Conference stats

Says it all. We are nothing special.


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Oliver Hardy said:
Says it all. We are nothing special.


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Click to expand...

It has been obvious from our first game that we were struggling to produce offense. That has not changed. I can't recall a year where we had so much trouble with that in the past.

I personally believe one of two things is the culprit.

1. We are not allowing a group of 6-7 players to play together as a starting 5 unit with a couple of reserves. That lets them get accustomed to each other and play as a team. Much of the time we look like a bunch of individuals dribbling around.

2. We do not have players other than KK who can score and Sherri is showing that by all the substitutions just hoping someone will step up on a given night. Part of the problem is probably Peyton's struggles all year. I'm sure that has surprised Sherri and seems unsolvable. Maybe she will suddenly get it fixed. We better hope so.

I guess a third possibility is simpler. No pg effectiveness. When TT or Lanesia are in the game together we have only 3 players left who can possibly score. Opponents don't even have to defend those 2 much. With Gabbi in, we at least have a shooter who can score - but she has thrown the ball away a lot this year. I wonder why.
 
Sweetest OU Girl said:
It has been obvious from our first game that we were struggling to produce offense. That has not changed. I can't recall a year where we had so much trouble with that in the past.

I personally believe one of two things is the culprit.

1. We are not allowing a group of 6-7 players to play together as a starting 5 unit with a couple of reserves. That lets them get accustomed to each other and play as a team. Much of the time we look like a bunch of individuals dribbling around.

2. We do not have players other than KK who can score and Sherri is showing that by all the substitutions just hoping someone will step up on a given night. Part of the problem is probably Peyton's struggles all year. I'm sure that has surprised Sherri and seems unsolvable. Maybe she will suddenly get it fixed. We better hope so.

I guess a third possibility is simpler. No pg effectiveness. When TT or Lanesia are in the game together we have only 3 players left who can possibly score. Opponents don't even have to defend those 2 much. With Gabbi in, we at least have a shooter who can score - but she has thrown the ball away a lot this year. I wonder why.
Click to expand...

Gabbi has fewer turnovers in conference play than any of the starters. Maddie has the most.
 
Gabbi's turnovers have not been logical or in the flow of anything.

You do take a lot of shots at Maddie.
 
SoonerNorm said:
Gabbi has fewer turnovers in conference play than any of the starters. Maddie has the most.
Click to expand...

Here are some stats since conference play began.

Assists:

Gabbi 6 in 5 games.
TT 18 in 5 games.
Maddie 11 in 5 games
Derica 11 in 5 games
Peyton 12 in 5 games
KK 4 in 5 games For heavens sakes she is our post and has only 2 fewer than our starting pg.

Gabbi has her 6 assists while averaging 24.2 minutes per game.
TT has her 18 assists while averaging 21.6 minutes per game.

Assist to Turnover ratio:

Gabbi 6/9 = 0.67
TT 18/13 = 1.38
Maddie 11/14 = 0.79
Derica 11/11 = 1.0
Peyton 12/11 = 1.09

I like Gabbi a lot. But she has had a major sophomore slump. Hopefully she will get it turned around soon. We know it is possible. It is still true that without Gabbi's points we would have struggled even more than we have.

I am sure Sherri did not anticipate that when the season began. I expect none of the rest of us did either .

Thinking about all those numbers, may show why we cannot score. Either a pg who cannot produce any assists - or one who can produce a marginal level , but cannot score effectively.
 
Sweetest OU Girl said:
Here are some stats since conference play began.

Assists:

Gabbi 6 in 5 games.
TT 18 in 5 games.
Maddie 11 in 5 games
Derica 11 in 5 games
Peyton 12 in 5 games
KK 4 in 5 games For heavens sakes she is our post and has only 2 fewer than our starting pg.

Gabbi has her 6 assists while averaging 24.2 minutes per game.
TT has her 18 assists while averaging 21.6 minutes per game.

Assist to Turnover ratio:

Gabbi 6/9 = 0.67
TT 18/13 = 1.38
Maddie 11/14 = 0.79
Derica 11/11 = 1.0
Peyton 12/11 = 1.09

I like Gabbi a lot. But she has had a major sophomore slump. Hopefully she will get it turned around soon. We know it is possible. It is still true that without Gabbi's points we would have struggled even more than we have.

I am sure Sherri did not anticipate that when the season began. I expect none of the rest of us did either .

Thinking about all those numbers, may show why we cannot score. Either a pg who cannot produce any assists - or one who can produce a marginal level , but cannot score effectively.
Click to expand...

