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The fear is that enough vouchers would just essentially lower the cost to go to private schools for the kids already attending them.

Why is that a fear?

It looks like it cost the state $9k per pupil. The cost per pupil at the catholic school my kids went for a while was around $7k per pupil.

Shouldn't we want more kids to go the private route to take the load off the state's budget?

Classrooms are overloaded. There are not enough teachers. A third of the state's budget is for education. Seems like getting more kids out of the system would be a good thing financially for the state
 
Why is that a fear?

It looks like it cost the state $9k per pupil. The cost per pupil at the catholic school my kids went for a while was around $7k per pupil.

Shouldn't we want more kids to go the private route to take the load off the state's budget?

Classrooms are overloaded. There are not enough teachers. A third of the state's budget is for education. Seems like getting more kids out of the system would be a good thing financially for the state

It’s not putting more kids in private schools, it’s lowering the cost for kids that are already there. The money being used to lower that cost would’ve went to the public schools.

So now that you’ve taken more money away from public schools there will be fewer teachers, fewer resources, fewer support staff and all with the same amount of students.
 
It’s not putting more kids in private schools, it’s lowering the cost for kids that are already there. The money being used to lower that cost would’ve went to the public schools.

So now that you’ve taken more money away from public schools there will be fewer teachers, fewer resources, fewer support staff and all with the same amount of students.

Why do you think it won't entice more kids to go private? That seems silly.

If the state is smart, they should want less kids in the system. It would really solve their problems. The amount they would lose per kid would be gained by not having to incur those costs
 
in other current events....YoutubeTV just upped their price by 30% from $50/month to $65/month. I don't see this going very well for them.
 
Why do you think it won't entice more kids to go private? That seems silly.

If the state is smart, they should want less kids in the system. It would really solve their problems. The amount they would lose per kid would be gained by not having to incur those costs

Did you not read my post? It’s not putting more kids into private schools, it’s lowering to cost for the kids already attending them.

Just because you lower tuition from 7k to 5k doesn’t mean more kids can attend. Private schools don’t have to expand to allow more kids in, they rarely accept IEP (learning impaired or disability) kids. You are just benifiting the kids who already have the means.
 
Did you not read my post? It’s not putting more kids into private schools, it’s lowering to cost for the kids already attending them.

Just because you lower tuition from 7k to 5k doesn’t mean more kids can attend. Private schools don’t have to expand to allow more kids in, they rarely accept IEP (learning impaired or disability) kids. You are just benifiting the kids who already have the means.

I read it. I think it is naive to think it will only benefit those already there. It will for sure help those already going. But it will no doubt make it affordable for others that aren't enrolled right now
 
I read it. I think it is naive to think it will only benefit those already there. It will for sure help those already going. But it will no doubt make it affordable for others that aren't enrolled right now

They have a cap & standards on who they’ll take. They aren’t going to take anyone who wants to go there, they are just lowering the cost of who’s already there.
 
They have a cap & standards on who they’ll take. They aren’t going to take anyone who wants to go there, they are just lowering the cost of who’s already there.

This simply isn’t true. It may be for some private schools but not all of them. For sure not catholic schools
 
It seems the biggest aspect of this that someone else pointed out is that it protects religious schools. If a state is funding any private schools, it can’t exclude religious schools
 
It seems the biggest aspect of this that someone else pointed out is that it protects religious schools. If a state is funding any private schools, it can’t exclude religious schools

That’s fine, I’m not trying to exclude religious from private. My big issue is private getting the credits in general. Stitt & Devos are bad for public education.
 
This simply isn’t true. It may be for some private schools but not all of them. For sure not catholic schools

It is definitely true, they don’t have to hire SPED teachers so they can’t accept SPED kids.
 
Why are you moving the goal posts and now focusing on a very very small portion of kids?

I’m not. They won’t add more kids, the credits are just to decrease the tuition of kids already there. Private schools aren’t the solution to education.
 
A vehicle in Provo, Utah was trying to pass through a group of protestors and was shot at twice. The 1st shot fired was from the passenger side and struck one of the occupants. If the bullet missed it would likely have exited the driver's side window and placed those protestors in harms way. Beautiful people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ1KYQ6B1Fo
 
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I’m not. They won’t add more kids, the credits are just to decrease the tuition of kids already there. Private schools aren’t the solution to education.

You are all over the place man

I can guarantee you that if parents could get a voucher, that some of them would decide to move their kids to a private school. It isn't just for those already going. It will still be too expensive for most.

Private schools aren't THE solution but they are part of it.

What are the issues with public education? My opinion is that they are underfunded, too much waste, too large of class sizes,good teachers move out of state, lack of teachers, etc.

What good reason would there be for the state to not supporting a voucher system? Say that voucher is $1,000 per year per kid. If that makes it economically feasible for a parent to take their kid out of the public system, it is a win win. The state is netting about $8k for every student that would leave. So you would just need to make sure that enough kids left to cover the voucher for those that are already in private school. Or you only give the vouchers to those currently in public schools that want to leave. Or you do a lottery for those that are already in private schools. I don't know. But studies and surveys can be conducted to look at the right way to do it and we can look at the results of the other states. But in theory, it works. We both know things don't always turn out how we think they will though.

