Capel built this team - thanks coach.

[seniorsooner]

Re: Capel

While I agree, I'm pretty sure we didn't need a new thread on this. Could have just posted in the thread we had a few days ago.

:clap times 1,000,000

 

[stoops4pres]

Ok, well he was still getting 17/10 and could have came out as a first round pick.

Plus that team had Longar Longar (Sampson recruit) going for 12/6, Tony Crocker (Sampson recruit), Taylor Griffin (Sampson recruit) Austin Johnson (Sampson recruit), and David Godbold (Sampson recruit).

Capel accomplished nothing at OU. Sampson players and Blake Griffin did.

I thought, normally, coaches were supposed to have talented players on the team to win.

There's no doubt he was a first rounder; however, people often get confused and associate his freshman season compared to his sophomore season. That's the point I'm making.

Also, he did convince Crocker to not jump ship, and Taylor went on record saying the same (which Blake said was a big reason why he chose OU, due to Taylor's confidence in Capel). Pretty unfair to not give Capel credit for retaining them.

Kruger will get credit if he succeeds with Capel's guys. Capel should receive the same with Sampson's.

 

[WTSooner]

Also, he did convince Crocker to not jump ship,

To be fair, I think there is a quote out there by Crocker that basically says he was coming to OU no matter who we hired. A quote me made after Kelvin left, but before Capel was hired.

 

[stoops4pres]

I think Capel totally mismanaged Newell. That guy has shown pretty quickly this year that he has a bright future, but he was stuck struggling at point last year. And Capel communicated with his assistants via email about NCAA violations. I'm not sure what he saw in Taliaferro in the first place...

You could be on to something with Newell... With that being said, a year's experience could make a huge difference. Perhaps he wasn't mature enough last year to handle the role he is in now? That is a plausible scenario, given his propensity for being too selfish on the floor at times. But you could be right, it could end up being that Capel did mismanage him.

As for the emails, completely agree. That was a mistake on Capel. If he wants to succeed with his next head coaching gig, he's going to have to completely overhaul that method of communication (if that's the primary route he chose to communicate with his assistants).

Yes, he did recruit them, but this comparison between Blake and Capel seems to grow stronger as time goes on. I at least wouldn't say Capel is "much" more competent than Blake. He certainly isn't a major D-1 head coach at this time in his career.

Disagree. Capel has succeeded as a head coach. He even went to the NCAA Tournament at VCU. Went to the NCAA with two different teams, reached the Elite 8 with one of them... What did Blake do? Nothing. And he had plenty of talent to work with, as well.

If you look into it, you'll see there is absolutely no comparison between the two when regarding performance. Capel had flaws and deserved to be gone, but Blake was a much, much worse coach than Capel.

 

[stoops4pres]

To be fair, I think there is a quote out there by Crocker that basically says he was coming to OU no matter who we hired. A quote me made after Kelvin left, but before Capel was hired.

Good point, I forgot about that.

Taylor can just be included in that mix then. Still, an integral role player that Capel deserves credit for retaining.

 

[MNsooner]

Re: Capel

While I agree, I'm pretty sure we didn't need a new thread on this. Could have just posted in the thread we had a few days ago.

Good point. I merged the threads.

 

[Prodigal]

I think a lot of you guys are such extreme basketball fans that you can't be objective one way or the other.

For someone like me who is a mid-level fan who watches all the games when possible, but will only make the 3-hr trip to attend once a season unless they are really good, the following is obvious:

Many of the players the last two years didn't seem to know what they were doing, they didn't give good effort MUCH of the time, and they seemed to have serious character issues just from watching games. Throw in the bad feel that Capel gave off the last two years combined with some obvious huge mistakes (like Nate Carter not playing much early on), and almost all the mid-level fans like me have gone away and just lost interest in much of college basketball. That is directly due to Capel.

Other than that, Capel seems like a good guy and seemed to make sense as a hire back then, but to me he proved to be immature and out-of-his league, and not deserving of respect because of letting some of those guys act like they did on and off the court and represent our school. Still, I would probably have liked him a lot if he was my coach and if he had not let players get away with some of the stuff they did.

 

[schoonerdriver]

Kruger will get credit if he succeeds with Capel's guys. Capel should receive the same with Sampson's.

How did Capel do with Sampson's recruits compared to what Sampson did with his own recruits? To me Capel didn't surpass what Sampson was doing with those recruits so no credit is due.

 

[DenverSooner]

...... It's like the young NBA fans who think LaBron is the best player ever....

