they were padding stats against creampuffs.


Oh well. Lon did a horrible job of recruiting for a 5 year stretch, but he delivered with a very good one for next year. Since they didn't fire him after last season, it doesn't make any sense to get rid of him after this one. The damage was done a while ago, but things are trending in the right direction.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Me too. The grad transfers played really well to start the year, but have crashed back to earth. Which I don't entirely understand, because we were playing high level competition early on too. It's not like they were padding stats against creampuffs.


Oh well. Lon did a horrible job of recruiting for a 5 year stretch, but he delivered with a very good one for next year. Since they didn't fire him after last season, it doesn't make any sense to get rid of him after this one. The damage was done a while ago, but things are trending in the right direction.

The teams we beat that could be considered "high level" most years are not any good this year. Wichita State, Notre Dame, Creighton, Florida, Northwestern. They had recent success but this is a down year for them as well. Don't get me wrong, I was excited about those wins too but at this point they can't be considered "high level". JMO.

 

[Big Old Booger]

The two teams you mentioned ARE TIED FOR FIRST as we approach the midway point. The losses themselves were awful because of how we played, but it is getting tiresome to read so many people act as if we lost to two crappy teams. If you don't think KSU and Baylor will finish in the upper tier of the conference, fine, but as of now, that is just a guess on your part. Last I looked, standings are still determined by who wins games on the floor, not by Kenpom or other metrics. And in the Big 12, even middle of the pack teams are good opponents.

As to your last point -- how many programs would you say are, in reality, consistently in the Sweet 16? I can come up with Duke, UK, KU, UNC, Michigan State, UVA, maybe Gonzaga, and Arizona (till the past couple years). This is off the top of my head and I'm probably missing one or two, but not many. OU is a step below, and was even under Kelvin. It wasn't like we made the Sweet 16 more years than not in his 12 years. And I LOVE Kelvin. Realistically, if we make it once every three or four years, we'd be ahead of 95% of the country. And unless we suddenly develop a fan base that cares enough about the sport to fill more than half the arena, it will be extremely difficult to take the leap into that top tier.

Those 2 teams are tied for first now but does anyone think they will be there at the end of the season? KSU always slides late in the season under Weber but he can sure beat us. Baylor has Scott Drew, I would be stunned if they finish 1 or 2 or even 3. They are good teams but we got spanked by both of them. We weren't even in the games. That's the bad part, not losing.

 

[sperry]

The teams we beat that could be considered "high level" most years are not any good this year. Wichita State, Notre Dame, Creighton, Florida, Northwestern. They had recent success but this is a down year for them as well. Don't get me wrong, I was excited about those wins too but at this point they can't be considered "high level". JMO.

Those are teams that play in the top conferences in basketball. They aren't at the top of those conferences, but for the most part they are competitive. And critical to the point, those guys are full of athletes that would not be out of place in the Big XII. We were worried about their ability to play against major conference competition, and in the non-con season they stepped up to the task.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Those are teams that play in the top conferences in basketball. They aren't at the top of those conferences, but for the most part they are competitive. And critical to the point, those guys are full of athletes that would not be out of place in the Big XII. We were worried about their ability to play against major conference competition, and in the non-con season they stepped up to the task.

OK, I can see what you are saying and I agree with you there.

 

[sooner 1234]

The irony of this season is that I think Lon's done a very good coaching job which got us a super-inflated record, and is now getting the fan's riled up.

This season was supposed to be a finish in the basement of the conference with a losing record type year. We have played way above our talent level this year.

If you don't believe me, look at our record against the spread. We are 16-4 ATS. Lon did a phenomenal job, but cracks in the armor are showing. The grad transfers in particular have kind of fallen apart.

Next year, we will have a much, much more talented team on the floor.

Actually this this Lons third year after a final four appearance , this season we should be reaping the benifits of that with some very talented Soph and juniors .
We are they ?
Bad development and bad talent evaluation ......it’s not like we have had bad luck with mass injuries .
We had to sell out on grad transfers just to more than likely finish towards the bottom of the conference .
I agree no one was expecting finish in the top 2 or 3 of the big 12 , but is it asking too much to improve as the season goes on ?
Further more why applaude Lons job this year , when it’s his own mess he has made ?

 

[BoulderSooner]

Actually this this Lons third year after a final four appearance , this season we should be reaping the benifits of that with some very talented Soph and juniors .
We are they ?
Bad development and bad talent evaluation ......it’s not like we have had bad luck with mass injuries .
We had to sell out on grad transfers just to more than likely finish towards the bottom of the conference .
I agree no one was expecting finish in the top 2 or 3 of the big 12 , but is it asking too much to improve as the season goes on ?
Further more why applaude Lons job this year , when it’s his own mess he has made ?

everyone's expectation (including the player and his family) was to have a guy currently averaging 16.5 and 7.3 in the nba back at PG this season

 

[BCSooners]

everyone's expectation (including the player and his family) was to have a guy currently averaging 16.5 and 7.3 in the nba back at PG this season

As well as McGusty who'd have been the 2nd leading scorer if he was committed to winning.

 

[sperry]

Actually this this Lons third year after a final four appearance , this season we should be reaping the benifits of that with some very talented Soph and juniors .
We are they ?
Bad development and bad talent evaluation ......it’s not like we have had bad luck with mass injuries .
We had to sell out on grad transfers just to more than likely finish towards the bottom of the conference .
I agree no one was expecting finish in the top 2 or 3 of the big 12 , but is it asking too much to improve as the season goes on ?
Further more why applaude Lons job this year , when it’s his own mess he has made ?

1) Lon hasn't recruited well. That's not a secret.
2) You aren't going to improve as the season goes along when you play out of your damn minds for the first 2 months. When you are playing as good as you possibly can, there is nowhere to go but down.
3) Because Lon has done a good job this year. He didn't do a good job fielding a roster devoid of talent, but he's done a good job with the guys who are there.

 

[sooner 1234]

everyone's expectation (including the player and his family) was to have a guy currently averaging 16.5 and 7.3 in the nba back at PG this season

Guess what , we would still have a losing record in conference play .