The other positive is it helps some kids that want to break that cycle we were talking about of being poor and having to overcome more obstacles. Maybe if some of these kids get out of the low income school and into a private school, they can overcome them
 
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A vehicle in Provo, Utah was trying to pass through a group of protestors and was shot at twice. The 1st shot fired was from the passenger side and struck one of the occupants. If the bullet missed it would likely have exited the driver's side window and placed those protestors in harms way. Beautiful people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ1KYQ6B1Fo

wow
 
Who's responsibility is that? Why can some in those conditions fix the problem themselves, while other's can't? Aren't there a BUNCH of social programs and things out there with the very intent of helping these people fix their situation?

I got bad mouthed on here a few weeks ago for suggesting some of these folks have no desire to put out much of any effort to better themselves and their lives. You say the family life at home is a symptom, I say it's the root cause.

Social programs help, but in this country the private industry has to save it. We don't tax nearly enough on employers to really stop this problem. We completely lack the public infrastructure to do it.

Again.... 42% of the country makes less than $15 an hour. Do you know how **** that is in today's money? It's a travesty. The poverty rate hasn't been adjusted since the 1960's.... Way more people are poor than you think. The reason I say that is because you asked "who's responsibility is that?" to fix the economic situation... There are really only two options... Employers or the government. Either employers pay more, or the government needs to tax them heavily and put in proper public infrastructure.

But its tricky... how do you make them pay more? These are the same people who go hire slaves in China, Vietnam, Indonesia, Mexico, etc to boost profits. It's evil man, it really is. These are not people to be admired. It's not a clever business move for Apple to go over there. It's not a clever business move for every roofer, landscaper, painter, etc to be a desperate foreign worker. It's not a clever business move for tech giants to move to India and tell slaves to change their names to "Steve", and "Bob", etc when they answer the phone to take a support call. It's evil.

I mean, Bernie Sanders literally shamed Amazon, Disney, and Target into doing it. But all they did was make the minimum $15 an hour. They are still poor, they are just less poor. Bernie literally had to show up at Disney World and at an Amazon sweat shop and do TV appearances and shame them into it. They didn't do it out of the goodness in their hearts.

Public opinion also has to be changed on what a human being is worth. You hear arguments that retail jobs are for teenagers, they are just temporary, they are designed to be a stepping down. That just isn't true. You also hear that someone working at Walmart, Target, CVS, etc doesn't deserve a decent wage. Look around town, what do you see? Restaurants, shops, Lowes, Home Depot, Walmart, CVS, Best Buy, Banks, Walgreens, apartment complexes, hospitals, landscaping companies, painters, roofers, etc. A large portion of those people are poor, with few exceptions for medical professionals and managers. But most of that hospital is poor. Clerks, billing people, transporters, janitors, customer service people, housekeepers, food service people, delivery people, low-level medical people (nurse techs, phlebotomist, etc make like $12 an hour), groundskeepers, etc. I saw that the Whirpool manufacturing plant in Oklahoma pays an average of $17 an hour. I could go on and on.

Are there great jobs out there? Yes. But are there a ton of jobs out there to technically make you poor? Absolutely.

Keep in mind, I am not poor.... I am in the top 5% of wage earners in Oklahoma, and have a graduate degree education. In terms of self-study, I have read dozens of books on this topic, and spent countless hours researching issues to form an opinion. So I am not a poor person fighting for govt handouts or anything like that. I have been poor in my life (for a period as a kid), but for most of my life I have not been poor.

Sorry, I am totally ranting at this point. :)
 
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You are all over the place man

I can guarantee you that if parents could get a voucher, that some of them would decide to move their kids to a private school. It isn't just for those already going. It will still be too expensive for most.

Private schools aren't THE solution but they are part of it.

What are the issues with public education? My opinion is that they are underfunded, too much waste, too large of class sizes,good teachers move out of state, lack of teachers, etc.

What good reason would there be for the state to not supporting a voucher system? Say that voucher is $1,000 per year per kid. If that makes it economically feasible for a parent to take their kid out of the public system, it is a win win. The state is netting about $8k for every student that would leave. So you would just need to make sure that enough kids left to cover the voucher for those that are already in private school. Or you only give the vouchers to those currently in public schools that want to leave. Or you do a lottery for those that are already in private schools. I don't know. But studies and surveys can be conducted to look at the right way to do it and we can look at the results of the other states. But in theory, it works. We both know things don't always turn out how we think they will though.

The other positive is it helps some kids that want to break that cycle we were talking about of being poor and having to overcome more obstacles. Maybe if some of these kids get out of the low income school and into a private school, they can overcome them

How was I all over the place? That was me reiterating for the 3rd time that the vouchers are going to be primarily used for students already going there.
 
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