Buddy or Wayman?

There were a number of posters recently who argued for Price over Hield. I think those arguments are now null and void. And I loved Hollis.

There's no doubt that buddy is one of the all time best scorers in the history of college basketball, but he has yet to take us further on the court then price did. Price took us to a final four as a junior and to the elite eight as a senior where buddy just now got us past the sweet 16 as a senior. He did not get us a big 12 tournament championship and price won it 3 times.

There no doubt that buddy is way better than price as a player but if we are talking about careers, price has had a better career than buddy on the court...so far because a championship will change that.
 
There's no doubt that buddy is one of the all time best scorers in the history of college basketball, but he has yet to take us further on the court then price did. Price took us to a final four as a junior and to the elite eight as a senior where buddy just now got us past the sweet 16 as a senior. He did not get us a big 12 tournament championship and price won it 3 times.

There no doubt that buddy is way better than price as a player but if we are talking about careers, price has had a better career than buddy on the court...so far because a championship will change that.

Buddy was 2 time Big 12 POTY and likely the Wooden award winner. Price doesn't have those credentials.
 
Price was also playing in a weaker conference.

And many would argue that in the NCAA tourney when OU made the Final Four that Ace and not Hollis was OU's best player. Wasn't Ace the MOP of the West region that year?
 
Disagree. One year Texas, OU, and KU were all 1 seeds.

Yeah, I'd have to look back at some numbers and rosters, but I'm not sure about the conference strength argument. I know that RPI has looked favorably on the Big XII the last year or two, but NCAA tourney showings have begged to differ.
 
Price was also playing in a weaker conference.

i'm a big Hollis guy in this argument, but i don't think that's a criterion.

the Big XII in 200-early was very strong. Oklahoma, KU, UT, OSU...were all Final Four teams...Missouri made the Elite 8.....Tech and ATM were sweet 16 teams
 
Yeah, I'd have to look back at some numbers and rosters, but I'm not sure about the conference strength argument. I know that RPI has looked favorably on the Big XII the last year or two, but NCAA tourney showings have begged to differ.

Not to mention OSU made the final four the following year. So they had a good team. And Iowa state had good teams with fizer and Tinsley. And Kansas had some really good players in collision, gooden, heinrich.
 
Don't know about RPI but in 02, Texas was 2 points from making it 4 Big 12 teams to the Elite 8. 2003 If OU beat Cuse it was 3 teams to the Final Four for the conference.
 
I can see saying top to bottom the conference is better now. But the top of the Big 12 was so good from 2002-06 or so it can't really compare.
 
You're not going to win that argument. To many teams back then made final four appearances and it wasn't just the Kansas show back then either.

I think the key is KU is much more formidable now than under Roy. With Roy, they had great seasons every 3-4 years but the years between those they were marginal. Self has made them much better every year even though their tourney results don't reflect it.
 
I can see saying top to bottom the conference is better now. But the top of the Big 12 was so good from 2002-06 or so it can't really compare.

That's what I meant. We also didn't play each team twice back then. Being strong at the top of the conference doesn't mean as much when you play some of those good teams just once. So better top to bottom and playing all those strong teams twice was what I was thinking, but I can certainly see the other side.
 
I think the key is KU is much more formidable now than under Roy. With Roy, they had great seasons every 3-4 years but the years between those they were marginal. Self has made them much better every year even though their tourney results don't reflect it.

Let's not forget, we are talking about a ku team that made it to the championship game. A team that is better than this ku team. Also an OSU team that is maybe their all time best team with a player Kobe called the best defender he ever played against. And Texas had tj Ford and even though Ford didn't win big 12 poy, he did win national poy...which makes no sense.
 
Our conference was pretty weak in 2001, but was as tough in 2002 as it is now...lots of great competition for both Hollis and Buddy to go up against. Before this year, most fans had either Hollis or Stacey King as their 4th face on OU's Mt. Rushmore. After this past year, though, it's a tough sell to keep Buddy off it no matter what happens next weekend. If Hollis had not gotten injured right before the start of the 2003 NCAA Tournament (where he was a shell of himself), I think one might still have a strong argument to still have him ranked above Buddy...and it's certainly arguable that both should be on it, knocking off either Blake or Alvan.
 
Our conference was pretty weak in 2001, but was as tough in 2002 as it is now...lots of great competition for both Hollis and Buddy to go up against. Before this year, most fans had either Hollis or Stacey King as their 4th face on OU's Mt. Rushmore. After this past year, though, it's a tough sell to keep Buddy off it no matter what happens next weekend. If Hollis had not gotten injured right before the start of the 2003 NCAA Tournament (where he was a shell of himself), I think one might still have a strong argument to still have him ranked above Buddy...and it's certainly arguable that both should be on it, knocking off either Blake or Alvan.

Hollis had a lot of injuries. Remember the tooth embedded in his arm from Kelley Newton (I think) in the Indiana State game in 2001? I remember reading later they were afraid his arm might have to be amputated or something along those lines.
 
Hollis had a lot of injuries. Remember the tooth embedded in his arm from Kelley Newton (I think) in the Indiana State game in 2001? I remember reading later they were afraid his arm might have to be amputated or something along those lines.

Well, if there was an OU Mt. Rushmore for the "toughest" players, the question would be which two OU players would be joining Hollis Price and Corey Brewer?

I know I'm getting way off topic from the original post, so let me add one thing about Wayman vs. Buddy. While the rumor of me being a Wayman Tisdale fan is true, I won't hesitate to say that he didn't have anything close to Buddy's work ethic. What I like to tell people about Wayman is that he was a rare individual who had the ability to become a multi-millionaire in two completely different professions. The only problem with that in regards to hoops was that he didn't spend a lot of time honing his game. He was just a naturally amazing basketball player.
 
Our conference was pretty weak in 2001, but was as tough in 2002 as it is now...lots of great competition for both Hollis and Buddy to go up against. Before this year, most fans had either Hollis or Stacey King as their 4th face on OU's Mt. Rushmore. After this past year, though, it's a tough sell to keep Buddy off it no matter what happens next weekend. If Hollis had not gotten injured right before the start of the 2003 NCAA Tournament (where he was a shell of himself), I think one might still have a strong argument to still have him ranked above Buddy...and it's certainly arguable that both should be on it, knocking off either Blake or Alvan.

Hollis was beaten up in the Big 12 championship game against Mizzou. That definitely didn't help OU in the tourney.

But Hollis still wasn't Big 12 POTY or a consensus 1st team All American unlike King and Buddy their senior year.
 
Hollis had a lot of injuries. Remember the tooth embedded in his arm from Kelley Newton (I think) in the Indiana State game in 2001? I remember reading later they were afraid his arm might have to be amputated or something along those lines.

It was the player from Indiana St's tooth.
 
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