Bill Self to the Thunder?

[152219]

More than distributing pg's, I'd say it's pg's that don't take the shot load that Westbrook does. You are right, there have been pg's that really haven't done much at all that have won titles. How? Because they've played next to Lebron/Wade. Or next to Allen/Pierce/KG (Rondo had low assist numbers for that 2008 Championship, but was certainly a bigger driving force when they should have won a couple of years later). So I think if you look at it in those terms.....either being a big assist guy, or simply being a guy that does much of nothing, just facilitates the offense, and gets the ball to Lebron, or Dirk, or whomever to make plays, I think those types of pg's make up the vast majority of Championship winning pg's in recent history. I can't think of anybody that is really like Westbrook. I might be forgetting somebody, but I can't think of it. Having a great SF or SG, a scoring pg that is a volume shooter, and pretty mediocre offense everywhere else hasn't really been a recipe to win NBA Championships. Right?

Except Chalmers doesn't facilitate the offense unless you are speaking of spotting up for 3 pointers as he is instructed to do.

As for Westbrook, he has always reminded me of Dwyane Wade, in particular when Wade played PG early in his career. Should the Thunder move Westbrook to SG like the Heat did with Wade?

 

[campbest]

Except Chalmers doesn't facilitate the offense unless you are speaking of spotting up for 3 pointers as he is instructed to do.

As for Westbrook, he has always reminded me of Dwyane Wade, in particular when Wade played PG early in his career. Should the Thunder move Westbrook to SG like the Heat did with Wade?

It appears that is the plan, especially with small line-ups and Reggie Jackson running the point. However, appears he isn't ready, may never be.

 

[WTSooner]

Considering that the offense is slower, Parker in his career has taken 16.4 shots/postseason game and Westbrook has taken 19.8. Considering pace, which players is taking a larger % of his team's shots? I'm guessing it is probably pretty close to even. So, is Parker a shoot first PG?

Maybe. I don't have time to dig in. But like I said, he gets away with it b/c for his career he shoots .495 from the field compared to .433 from Westbrook. And those numbers from three are closer, but Parker has been much better the last 5-7 years of his career from three, so that gap widens in that regards.

And if you look at it in terms of their playoff careers, I think the same thing shows up. For their careers, in the postseason, Westy averages 4 more field goal attempts per game, yet shoots it worse from the field, and worse from 3.

And if you pull up their playoff games logs, you'll also see that, for example, in 2007, the last time the Spurs won the Championship, there were no bad games from Parker. No games where he shot under 40%. Not games where he hoisted up 30 shots at a low percentage. Now check Westy's from 3 years ago, and he had several games like that.

This isn't an exact science. You are going to find a handful of exceptions.

 

[WTSooner]

Should the Thunder move Westbrook to SG like the Heat did with Wade?

Maybe. Especially if they can find a good pg. But the problem is they need to upgrade somewhere else on offense. Simply sliding him over doesn't solve the problem. And he needs to be more efficient. If he wants to keep hoisting up 28 and 32 shots per game in playoff games, he can't be shooting below 40% in those games. Almost guarantees a loss.

 

[steverocks35]

How can it be that Westbrook is considered the gunner and Parker the distribute first PG when RW averages more assists per game? In fact Westbrook averages more assists, rebounds, steals, and plays better defense than Parker. I'll take Westbrook every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

[steverocks35]

And no, the Thunder are not going to move RW to shooting guard.

 

[152219]

Maybe. I don't have time to dig in. But like I said, he gets away with it b/c for his career he shoots .495 from the field compared to .433 from Westbrook. And those numbers from three are closer, but Parker has been much better the last 5-7 years of his career from three, so that gap widens in that regards.

And if you look at it in terms of their playoff careers, I think the same thing shows up. For their careers, in the postseason, Westy averages 4 more field goal attempts per game, yet shoots it worse from the field, and worse from 3.

And if you pull up their playoff games logs, you'll also see that, for example, in 2007, the last time the Spurs won the Championship, there were no bad games from Parker. No games where he shot under 40%. Not games where he hoisted up 30 shots at a low percentage. Now check Westy's from 3 years ago, and he had several games like that.

This isn't an exact science. You are going to find a handful of exceptions.

Parker had a number of really mediocre playoff games early in his career where he shot 4-18, 7-23, etc. And that is with Duncan and Manu in their primes. He is a shoot first PG.

And that wasn't with playing with 2 completely inept offensive players like Westbrook does currently where he has to take a number of bad shots each game because the Thunder's offense puts him in those situations.

Let it be reiterated...I am NOT a Thunder fan.

