From final four to last

[pnkranger]

We were at our best in the second half last night when we ran the offense through our forwards. Pass into Doolittle, he either draws the foul, takes a good shot, or finds an open teammate. Guards are trying to do too much when our front court is probably our strength right now.

 

[okhoops918]

I don't think that is fair at all.

For all his struggles, he still is averaging 12 ppg and shooting 50% from three....and is still a sophemore.

There is a lot of talent on this team. just need experience. Mcgusty, doolittle, shepard, james are all talented guys

None of those guys would start on more than 2 Big 12 teams.

so my point stands. Like I said, potential not talent.

so far in big 12 play James is averaging 7ppg and 1.5 rpg and 2.5 turnovers per game in 34 minutes of work.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

None of those guys would start on more than 2 Big 12 teams.

so my point stands. Like I said, potential not talent.

so far in big 12 play James is averaging 7ppg and 1.5 rpg and 2.5 turnovers per game in 34 minutes of work.

i don't think we have the same definition of potential and talent

 

[cjhsooner]

Fire Kruger? Too soon? Lol!

 

[AdaSooner]

I don't think that is fair at all.

For all his struggles, he still is averaging 12 ppg and shooting 50% from three....and is still a sophemore.

There is a lot of talent on this team. just need experience. Mcgusty, doolittle, shepard, james are all talented guys

Bingo!

No one that I can recall was criticizing CJ when he was averaging 50+ percent from three point range through the first 10 games. His slump started in the Memphis game when Jordan was out with an injury and he was being counted on to score more.

I didn't come up with that idea on my own. I borrowed it from a post Boomer!Sooner! made below on the box score thread:

I am curious what everyone was expecting of James for his sophomore year? He couldn't hit a shot last night, but his shots look good and in rhythm. They just aren't falling, but they will. Honestly James is playing exactly how I thought he would with Woodard on the floor. He isn't ready to take 13-17 shots a game. When he hasn't been forced to do so and is shooting 7-10 shots a game he has played really good as a sophomore. Unfortunately, with woodard not playing he has to take that many shots. