Depth

[BigTime]

Losing Booker hurt and I will concede that last year's depth was not what I had hoped for early on but I do think this squad will have some really solid depth.

PG: Woodard/Cousins/Walker
Wings: Buddy/Cousins/Odomes/James/Walker/Buford
Posts: Spangler/Lattin/AK/Buford/Jamuni

Should go a legit 9 deep without James and Jamuni and my bet is that at least one of them can give us something next year so that would be 10 deep without having to count the Orlando Allens, Barry Honores or Casey Arents of the world (great teammates just not guys you want in your top 10 of a team trying to get to the FF).

Assuming either James or Jamuni is able to contribute next year, is 10 enough to get us to the FF assuming no major injuries or other causes for missing significant time?

Booker and Hornbeak both would be nice right now....

 

[Zimwillett]

Losing Booker hurt and I will concede that last year's depth was not what I had hoped for early on but I do think this squad will have some really solid depth.

PG: Woodard/Cousins/Walker
Wings: Buddy/Cousins/Odomes/James/Walker/Buford
Posts: Spangler/Lattin/AK/Buford/Jamuni

Should go a legit 9 deep without James and Jamuni and my bet is that at least one of them can give us something next year so that would be 10 deep without having to count the Orlando Allens, Barry Honores or Casey Arents of the world (great teammates just not guys you want in your top 10 of a team trying to get to the FF).

Assuming either James or Jamuni is able to contribute next year, is 10 enough to get us to the FF assuming no major injuries or other causes for missing significant time?

Booker and Hornbeak both would be nice right now....

It is definitely nice to have the depth, but the reality is the rotation of guys playing truly meaningful minutes will be, at most, 8. This is especially true as we get deeper into conference/tournament play. McNeace, for example, won't be getting minutes in big games unless there is some kind of emergency. Similarly, one of James, Walker, or Odomes will be odd man out. After Buddy, Woodard, and Cousins, there just won't be a lot of minutes off the bench for guard/wing players.

Obviously, I'd rather have the depth than not, but I don't expect anything like Kentucky's blue/white units.

 

[skyvue]

McNeace, for example, won't be getting minutes in big games unless there is some kind of emergency.

I'm not saying you're wrong (or right), but how do you know this?

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Booker and Hornbeak both would be nice right now....

meh.

Not big losses. over recruited. its a good thing

 

[SoonerinNC]

Kruger went 9 deep with Fitz, Hornbeak, Cousins and Grooms in 12-13. All with 10 or more minutes. Went 9 deep with Hornbeak, Booker, Neal and Bennett all over 9 minutes in 13-14.

I think we have at least that much talent in 15-16.

I expect him to go 10 deep particularly with 5 new players, all of whom he will want to develop. If they don't develop then I expect him to back off to 9.

 

[Zimwillett]

I'm not saying you're wrong (or right), but how do you know this?

Obviously, I don't know this for certain, but I think it's a pretty reasonable assumption. First, after Spangler, Lattin, Manyang, and probably Buford, there won't be a lot of post minutes to go around.

Second, Lon has consistently shown he's willing to stick with a very short rotation in the post and only play guys he really trusts. Last season is a great example. DJ Bennett, a senior with previous experience, had 11 games where he logged 2 minutes or less (including 6 DNPs) in conference/tournament play. Lon was perfectly happy to stick with a mostly 3 man rotation.

Finally, while Jamuni has size and athleticism you can't teach, there's a reason he redshirted. I think he's still developing, and players like that just aren't going to log a bunch of meaningful minutes in big games unless there's foul or injury trouble.

None of this is meant to insult Jamuni. I think he could develop into a really good player, but I think he's still a year or two away.

 

[BigTime]

Obviously, I don't know this for certain, but I think it's a pretty reasonable assumption. First, after Spangler, Lattin, Manyang, and probably Buford, there won't be a lot of post minutes to go around.

Second, Lon has consistently shown he's willing to stick with a very short rotation in the post and only play guys he really trusts. Last season is a great example. DJ Bennett, a senior with previous experience, had 11 games where he logged 2 minutes or less (including 6 DNPs) in conference/tournament play. Lon was perfectly happy to stick with a mostly 3 man rotation.

