Coale love and hate

[Sweetest OU Girl]

There are no national championship on the men side, just like there are not for the ladies and most likely will not be or even a decent chance with this current staff in place. I want the women program to be up there with the contenders each year not fighting for 3rd place in the big 12, with a very experience ball club imo Sherri C = failed. Fire her, keep her, make her make changes to the staff, cut her pay..I don't care but she isn't getting it done imo

So what? If you want to post at least post something showing an understanding of WBB. You can't find a single response to Syb's post - and point?

All your posts are about what you want. Surprise, but what you want is the least important thing in the universe. Nobody cares what you want.

 

[inoref]

So what? If you want to post at least post something showing an understanding of WBB. You can't find a single response to Syb's post - and point?

All your posts are about what you want. Surprise, but what you want is the least important thing in the universe. Nobody cares what you want.

irrelevant, immaterial and wide left.

 

[tycat947]

So what? If you want to post at least post something showing an understanding of WBB. You can't find a single response to Syb's post - and point?

All your posts are about what you want. Surprise, but what you want is the least important thing in the universe. Nobody cares what you want.

:woot

 

[BanjoCharley]

+∞

 

[SoonerSpock]

So.
---the last men's basketball national championship was in_______?

Obviously, Tubbs, Sampson, and Kruger have no clue how to run a program. We have had a men's basketball program since 1908.

_____number of Final Fours that Sherri Coale has been to in her twenty years
_____number of Final Fours the men's program has been to in 109 years.

Ludicrous to compare teams from different sports. Dumb to hold Sherri Coale to the expectations for Bob Stoops. Likewise to compare performances for men's basketball and women's basketball. Nothing but trying to sell fool's gold.

Sherri set the standards of fan expectation for her teams fans. She did this by going to 3 Final Fours, 1 national championship game, 2 Sweet 16', winning 4 conference championships with 1 second place finish from 2002-2010.

She continues to sell that championships are the expectations for her teams. But she has followed up that 9 year period with 0 Final Fours, 0 championship games, 2 Sweet 16's, ? 2017 NCAA finish, 0 conference championships, 2 second place finishes 2011-2017. Many fans are rightly disappointed in her performance in recent years.

It would be unfair to Sherri to expect her to average a Final Four every three years, make the Sweet 16 better than 50% of the time as we should not expect her to win 44% of the conference championships.

However we should expect significantly better performance than we have had the last 7 years. How about 1-2 Elite Eight's or better every decade plus another 1-2 Sweet 16's. Also 2-3 conference championships per decade is a reasonable expectation. Any thing less is not getting the job done.

She is 7 years into the decline of OU WBB but still has 3 years to get the job done. But from my perspective she needs a couple more Sweet 16's and a couple more conference championships in the next 3 years to be on course.

Continue to perform as she has the last 7 years for the next 3 years and the question has the game passed her by is legitimate. If the answer is yes then it is time for Sherri to become a university V-P with a focus on promotion of the university or retire.

For certain it appears she is not currently on the path to the WBB success fans expect. She does still have a chance to close the season on a high note by winning a couple of NCAA games but beating a #11 seed Gonzaga 26-6 and #3 seed Washington 27-5 in Seattle will be no easy task for getting back to OKC.

An early loss means another dud season and mounting pressure on Sherri to turn things around. I guess the question becomes can Llanusa, Pellington and Simpson replace Carter, Little, Edwards, Wyatt and Kellogg and make OU a more successful team.

My take is freshmen seldom perform to the level imagined by most as freshmen. The step up to D-I WBB slows the process immensely. Hopefully the incoming class will be a step in the right direction but I think we are still two years away at best from competing at a higher level.

 

[Sooner Cal]

So.
---the last men's basketball national championship was in_______?

Obviously, Tubbs, Sampson, and Kruger have no clue how to run a program. We have had a men's basketball program since 1908.

_____number of Final Fours that Sherri Coale has been to in her twenty years
_____number of Final Fours the men's program has been to in 109 years.

That's not what I said or implied. The standard isn't win national championships, even in football. The standard is win the conference or at least be in the hunt most years. We didn't fire Blake for not winning a MNC, we fired him for not being competitive in the conference.

My point is simple, if you don't set the same standard for all sports, then you are accepting the outcome for any excuse you want to make.

I think that if we set a lower bar for women's sports than for men then we are doing so simply because it's only women. That's not acceptable.

 

[Sooner Cal]

It is sexist to not hold SC to the same standard as BS.

BS isn't expected to win Nationsl Championships, he's expected to compete for championships. Same should be true for all, especially those where attendance matters.

I guess some of you would be happy so long as football does ok. I don't see it that way. If we are going to pay salaries in the upper range, we should produce upper range results. In WBB that's consistently in the Top 10. In MBB that should be to consistently be an 8 seed or better in the dance.

 

[sybarite]

It is sexism. That is what about ninety percent of the complaints about Sherri Coale are about.

We don't win male national championships in basketball. But, we hold up the coach as being one of the better coaches around. We have never won a title, and rarely a conference championship in basketball.