 

[steverocks35]

Parker had a number of really mediocre playoff games early in his career where he shot 4-18, 7-23, etc. And that is with Duncan and Manu in their primes. He is a shoot first PG.

And that wasn't with playing with 2 completely inept offensive players like Westbrook does currently where he has to take a number of bad shots each game because the Thunder's offense puts him in those situations.

Let it be reiterated...I am NOT a Thunder fan.

Exactly, many times the reason Russ takes a bad shot is that the ball happens to be in his hands when the offense has stalled and the shot clock is running down. This can't be emphasized enough. I may track it in the next game out of curiosity.

 

[WTSooner]

Parker had a number of really mediocre playoff games early in his career where he shot 4-18, 7-23, etc. And that is with Duncan and Manu in their primes. He is a shoot first PG.

And that wasn't with playing with 2 completely inept offensive players like Westbrook does currently where he has to take a number of bad shots each game because the Thunder's offense puts him in those situations.

Let it be reiterated...I am NOT a Thunder fan.

Did the Spurs win Championships those years? They may have. He didn't have games like that in 2007 though.

And my bad, I forgot you weren't a Thunder fan.

 

[steverocks35]

Also I hear people say, "Westbrook needs to take it to the basket more". Well, there's an interesting stat in the SI article above, the guard that has the most shots inside the restricted area in the NBA is **drum roll**, Russell Westbrook.

 

[JBaker]

If the Thunder don't win the NBA Championship this year, you can't argue that Westbrook is a top 5 player and that Scott Brooks should have a job.

 

[hoopsaustin]

How can it be that Westbrook is considered the gunner and Parker the distribute first PG when RW averages more assists per game? In fact Westbrook averages more assists, rebounds, steals, and plays better defense than Parker. I'll take Westbrook every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

ya... but you're just a homer.. westbrook sucks... we should trade him for sebastian telfair if they'd give him up --WT

 

[steverocks35]

If the Thunder don't win the NBA Championship this year, you can't argue that Westbrook is a top 5 player and that Scott Brooks should have a job.

What? If they don't win a title this year then Westbrook automatically isn't a top 5 player? That's VERY arguable.

I do think they have to make it to the Finals at least or Scott Brooks is toast.

 

[KCRuf/Nek]

Assists are more than getting your name in the box score after passing to someone hitting a jumper. A real PG makes the others around him better and puts them in a position to have the best chance to succeed. I'll always remember when LAC got Paul and in the first game you could just see the difference that he immediately made. I know criticizing parts of the Thunder isn't allowed by some here but wouldn't you like to see Westbrook slide over and have some like Conley running the point? Miami uses two guys to play the point even though they have James and Wade that could probably bring the ball up. JMO.

 

[BoulderSooner]

All you Westy fans are ignoring my post earlier. What teams have won a championship with a pg that shoots as much as Westbrook? Especially in recent years? Just doesn't happen often at all.

lbj plays pg for the heat

 

[BoulderSooner]

Except Chalmers doesn't facilitate the offense unless you are speaking of spotting up for 3 pointers as he is instructed to do.

As for Westbrook, he has always reminded me of Dwyane Wade, in particular when Wade played PG early in his career. Should the Thunder move Westbrook to SG like the Heat did with Wade?

wade never played pg for the heat

 

[WTSooner]

lbj plays pg for the heat

Then how come he doesn't qualify as a pg anywhere?

There is a difference in playing pg, and initiating your team's offense in the halfcourt.

 

[152219]

wade never played pg for the heat

His rookie year he played PG

 

[JBaker]

What? If they don't win a title this year then Westbrook automatically isn't a top 5 player? That's VERY arguable.

I do think they have to make it to the Finals at least or Scott Brooks is toast.

I'm saying if they don't win the championship than either they don't have 2 top 5 players, or Scott Brooks can't coach. For the record, I think Westbrook is more like a top 10 player, but Scott Brooks still can't coach.

 

[bocabull]

You guys have stumbled into why Westbrook is not and will never be a top 5 player in the league. Not even top 10 to be honest. If Westbrook was the best player on a team would that team be top 10 in the league? Nope.

He's not tall enough. It's not because a PG has too many assists or shoots too much, rather that they have the ball in their hands too much. And the further you go in the playoffs the more likely the other team has a bigger defensive stopper who can disrupt that smaller PG.

The elite players in the NBA can post up at will. Magic, Bird, Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Dirk, Lebron. The ball moves freely amongst all 5 players to keep the defense spread out. But when push comes to shove you have the finisher who can post up when the chips are down.

We have seen it time after time, the great PG's come up short ... because at the end of the day they are too short.