Or the middle aged fan like myself that think Michael Jordan or Magic Johnson were the best players with no real appreciation for the Big O or Wilt. I am not saying the Big O or Wilt were definitely better, I am just too young to have any real appreciation of those guys. Honestly, I am a bit young to even appreciate Dr. J (although I do remember watching Dr. J play, I don't think I ever saw the Big O or Wilt play).

 

[campbest]

Other than that, Capel seems like a good guy and seemed to make sense as a hire back then, but to me he proved to be immature and out-of-his league, and not deserving of respect because of letting some of those guys act like they did on and off the court and represent our school. Still, I would probably have liked him a lot if he was my coach and if he had not let players get away with some of the stuff they did.

This goes along with what I have been saying the last year, Capel's biggest problem is he couldn't handle running a program...which is a far different requirement than "coaching".

 

[stoops4pres]

How did Capel do with Sampson's recruits compared to what Sampson did with his own recruits? To me Capel didn't surpass what Sampson was doing with those recruits so no credit is due.

For the most part, Sampson's recruits (Longar, AJ, Taylor G) didn't do as well under Sampson as they did with Capel. If you don't believe me, see the numbers as the players' careers progressed. But I think that's due to both maturity and increase in playing time (since they were behind older guys when they first started off) more than a particular style of coaching. After all, Sampson was working with these guys when they were much younger, while Capel had them when they were more seasoned. So an improvement was to be expected.

Basically it's a pointless question to ask (no offense), because both KS and Capel worked with them under different scenarios.

 

[sooner8]

I really am surprised with all the "love fest"that J.Capel is getting..I also liked Capel up untill the end,but his coaching deficiencies were glaring,but the guy could recruit.Capel threw players on the floor without a working system to go by & could'nt handle the hot shots he recuited.He also, lest we forget , left with a cool million or so of OU"s money,so there is no love lost here.Thank goodness Coach Kruger is at OU & these players can see how a system works & produces winning basketball..GO SOONERS!!!!!

 

[DenverSooner]

For the most part, Sampson's recruits (Longar, AJ, Taylor G) didn't do as well under Sampson as they did with Capel. If you don't believe me, see the numbers as the players' careers progressed. But I think that's due to both maturity and increase in playing time (since they were behind older guys when they first started off) more than a particular style of coaching. After all, Sampson was working with these guys when they were much younger, while Capel had them when they were more seasoned. So an improvement was to be expected.

Basically it's a pointless question to ask (no offense), because both KS and Capel worked with them under different scenarios.

As I recall things, AJ started as true freshman under Sampson. Griffin did a solid job on the boards under Sampson. The few times Longar played he produced under Sampson. Longar was behind Taj Gray and Kevin Bookout. You are not going to get much PT in that situation. I see absolutely nothing to suggest Capel did a good job at developing players or really anything. Blake Griffin is the only reason they guy had any winning seasons.

Even the first year with Blake Griffin and Longar Longar, Capel was 9-7 in the Big XII. I am sorry but if you have a front court of Blake Griffin and Longar Longar you should do better in conference play. Capel also got blown out several times that year, including double digit losses to Memphis, USC, Texas (3 times), Kansas, Colorado, Nebraska and Lousiville. Capel also got beat by Stephen F. Austin State that year. I would not normally criticize a coach for a 23-12 season but when people want to tell me what a great job Capel did, I think you need some perspective on his second year. OU should have been better.

 

[badger]

Even if he built the team, he didn't win with it and when you make as much money as Felton J. the Third did, you are not being paid to build future teams, you are being paid to win now.

 

[stoops4pres]

As I recall things, AJ started as true freshman under Sampson.

He did in spurts. And he still produced better as he got older (which was under the Capel regime).

Griffin did a solid job on the boards under Sampson.

I recall him performing that way also. But how does a "solid" job of rebounding dispel the notion that he didn't improve as he got older, particularly in other aspects of his game?

The few times Longar played he produced under Sampson.

I remember us getting in a similar debate on this topic over this a year ago. He played well sparingly against awful competition, I don't think that is large enough sample size to reach the implication that he did better when Sampson happened to be the coach. So I'll agree to disagree with you on this one.

Longar was behind Taj Gray and Kevin Bookout. You are not going to get much PT in that situation.

