Bill Self to the Thunder?

[WTSooner]

Dude, moving the goalposts after you lose your argument is just weak.

But trying to pick apart every borderline players' height isn't?

The comment was about Westbrook. I threw out 6'6. I'd still consider 20% or so pretty low. Even lower with a current list. Even lower if we drop it down to Westbrook's actual height. Even lower still if we look at the last 30 years.

 

[152219]

Do you realize that you and the previous poster just described almost every offense that has a superstar? It's not like there is a 35 second shot clock in the NBA. IF a set play is run and it doesn't work, you don't have time to run another play

The issue is that the Thunder from what I've seen don't have a go-to pick and roll offense or another wrinkle once their initial offense stalls. As a Mavs fan I can speak of what they do, but once their initial set doesn't work they almost automatically go to a pick and roll offense with Dirk (if that was the original set). Helps that Dirk is one of the best pick and roll players in NBA history.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

If the Thunder don't win the NBA Championship this year, you can't argue that Westbrook is a top 5 player and that Scott Brooks should have a job.

oh come on.

 

[Ham]

Of course he was. Shaq made 58.2% of his shots over his career. Nash made 49%. Shaq had almost twice the attempts and made 18.8% more of them. That is statistically significant.

Also statistically significant...number of dunks and layups.

I hate/hated both of these guys as players. Although both of them seem like cool dudes off the court. Especially Shaq. Although I really really hated Shaq as a Laker. But in fairness, I'd hate anyone as a Laker.

That said, Shaq's 58% is super inflated by dunks and layups.
He couldn't hit free throws to save his life. If the comparison is with Nash or 3/4's of the guards that have ever played in the NBA, sorry, they're all better shooters than Shaq. FT's prove it out.

 

[152219]

But trying to pick apart every borderline players' height isn't?

The comment was about Westbrook. I through out 6'6. I'd still consider 20% or so pretty low. Even lower with a current list. Even lower if we drop it down to Westbrook's actual height. Even lower still if we look at the last 30 years.

No one was trying to pick apart every borderline players' height. Just making an observation. And you said "not many" sub 6'6" guys....28% of an official NBA list is more than "not many".

 

[SoonerBounce13]

You guys have stumbled into why Westbrook is not and will never be a top 5 player in the league. Not even top 10 to be honest. If Westbrook was the best player on a team would that team be top 10 in the league? Nope.

He's not tall enough. It's not because a PG has too many assists or shoots too much, rather that they have the ball in their hands too much. And the further you go in the playoffs the more likely the other team has a bigger defensive stopper who can disrupt that smaller PG.

The elite players in the NBA can post up at will. Magic, Bird, Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Dirk, Lebron. The ball moves freely amongst all 5 players to keep the defense spread out. But when push comes to shove you have the finisher who can post up when the chips are down.

We have seen it time after time, the great PG's come up short ... because at the end of the day they are too short.

wow...just wow. where do you pull this stuff out of?

 

[SoonerBounce13]

There's a 24 second shot clock and you don't see very many teams get bogged down like the Thunder do.

you don't watch many other teams then

 

[steverocks35]

you don't watch many other teams then

Let me rephrase that, it does happen to other teams, but it seems to happen to the Thunder more often. (I actually watch quite a bit of NBA basketball).

 

[WTSooner]

No one was trying to pick apart every borderline players' height. Just making an observation. And you said "not many" sub 6'6" guys....28% of an official NBA list is more than "not many".

I think "current list" was implied. But suit yourself.

 

[152219]

I think "current list" was implied. But suit yourself.

There is no current list.

 

[steverocks35]

There is no current list.

And wouldn't a current list include guys like Allen Iverson, Chris Paul, and Steve Nash?

 

[bocabull]

Also statistically significant...number of dunks and layups.

That said, Shaq's 58% is super inflated by dunks and layups.

It's not inflated. It's actual. It really happened. And it really happened to the tune of 3 NBA Finals MVPs.

Nash? Never made the finals. It's not because he's not great. It's because the laws of Physics alway catch up with smaller players.

And I love Nash. He lives two blocks from me and shoots at the same outdoor court I go to play. If you watch those Grantland videos you can see my hood.

 

[steverocks35]

I think "current list" was implied. But suit yourself.

You said "Go check the top 50 NBA players of all time list".