In the 79 years of men's final fours, OU has made it five times. In 109 years of conferences, OU has won the regular season title 14 times. OU has been to the sweet sixteen ten times.

This is Sherri's twenty-first season. She has been to three Final Fours in twenty years. She has been to the Sweet Sixteen seven times and has three regular season conference championships. Only Bruce Drake took the men to more than one Final Four. Sherri has done it three times in the past fifteen years.

The men's program has never been cancelled.

So, you want to hold Sherri to higher standards than the men's coach? Based on what?

Don't even get started on football. The entire history of building a sports empire at OU was built on football. They have had every advantage.

 

[Pike Pastor]

The week the BIG 12 tourney started the Tulsa paper carried an imterview with Peyton Little . When asked about the Sooner motivation to play well, particularly the Seniors, Peyton's enthusiasm truly caught my eye.. she talked about how this team had not cut down a net in their time as Sooners, and the team desperately wanted to make that happen. " Wow, " I thought, "that's the kids of fire these girls will need to bring into OKC, and perhaps they can truly do some
Damage."
And then we witnessed the debacle against WVa and Sherri's sad, apologetic pressed. Clearly whatever fire Little referred to was only smoke, not a bit of heat. So where does the responsibility lie for that pitiful performance. Were the players scared? Unprepared? Outplayed? Devoid of the intestinal drive necessary to play with their hair on fire and push beyond setbacks? I can only offer what I saw: the Sooner women were flat, scared, unfocused, out of sync, out-muscled, out- hustled and thoroughly beaten. And some of that falls at the feet of these experienced, underperforming upperclassmen. They displayed precious little in the way of guts. And in my estimation more accountability falls on Coach Coale. It's her job to prepare the team in all aspects of the game..offense, defense, toughness, psychological warfare... there was no evidence of any of that, and to her credit SC took all the heat at the presser.. and that was kinda classy... and kinda pathetic to me

Previous posters have declared what I also believe must happen if OU WBB is to avoid hitting the iceberg of irrelevance...SC needs to hire new, energetic recruiters as assistants, and I realize that she will recoil and resist this move Here is where we discover how much power Joe has-- for the future of OUWBB will he exert the necessary pressure on SC, a beloved OU employee to be sure, to make the changes necessary to overhaul her assistant structure. If indeed SC dislikes recruiting then hire a special recruiting coordinator with some contacts in AUU circles, Texas high schools, etc.
it is probably too much to ask Sherri to change her coaching style very much, but whatever song she was singing this year got old, out of tune and finally barely played at all. Some expectations should be reasonably expected of this proud program that has now gone seven years without a conference title.

Will this happen? I'd say the odds are 60-40....

 

[SoonerSpock]

It is sexism. That is what about ninety percent of the complaints about Sherri Coale are about.

We don't win male national championships in basketball. But, we hold up the coach as being one of the better coaches around. We have never won a title, and rarely a conference championship in basketball.

In the 79 years of men's final fours, OU has made it five times. In 109 years of conferences, OU has won the regular season title 14 times. OU has been to the sweet sixteen ten times.

This is Sherri's twenty-first season. She has been to three Final Fours in twenty years. She has been to the Sweet Sixteen seven times and has three regular season conference championships. Only Bruce Drake took the men to more than one Final Four. Sherri has done it three times in the past fifteen years.

The men's program has never been cancelled.

So, you want to hold Sherri to higher standards than the men's coach? Based on what?

Don't even get started on football. The entire history of building a sports empire at OU was built on football. They have had every advantage.

No OU athletic team should be held to a performance standard above what they have previously achieved. Bud Wilkinson and Barry Switzer established that standard for football. Bob Stoops is expected to meet that standard. Bruce Drake, Billy Tubbs and Kelvin Sampson set the standards for MBB. Patty Gasso for softball, Mark Williams for men's gymnastics and KJ Kindler for women's gynmnastics, Port Robertson and Tommy Evans for wrestling, Enos Semore and Larry Cochell for baseball, John Roddick for men's tennis, Santiago Restrepo for Volleyball and Sherri Coale for WBB. Several other sports have never really established a standard for the fans including men's golf that won a national championship in 1989. The present coaches are working diligently to set those standards. Hopefully they will set them high.

Each sport has to be held to its own standard established by that programs past success. Sherri has only to live up to her on performance standards that she established in 2002-2010. The past 7 years have been mediocre compared to the previous 9 years. She has not lived up to the fans expectations she established for herself and the dwindling attendance at LNC that is less with each passing year screams that out loud and clear.

However, we should not expect the 2002-2010 as a minimum expectation but we should expect that to be the goal to strive to achieve. For certain expecting 1-3 conference championships, 1-3 Big 12 Tournament championships and 3-4 Sweet 16's a decade as a minimal acceptable performance standard is a reasonable from the fans perspective.

But she is going to have to step hard and fast to get to those standards in the decade following her last Final Four appearance. She only has 3 years left. What I think might be more reasonable is to disregard the mediocre performance for the last 7 years and set the expectations listed above for the coming decade 2018-2027.