Finally, while Jamuni has size and athleticism you can't teach, there's a reason he redshirted. I think he's still developing, and players like that just aren't going to log a bunch of meaningful minutes in big games unless there's foul or injury trouble.

None of this is meant to insult Jamuni. I think he could develop into a really good player, but I think he's still a year or two away.

Reasonable post.

 

[Zimwillett]

Kruger went 9 deep with Fitz, Hornbeak, Cousins and Grooms in 12-13. All with 10 or more minutes. Went 9 deep with Hornbeak, Booker, Neal and Bennett all over 9 minutes in 13-14.

I think we have at least that much talent in 15-16.

I expect him to go 10 deep particularly with 5 new players, all of whom he will want to develop. If they don't develop then I expect him to back off to 9.

I think the minute averages are somewhat deceptive. For example, DJ Bennett averaged almost 8 minutes per game last year, but as a soon as conference play came around, he only played double digit minutes in 3 games (OSU blowout in Norman and KU and KSU because of foul trouble). That's kind of my point. Lon will probably play a lot of these guys against Northwester State and the like, but when conference play rolls around, the rotation will shorten dramatically.

 

[BigTime]

meh.

Not big losses. over recruited. its a good thing

Just tough to expect first year players who are not Burger Boys to replace their experience. Would take Beak over Walker for PG/Wing spot minutes.

Always nice to have a shooter like Booker coming off the bench.

 

[skyvue]

Reasonable post.

It was, yes. I just hate seeing any player written off, even for a season, by fans -- especially a player we haven't even seen play yet. One can say there's a reason he was redshirted, but there's also a reason he was offered a scholarship. None of us (except, perhaps, for a tiny handful of fans who attend practice on a regular basis) knows what kind of progress he's made or how much progress he might make in the coming weeks and months.

 

[NickZepp]

Losing Booker hurt and I will concede that last year's depth was not what I had hoped for early on but I do think this squad will have some really solid depth.

PG: Woodard/Cousins/Walker
Wings: Buddy/Cousins/Odomes/James/Walker/Buford
Posts: Spangler/Lattin/AK/Buford/Jamuni

Should go a legit 9 deep without James and Jamuni and my bet is that at least one of them can give us something next year so that would be 10 deep without having to count the Orlando Allens, Barry Honores or Casey Arents of the world (great teammates just not guys you want in your top 10 of a team trying to get to the FF).

Assuming either James or Jamuni is able to contribute next year, is 10 enough to get us to the FF assuming no major injuries or other causes for missing significant time?

Booker and Hornbeak both would be nice right now....

Would like to have a decent backup PG like Hornbeak showed he could be. But I think we'll be allright without Booker in the end but I wouldn't mind him either. Really the only spot we are hurting at depth wise is PG.

 

[Zimwillett]

It was, yes. I just hate seeing any player written off, even for a season, by fans -- especially a player we haven't even seen play yet. One can say there's a reason he was redshirted, but there's also a reason he was offered a scholarship. None of us (except, perhaps, for a tiny handful of fans who attend practice on a regular basis) knows what kind of progress he's made or how much progress he might make in the coming weeks and months.

I'm definitely not one of those fans who writes a player off if he isn't an All American by the time he's a sophomore, and hope I didn't come across that way in this instance.

I think Jumani has always been somewhat of a "project". Perhaps he's become the next Anthony Davis during the course of his redshirt season. I certainly hope so, but my more grounded nature tells me not. But you are right. None of us know for sure.

 

[skyvue]

I'm definitely not one of those fans who writes a player off if he isn't an All American by the time he's a sophomore, and hope I didn't come across that way in this instance.

You didn't; it's a sore point with me, one I probably harp on too often.

 

[AdaSooner]

I used the words "quality depth" on another thread to describe how I feel about the players on our roster this year. And, for the record, I didn't feel the same way last year.

We already know that Hield, Cousins, Spangler, Woodard, Lattin and Buford will see plenty of playing time. Walker will get his share, too, because he proved to be a solid role player last season.