I agree with you about assists. I thought we were talking about turnovers.
 
SoonerNorm said:
I agree with you about assists. I thought we were talking about turnovers.
Click to expand...

I wonder if TO problems early are what caused her to be hesitant about passing the ball at all - hence so few assists?

But you have to look at turnovers in context. Assist to Turnover ratio seems to be the accepted number to do that.
 
An assist requires these things:

---someone to execute a pass
---someone to hit (not miss) a basket
---an official scorer who will give credit for an assist.

T'Ona gets a lot of assists because a lot of her passes come in transition, resulting in layups. We seem to hit a lot of them---in transition.

Quite often, we miss shots that are set up by passes. Setting up Peyton, Gabbi, or Derica is not exactly a high probability of an assist recently.

There is also a scorer's interpretation. If you get an entry pass to the post, and the post takes a couple of steps, some scorekeepers give an assist. Others don't. Some don't want any steps. Some just want the pass to be something that gets them open where they can get to the rim. It is a matter of interpretation as to whether an entry pass in which Kay Kay takes a step is an assist or not.

Now, there is a fairly misleading statistic that results from the OSU game. We have been averaging about 16-17 assists per game. Prior to the OSU game, I think we led the Big Twelve in assists. But, with only four assists, we fell way down since we've only played four conference games previously. That one game has generated some distortions that will be ironed out over the next couple of months.
 
sybarite said:
You do take a lot of shots at Maddie.
Click to expand...

And you do the opposite.

As a matter of fact, you even discussed the possibility of Maddie being the best player in the conference, or possibly even the best player in the entire history of the conference. None of that is even remotely close to reality.

I never have understood what your fascination is with this one particular player. I am not saying that she is a terrible player, but she is certainly not elite, either.

At the rate that Maddie Manning is going this season, she is going to have a tough time making even honorable mention in the conference. She is averaging fewer than 10 points per game and she shoots 34% from the field. Those numbers simply aren't very good.

Most people know that Manning had some terrible injuries. So we don't really know just how good she could have been IF she had stayed healthy. Perhaps she could have indeed been one of the all time greats. But up to this point, she has not shown that shown that she could overcome being hurt and actually perform at a high level.

TC
 
Sherri has stated that she expects Maddie to be one of the best in the Big Twelve. Chad stated that he expects her to be the best in the Big Twelve. He did not say when. She has the talent and ability, if she will put it together.
 
True Colors said:
And you do the opposite.

As a matter of fact, you even discussed the possibility of Maddie being the best player in the conference, or possibly even the best player in the entire history of the conference. None of that is even remotely close to reality.

I never have understood what your fascination is with this one particular player. I am not saying that she is a terrible player, but she is certainly not elite, either.

At the rate that Maddie Manning is going this season, she is going to have a tough time making even honorable mention in the conference. She is averaging fewer than 10 points per game and she shoots 34% from the field. Those numbers simply aren't very good.

Most people know that Manning had some terrible injuries. So we don't really know just how good she could have been IF she had stayed healthy. Perhaps she could have indeed been one of the all time greats. But up to this point, she has not shown that shown that she could overcome being hurt and actually perform at a high level.

TC
Click to expand...

Exactly right. Maddie is a pretty good role player. That's not a bad thing, every team must have them. But, to suggest she is a star, all conference, etc, requires one to have a vivid imagination. Someone told me that Syb said Sherri sent Maddie into the Texas game and told her to "take over the game." Not to diminish what Maddie did because as I recall she made several free throws which certainly helped us win the game. But, IF that really happened, how come Sherri hasn't told Maddie the same thing in every game when we get behind? We could have used her to dominate several games since the Texas game.

I think everyone sees potential in Maddie. She is physically gifted and I don't see any lingering affects from her injuries, which is amazing in itself. But, she is hesitant to use her ability to put points on the board. She is tall enough to shoot over many defenders but she seldom does so. She is quick enough to get around her defender for midrange jump shots. Again, she seldom does so. She sometimes loses focus on defense causing Sherri to go to the bench. I'm not suggesting Treece has the talent that Maddie has but, she isn't afraid to take open shots and she does hustle on defense. Maddie shows signs of wanting to be a role player. I see no signs she even has a thought of wanting to be a star like a Buddy Hield. She just doesn't have a scorers mentality. She likes being a role player and that's okay.
 
A lot of good OU fans watch the Toby Rowland Show on which Sherri and Chad make these statements.
 
sybarite said:
A lot of good OU fans watch the Toby Rowland Show on which Sherri and Chad make these statements.
Click to expand...

