Can't beat bad officiating

[SoonerWarVet]

I think the game was fairly officiated (if anything we got a few bad calls to go our way throughout). That being said, the foul on the Nash dunk was horrendous especially late in the game like that. To disagree, would be plain dumb.

 

[WaymanFan]

I didn't see the OU game, but I can sympathize. MU got jobbed today in Arkansas.

I saw the last few minutes of that game and you are correct. In tight, tight games, home teams (especially with passionate fans) tend to get a couple of extra calls. That is why I'm not surprised the Pokes got them yesterday. We just weren't quite good enough to overcome it. Now, we have to win at home against Baylor and Iowa State to go 5-5 against the top five foes in the conference. Those are big games for us.

 

[Big Old Booger]

So u agree officiating was bad

Did you think you were texting somebody shorty?:ez-laugh:

 

[campbest]

I think the game was fairly officiated (if anything we got a few bad calls to go our way throughout). That being said, the foul on the Nash dunk was horrendous especially late in the game like that. To disagree, would be plain dumb.

Regardless, Je'lon isn't going to block that shot from behind, no reason to give up a free throw on a beaten play.

 

[CarlWeathers]

I though the flagrant on osby was a really stupid call. No way was that a flagrant foul.

I don't know that the officiating was terrible, but I noticed some foul calls that should have been let go and some no calls that should have been called on both sides.

 

[AdaSooner]

I though the flagrant on osby was a really stupid call. No way was that a flagrant foul.

I don't know that the officiating was terrible, but I noticed some foul calls that should have been let go and some no calls that should have been called on both sides.

As I said earlier, the official called an intentional foul, ruling that Osby played the player not the ball. The announcers said it was a flagrant one, but that's not what the official signaled when the call was made. The confusion was created by the announcer's commentary and their failure to correct their error.

In watching the replay a couple of times, Romero appeared to be making sure the play didn't result in two points and a free throw, and at the same time prevent the player from being injured. IMO, it was a good call.

Were there a few missed calls and some that should have been made? Absolutely. That could be said about every game I've seen for decades. Did the home team appear to have a slight edge down the stretch? Again, the answer is, yes. But on the whole, it was a fairly evenly called game for a contest between instate rivals who were going at it with everything they had left in the tank from start to finish.

 

[opsooner]

As I said earlier, the official called an intentional foul, ruling that Osby played the player not the ball. The announcers said it was a flagrant one, but that's not what the official signaled when the call was made. The confusion was created by the announcer's commentary and their failure to correct their error.

In watching the replay a couple of times, Romero appeared to be making sure the play didn't result in two points and a free throw, and at the same time prevent the player from being injured. IMO, it was a good call.

Were there a few missed calls and some that should have been made? Absolutely. That could be said about every game I've seen for decades. Did the home team appear to have a slight edge down the stretch? Again, the answer is, yes. But on the whole, it was a fairly evenly called game for a contest between instate rivals who were going at it with everything they had left in the tank from start to finish.

Ada, I don't believe there is a real difference between a flagrant 1 / intentional / technical any longer as far as penalty. The term intentional was replaced by flagrant 1 (assuming it is not flagrant 2). The technical foul is penalized the same as flagrant 1. I assume your point is just about where the contact took place and the difference of not swinging an elbow.

I don't think it was a good call but I don't have a huge problem with it either. The unfortunate part, as you noted, is that Ro was trying to be too nice and I think that is what caused the flargrant/intentional. If he had just gone for the ball he might have been OK. I also think Smart flops a lot so it might not have mattered either way. If it works then do it. His aggresiveness forces the refs to make calls.

I agree with you that, in general, this was just another road game where the home team gets the majority of the calls. The other part of it is that agressiveness also gets calls.

 

[AdaSooner]

Ada, I don't believe there is a real difference between a flagrant and intentional any longer.

Definitions. 4-29.2.c. In summary, flagrant 1 personal foul replaces the term intentional personal foul.

I don't think it was a good call but I don't have a huge problem with it either. The unfortunate part, as you noted, is that Ro was trying to be too nice and I think that is what caused the flargrant/intentional. If he had just gone for the ball he might have been OK. I also think Smart flops a lot so it might not have mattered either way. If it works then do it. His aggresiveness forces the refs to make calls.

I agree with you that, in general, this was just another road game where the home team gets the majority of the calls. The other part of it is that agressiveness also gets calls.

You're right, opsooner. My bad. It's been so long since I officiated high school ball, I'm not up on the rules like I used to be. I found where the NCAA changed the rule more than a year ago to match what the NBA is doing. The term for an intentional is now a flagrant 1; whereas, a flagrant 2 replaced the old term, flagrant, which is the more severe penalty of the two that could result in a rejection. Thanks for correcting my error!

 

[opsooner]

Well, the gist of what you said is right and I would not and was not arguing with a former ref :ez-laugh: It's just that the lawyers have added their influence on the terminology. :facepalm Refs no longer have to decide what is intentional or not; they just have to decide whether it was flagrant or not. It is much easier for them to say it looked flagrant to them than intentional to them. :ez-laugh:

You are right that what used to be call intentional can still be a technical and is not just the Flagrant 1 with the slow swinging elbows; it can be whatever the ref deems to be excessive or unnecessary.