But if we give Sherri that clean slate I would want to see progress starting immediately to improve not talking about what she did 10-19 years in the past. Her challenge should be what is she going to do now and in the future. She was extremely well paid for the past and we as fans do not what to dwell in that past. It is just a pleasant memory. Instead we want to rejoice in the present and anticipate the future not dread it.

 

[SKSooner]

Yup, Men's Gymnastics is on the verge of a third straight NC. Any coach who can't reach that standard should go.

Is this a serious post? There are only 16 teams that even compete nationally in men's gymnastics. Across the entire country! In all divisions. The comparison is about the most ridiculous one you could possibly dream up.

 

[BanjoCharley]

Sarcasm through and through. Seems to be what some power expect though.

 

[SKSooner]

Sorry, Banjo! My apologies. I was hoping that was the case, but I've just seen so much lately... (not from you)

 

[betterstill]

Forget the comparisons with other sports.

The stage has been set for perpetual humiliation by Baylor in our conference. Not even competitive losses. Texas has a chance to move near Baylor's level but they are not there yet. We are going to be an also ran unless something happens to improve our recruiting.

I have hopes (far fetched hopes) that some of these players we are recruiting will rise to the level of conference competitiveness. I do expect it to happen.

 

[SoonerSpock]

Forget the comparisons with other sports.

The stage has been set for perpetual humiliation by Baylor in our conference. Not even competitive losses. Texas has a chance to move near Baylor's level but they are not there yet. We are going to be an also ran unless something happens to improve our recruiting.

I have hopes (far fetched hopes) that some of these players we are recruiting will rise to the level of conference competitiveness. I do expect it to happen.

No comparison was made with other sports. Each sport was listed to illustrate how every sport had to be evaluated on its own as each sport's circumstances are unique.

 

[Oliver Hardy]

I am with those who think Sherri has to pick it up. However, I differ with those who might think she is not trying.

Clearly in the last two years her recruiting has improved a great deal -- frankly, IMO, it could have not gotten much worse, but it's better. We still aren't getting that top 10 to 20 kid consistently enough, but we are getting better players.

At the end of next season, along with recruiting successes/failures for 2019, let's see where the program stands.

At that point Joe C. has to decide if Sherri is doing enough, changing enough to deserve more time. If we get the same thing that we got last year and that we got too many times this year, then maybe consider changing.

I'm expecting better things next season, even though we will be a freshman dominated team. It seems to be clearing up that Sherri knows she has to do something, that something she has been doing isn't working to the program's best advantage.

She's smart, she's talented and she brings a lot to the table. Making the Sweet 16, the final 8 and final four and a conference championship are the goals now.

She has to do more than one in the next couple of years or she needs to go to another position at OU. She is too valuable to let her retire from OU completely.

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

No one wants us to win more than I do.

But this "pie in the sky" idea that we can easily fire SC (from WBB) and hire almost anyone and be dramatically better instantly is honestly silly.

How many other coaches have gotten their teams into 18 straight tournaments? Start with that list and see which of those you think we can hire - with less than we are paying SC now.

Let's use some common sense here.

 

[rocjunkie]

No one wants us to win more than I do.

But this "pie in the sky" idea that we can easily fire SC (from WBB) and hire almost anyone and be dramatically better instantly is honestly silly.

How many other coaches have gotten their teams into 18 straight tournaments? Start with that list and see which of those you think we can hire - with less than we are paying SC now.

Let's use some common sense here.

I have to agree with you. As a huge supporter of Sherri, she has to re-focus her priorities. Recruiting is getting better and I am extremely optimistic with our returners and freshman coming in. I find it hard to just dismiss a coach that has the fifth best current streak getting to the Tournament. True it gets tired seeing this team win one game then not advance past that. I don't see a coach on the horizon that can come in and pick up and go. Maybe there is someone out there. I am betting that Sherri can turn this around and get us back to where we need to be.

 

[Oliver Hardy]

As an athletic director, I would think you wouldn't think you are doing a good job if you just continued with mediocrity or lower than that from a coach just because she was once great for a period of time, no matter what their record and career have been like.

It happened to Pat Summit. It has happened to others. It will happen with Geno and Mulkey, Vandaveer, McGraw and all the rest. College football coaches at all levels understand that.

You have to do what is right for the continuation of high standards for a program AND a result, no matter how hard it might be to replace a legend.

Again, I don't think Sherri needs to be fired and I'm not afraid of replacing her. Someone good will come here because it's a huge step up in WCBB -- when it's time. I don't think it's time. In two years, which I believe is a right timeline for serious review depending upon outcomes, then it might be.

Let's cross that bridge when it comes to it. Now, next year, even with a bunch a freshmen, if we dog it up really, really, really, bad, you MIGHT have to look then. But I do not think that is likely.

 

[35TangoTango]

As an athletic director, I would think you wouldn't think you are doing a good job if you just continued with mediocrity or lower than that from a coach just because she was once great for a period of time, no matter what their record and career have been like.

Mediocrity???? :facepalm How many times in this millennium has this coach failed to finish in the top half of the conference? How many times in this millennium has this coach not made the NCAA tournament? This, my Hardy friend, however it fails to reach your expectations, is far from mediocrity.