Right, and I mentioned that in my previous post regarding this topic. To be clear, in no way am I suggesting Capel was a better developer of talent nor a better coach than KS. KS obviously was a much better coach at OU. Simply put, it's an apples-to-oranges comparison when observing both coaches that had Sampson's recruits, because like I said before KS had them when they were really young and playing behind veteran players. I think it is very likely that they would've had the same amount of success (at least) had KS stayed at OU before they matured. But with that being said, Capel deserves some credit for the improvement of these players; personally watching them I believe they improved, when they very well could've regressed under him instead.

Even the first year with Blake Griffin and Longar Longar, Capel was 9-7 in the Big XII. I am sorry but if you have a front court of Blake Griffin and Longar Longar you should do better in conference play. Capel also got blown out several times that year, including double digit losses to Memphis, USC, Texas (3 times), Kansas, Colorado, Nebraska and Lousiville. Capel also got beat by Stephen F. Austin State that year. I would not normally criticize a coach for a 23-12 season but when people want to tell me what a great job Capel did, I think you need some perspective on his second year. OU should have been better.

The Big 12 that year was one of the best it had been in basketball since its inception in 1996, it wasn't too shocking they finished 9-7. And they struggled early in the season when Blake was still figuring out how good he could really be at a consistent level. I think you are using a lot of arbitration in this, since you aren't even pointing out the positives of that season. They were a solid 6 seed for a reason.

I'm not saying Capel did a marvelous job that season. OU could've performed better given the roster he had, but at the same time he is not as inept of an X's and O's coach as some posters have been opining. That's my main point.

I see absolutely nothing to suggest Capel did a good job at developing players or really anything. Blake Griffin is the only reason they guy had any winning seasons.

:facepalm

 

[jerry]

Ok, well he was still getting 17/10 and could have came out as a first round pick.

Plus that team had Longar Longar (Sampson recruit) going for 12/6, Tony Crocker (Sampson recruit), Taylor Griffin (Sampson recruit) Austin Johnson (Sampson recruit), and David Godbold (Sampson recruit).

Capel accomplished nothing at OU. Sampson players and Blake Griffin did.

Agree.

 

[DenverSooner]

There's no doubt he was a first rounder; however, people often get confused and associate his freshman season compared to his sophomore season. That's the point I'm making.

Personally, I thought Blake Griffin was the best looking freshman I had ever seen at OU and possibly in the Big XII/Big 8. That statement needs a time reference because I did not really follow OU basketball when Wayman was a freshman. I am not suggesting Blake as a freshman was better than Wayman.

Griffin did some incredible things his freshman year. Most notably to me was against A&M (I am pretty sure it was A&M). He tried to back a player into the lane, took the ball back out to the 3 point line and blew by his defender for a monster dunk. That was probably in January of his freshman year. I have seen very few guys do anything like it. Blake did things like that on a fairly regular basis as freshman. Blake made me feel bad for the rims and I fully expected him to dominate his sophomore season. He may have exceeded my expectations but it was pretty clear to me he was something special as a freshman.

 

[stoops4pres]

Personally, I thought Blake Griffin was the best looking freshman I had ever seen at OU and possibly in the Big XII/Big 8. That statement needs a time reference because I did not really follow OU basketball when Wayman was a freshman. I am not suggesting Blake as a freshman was better than Wayman.

Griffin did some incredible things his freshman year. Most notably to me was against A&M (I am pretty sure it was A&M). He tried to back a player into the lane, took the ball back out to the 3 point line and blew by his defender for a monster dunk. That was probably in January of his freshman year. I have seen very few guys do anything like it. Blake did things like that on a fairly regular basis as freshman. Blake made me feel bad for the rims and I fully expected him to dominate his sophomore season. He may have exceeded my expectations but it was pretty clear to me he was something special as a freshman.

No doubt Griffin was fantastic for a freshman. I don't know if he was the best to ever come out of the Big 12 (Durant and Beasley come to mind), but he was a stud. My point is that many associate him to have always been the unstoppable force since he walked on campus, when that wasn't the case. If I remember correctly, he didn't start flourishing at a consistent basis until well on through his freshman season, I believe deep into their non-conference schedule. He certainly wasn't the dominating presence he was his sophomore season, which is what I think people tend to forget.

 

[DenverSooner]

Raef Larents was really good looking freshman. I don't really recall Manning as a freshman but I suspect he was quite good. TJ Ford and some other Texas players have been awfully good at Texas.

 

[stoops4pres]

Raef Larents was really good looking freshman. I don't really recall Manning as a freshman but I suspect he was quite good. TJ Ford and some other Texas players have been awfully good at Texas.

Yeah both belong up there too. Ford's still the best passer I've seen at the college level in person. Pretty impressive to lead the nation in assists as a true freshman.