I surmise that every thing Sherri and Chad as well as Pam and Jan do in regard to Maddie is done to elevate her self confidence so she will elevate her play. Most everyone here has seen her many individual talents that should allow her to be much better than she is.

Maddie has never been able to consistently perform at an elite level for whatever reason. I suspect Norm is right. When opportunity presents itself Maddie either does not see the opportunity or chooses not to take the opportunity. Unlike a shark when she sees blood she does not attack. She doesn't think like a Buddy Hield and she will never learn to take over a game like Buddy. The difference is all in gray matter. Not everyone is meant to be a star despite their talent.
 
Maddie is certainly talented enough to be the best player in this conference. I'm absolutely convinced that her problem is between her ears. She doesnt trust herself enough to play freely and aggressively. She still has a kernel of fear physically and is afraid to just go for it.
 
I believe a lot of things have not turned out like Sherri expected at the start of the year.

Among them:
1. She did not anticipate the prolonged slump for Peyton.
2. She expected - or at least hoped - for Maddie to score more than she has so far. I for one still hope and believe that can - and likely will - happen.
3. She did not expect Gabbi to go through such a rough sophomore slump.

However, I have not totally given up. We are ranked 19th. We only have 2 conference losses - both on the road. We have already had to play 3 road games but only 2 home games. Did you see the stat that home teams win 70% of the time? If we had played 3 home and 2 road games, we would likely be 4-1 and tied for first.

Cousins had been in a terrible slum for a few games, but he finally got out of it and was spectacular last night. What if that happens for Gabbi, Maddie, and Peyton over the next few games? Then we look like an entirely different team!

I'm going to be positive, go to tomorrow's game, and hope we put on a great show for all the kids who they expect to attend.
 
Sweetest OU Girl said:
I believe a lot of things have not turned out like Sherri expected at the start of the year.

Among them:
1. She did not anticipate the prolonged slump for Peyton.
2. She expected - or at least hoped - for Maddie to score more than she has so far. I for one still hope and believe that can - and likely will - happen.
3. She did not expect Gabbi to go through such a rough sophomore slump.

However, I have not totally given up. We are ranked 19th. We only have 2 conference losses - both on the road. We have already had to play 3 road games but only 2 home games. Did you see the stat that home teams win 70% of the time? If we had played 3 home and 2 road games, we would likely be 4-1 and tied for first.

Cousins had been in a terrible slum for a few games, but he finally got out of it and was spectacular last night. What if that happens for Gabbi, Maddie, and Peyton over the next few games? Then we look like an entirely different team!

I'm going to be positive, go to tomorrow's game, and hope we put on a great show for all the kids who they expect to attend.
Click to expand...

I think we will see better games from Peyton. But, I'm not sure why you think Maddie is in a slump. Her lack of scoring issues are not similar to those of Cousins or Peyton.
 
SoonerSpock said:
I surmise that every thing Sherri and Chad as well as Pam and Jan do in regard to Maddie is done to elevate her self confidence so she will elevate her play. Most everyone here has seen her many individual talents that should allow her to be much better than she is.

Maddie has never been able to consistently perform at an elite level for whatever reason. I suspect Norm is right. When opportunity presents itself Maddie either does not see the opportunity or chooses not to take the opportunity. Unlike a shark when she sees blood she does not attack. She doesn't think like a Buddy Hield and she will never learn to take over a game like Buddy. The difference is all in gray matter. Not everyone is meant to be a star despite their talent.
Click to expand...

I would suggest that they are telling the truth.

Maddie has not been consistent. I think there is more than one reason. Sometimes, there is a tendency to look only at scoring. Let me go back to the first game in which I can remember Sherri telling Maddie to take over (her words from the post-game show).

If I remember, Gioya was on the bench early, like after two minutes. May be wrong on this. But, I do remember that we had no flow. Nothing was happening on offense. When Maddie came in, she began to pass it around and get some movement and open shots for several. We put on a burst that allowed us to overcome a Texas momentum (?, I think it was Texas). Often, things go better when Maddie has the ball more. She looks to create or pass.

Unfortunately, recently, nobody is moving to get open, even if she does distribute. But, her stat line is often quite full. Right now, she isn't hitting anything except free throws. But, she is our second leading rebouder, leads in steals in conference play, is up there in assists (despite the fact that we aren't hitting the shots after distribution), and I think she is third on the team in blocks. That's kind of a lot of different things.

I think they see what she can be. There are just interruptions that have crippled that thus far.
 
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