That leaves McNeace, Manyang, Odomes and James to fill what I believe will be a nine or ten man rotation when the trial run is over at about the halfway point of the season. I believe Manyang and Odomes will compete for starter-like minutes when they adjust to the speed and physicality of the D-1 game. I'm really high on McNeace and James as well. I just don't know what to expect from them right now? Of one thing I'm certain, they are going to be really good someday. The question is will this be the season?

As SoonerinNC pointed out earlier, LK will not hesitate to go with a nine to ten man rotation if he feels the players can get the job done. He gave everyone on the team a chance to prove their worth last season, before he went with 7 to 8 players he could trust. This season will be different. Even with Thomas, Booker and Bennett no longer around, I honestly believe this is a better team top to bottom than last year.

 

[Stikboy]

Not trying to bash Hornbeak or Booker. Hornbeak was a nice player. Booker had his moments. Of course we don't know what we have with the freshmen. But I have a hard time believing that Booker's volume shooting(and mostly missing) can't be replaced by two guys who are more athletic than both and we'll see about the 3 pt percentages. What was Hornbeak in his last year, 25%? What was Booker, low or mid 30s? I'd bet they can get that... Both can score in so many more ways and have more size too. Will it take them time to adjust? Of course it will. But I'm pretty excited about them. In one of those practice pics on the twitter page, they had a pic of James taking it to the rack high on Spangler and someone else. It will great if Christian is pretty much completely healed and good to go..

 

[WaymanFan]

I won't rag on Booker. He was practically to sole reason we beat Dayton and got to play in the Sweet 16. I could never forget a Sooner who was the primary reason for an NCAA Tournament victory.

I've been reading stuff like this for years - recruiting over players and fans basically saying "good riddance." I remember about 10 years ago when Lawrence MacKenzie left and most fans were saying things like: "No big deal. We have Michael Neal coming in." My response was "Wouldn't we be better if we have both?" Would we have been worse this past year if Hornbeak chose to stay? Doubt it...and doubt we'll be worse next season had Booker wanted to stay.

 

[Zimwillett]

I won't rag on Booker. He was practically to sole reason we beat Dayton and got to play in the Sweet 16. I could never forget a Sooner who was the primary reason for an NCAA Tournament victory.

I've been reading stuff like this for years - recruiting over players and fans basically saying "good riddance." I remember about 10 years ago when Lawrence MacKenzie left and most fans were saying things like: "No big deal. We have Michael Neal coming in." My response was "Wouldn't we be better if we have both?" Would we have been worse this past year if Hornbeak chose to stay? Doubt it...and doubt we'll be worse next season had Booker wanted to stay.

Really good post. Will OU's 2015-16 season go in the tank because Booker and Hornbeak transferred? Obviously not. However, it would would be an extreme luxury to have 3-4 year players with lots of experience as the first couple of guards off the bench. Unfortunately, it seems fewer and fewer college basketball players are willing to accept those kinds of roles.

I'm extremely excited to see what both Odomes and James can do, but as is almost always the case with true freshmen, there are going to be some growing pains.

 

[Stikboy]

I'm not ragging on Booker or Hornbeak. I simply pointed out what they are and aren't, and I'm not wringing my hands that they're gone. I'm excited about the new guys. I'm not trying to hurt any Booker fans' feelings.

 

[skyvue]

I'm not ragging on Booker or Hornbeak. I simply pointed out what they are and aren't, and I'm not wringing my hands that they're gone. I'm excited about the new guys. I'm not trying to hurt any Booker fans' feelings.

I don't think anyone isn't excited about the new guys, but it's not either/or. Expecting a pair of freshman to step right up and immediately replace two experienced upper classmen is asking a lot, to say the least.

I'm perfectly willing to believe that Odomes and James have higher ceilings than Booker and Hornbeak, but will they be better as true freshmen than Hornbeak and Booker would have been as a senior and a junior, respectively? That's doubtful. If they are, I'll be thrilled, but also very surprised.

 

[SoonerinNC]

If Kruger sees a big upside in the newcomers he is going to give them plenty of minutes early. With his pressure defense and uptempo offense he needs to have depth. If they show they can be trusted I think Kruger will go 10 deep. There was a definite slowdown with both Spangler and Cousins late last season. Both play really hard but looked worn down at the end. The need more rest and Cousins is likely to be the backup point which will open up some 2 guard minutes.