The only one of those that exists came out in 1996.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

It's not inflated. It's actual. It really happened. And it really happened to the tune of 3 NBA Finals MVPs.

Nash? Never made the finals. It's not because he's not great. It's because the laws of Physics alway catch up with smaller players.

Are you really trying to say that shaq is a better shooter than nash?

And IDK, maybe nash never made it to the finals because his teams were not good enough. nah, that's unrealistic. it has to be that he was just too short

And I love Nash. He lives two blocks from me and shoots at the same outdoor court I go to play. If you watch those Grantland videos you can see my hood.

lol

 

[campbest]

The issue is that the Thunder from what I've seen don't have a go-to pick and roll offense or another wrinkle once their initial offense stalls. As a Mavs fan I can speak of what they do, but once their initial set doesn't work they almost automatically go to a pick and roll offense with Dirk (if that was the original set). Helps that Dirk is one of the best pick and roll players in NBA history.

Problem is for the most part, the defense doesn't have to move side to side with any ball reversal. So when a play does break-down, there is generally no room for isolation and they are forced into contested jumpers.

OKC runs a lot of one hitter plays, elevator screen at the high post, pin down for Durant, etc. But when those get denied or their is ball pressure to deny the entry pass (where Memphis excels), then it becomes isolation, mid-range jumper time.

And isolation jumpers statistically are the worst shot in half court basketball.

 

[bocabull]

In the last 45 years, since the Bill Russell (Finals MVP) award was established, here are the only 6'3" or smaller Champion MVPs:

1976 - Jo Jo White - 6'3"
1989 - Joe Dumars - 6'3"
1990 - Isiah Thomas - 6'1"
2004 - Chauncey Billups - 6'3"
2007 - Tony Parker - 6'2"

Derek Fish has won as many titles. A PG is the worst bang for your buck in the NBA. After looking at the data I hope the Lakers don't go after Kyrie Irving. Too much salary for a position that doesn't have a good track record of championships.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Problem is for the most part, the defense doesn't have to move side to side with any ball reversal. So when a play does break-down, there is generally no room for isolation and they are forced into contested jumpers.

OKC runs a lot of one hitter plays, elevator screen at the high post, pin down for Durant, etc. But when those get denied or their is ball pressure to deny the entry pass (where Memphis excels), then it becomes isolation, mid-range jumper time.

And isolation jumpers statistically are the worst shot in half court basketball.

I don't remember the time frame but there was a period in the season when our offense looked awesome and the ball was really moving. I finally thought something clicked and it looked like that for awhile. It might have been when we beat miami in miami but don't remember.

 

[steverocks35]

In the last 45 years, since the Bill Russell (Finals MVP) award was established, here are the only 6'3" or smaller Champion MVPs:

1976 - Jo Jo White - 6'3"
1989 - Joe Dumars - 6'3"
1990 - Isiah Thomas - 6'1"
2004 - Chauncey Billups - 6'3"
2007 - Tony Parker - 6'2"

Derek Fish has won as many titles. A PG is the worst bang for your buck in the NBA. After looking at the data I hope the Lakers don't go after Kyrie Irving. Too much salary for a position that doesn't have a good track record of championships.

So I guess the Clippers should trade Chris Paul for Byron Mullens?

 

[SoonerBounce13]

In the last 45 years, since the Bill Russell (Finals MVP) award was established, here are the only 6'3" or smaller Champion MVPs:

1976 - Jo Jo White - 6'3"
1989 - Joe Dumars - 6'3"
1990 - Isiah Thomas - 6'1"
2004 - Chauncey Billups - 6'3"
2007 - Tony Parker - 6'2"

Derek Fish has won as many titles. A PG is the worst bang for your buck in the NBA. After looking at the data I hope the Lakers don't go after Kyrie Irving. Too much salary for a position that doesn't have a good track record of championships.

not sure why you have to qualify it with MVP

 

[campbest]

I don't remember the time frame but there was a period in the season when our offense looked awesome and the ball was really moving. I finally thought something clicked and it looked like that for awhile. It might have been when we beat miami in miami but don't remember.

Regular season defenses don't give half the effort that they do in the playoffs.

The Miami game was a perfect storm, might have been the best team shooting performance for the season. Everyone was hitting 3's.