 

[Salt City Sooner]

Well, the gist of what you said is right and I would not and was not arguing with a former ref :ez-laugh: It's just that the lawyers have added their influence on the terminology. :facepalm Refs no longer have to decide what is intentional or not; they just have to decide whether it was flagrant or not. It is much easier for them to say it looked flagrant to them than intentional to them. :ez-laugh:

You are right that what used to be call intentional can still be a technical and is not just the Flagrant 1 with the slow swinging elbows; it can be whatever the ref deems to be excessive or unnecessary.

Had an example of that in the just concluded WSU/Ill.St. game on ESPNU. An ISU player went up for a rebound & stuck his foot into the WSU players' (who was standing right in front of him in plain sight) chest/throat area. Refs weren't going to call anything but after ISU got fouled at the other end, Marshall brought it to the refs' attention & they ended up calling a flagrant 1 on the ISU player. Shocks' ended up winning by one on a 3 w/ 5 seconds left.

 

[Sawyer]

I saw the last few minutes of that game and you are correct. In tight, tight games, home teams (especially with passionate fans) tend to get a couple of extra calls. That is why I'm not surprised the Pokes got them yesterday. We just weren't quite good enough to overcome it. Now, we have to win at home against Baylor and Iowa State to go 5-5 against the top five foes in the conference. Those are big games for us.

I hate that that's the case.

Officiating is a hard job, but there's really no excuse for consistently making poor calls in favor of the home team. If an official can't consistently recognize a foul and make a call independent of what the crowd is doing, he needs to quit.

 

[Dr Sleep]

M'Baye's sixth foul and the play when Smart was totally out of control and fumbled away the rebound were huge plays. Both were terrible -- not questionable, but terrible -- calls. So was the phantom foul on Nash's second dunk late in the game. And the non-call on Grooms' turnover in OT when the defender clearly made the contact (it certainly would have been called if an OU defender had done the same to Smart). The "turnover" when the oswho player was on the ground and rolled under our guy's legs to bring him to the ground (can't remember which two players it was) and knock the ball loose.

Oh hell, I could go on and on. You tough guys who refuse to ever acknowledge the detrimental role officials can play in a game can rag on me all you like; I don't care. We didn't play perfectly, but we played well enough to win, and with evenhanded officiating, we would have.

I saw all of the above calls and all were really bad. With neutral officiating, OU would have won.

 

[NMSooner'80]

I'm glad we didn't get the game out here. I probably would have thrown some things.

Heck, I'm still mad about the game 10 years ago when Victor Williams made a shot that beat the buzzer about as much as I'm 21 years old (and I'm 55). For that matter, I'm also still mad about several calls in various OU-Kansas games over the years, "led" by the heinous "no basket" call in '87 when Stacey King threw one in from three-quarter court and the horn sounded when the ball was passing over midcourt in the air.

 

[Dignon003]

M'Baye's sixth foul and the play when Smart was totally out of control and fumbled away the rebound were huge plays. Both were terrible -- not questionable, but terrible -- calls. So was the phantom foul on Nash's second dunk late in the game. And the non-call on Grooms' turnover in OT when the defender clearly made the contact (it certainly would have been called if an OU defender had done the same to Smart). The "turnover" when the oswho player was on the ground and rolled under our guy's legs to bring him to the ground (can't remember which two players it was) and knock the ball loose.

If what you saw was accurate, the biggest ref mistake was letting M'Baye play after he got his 5th foul.

 

[DenverSooner]

If what you saw was accurate, the biggest ref mistake was letting M'Baye play after he got his 5th foul.

Is that the best you can do? You know what he meant.

 

[Dignon003]

Easy Killer.

 

[skyvue]

If what you saw was accurate, the biggest ref mistake was letting M'Baye play after he got his 5th foul.

My mistake was already mocked above. You're way late to the party.

 

[ByronHoustonsSweatyPalms]

I would ask AdaSooner or some of the other posters that have officiated, if they were ever intimidated into calls either intentionally or unintentionally. I'm sure that most good refs are never intentionally influenced. But from someone that has been there, what is it like to referee in a hostile environment?

 

[MNsooner]

My mistake was already mocked above. You're way late to the party.

Sloppy. Commenting on a thread he hasn't even read. I don't mind OSU fans showing up when they actually want to discuss things, but lazy insult posts that have already been covered? Come on. Let's make sure that doesn't happen again, Dignon003.

 

[Big Old Booger]

I'm glad we didn't get the game out here. I probably would have thrown some things.

Heck, I'm still mad about the game 10 years ago when Victor Williams made a shot that beat the buzzer about as much as I'm 21 years old (and I'm 55). For that matter, I'm also still mad about several calls in various OU-Kansas games over the years, "led" by the heinous "no basket" call in '87 when Stacey King threw one in from three-quarter court and the horn sounded when the ball was passing over midcourt in the air.

Heh...I thought of this play just today. I still remember Stacey hitting the shot and the officials said it didn't count. Replay showed it was clearly out of his hand before the buzzer.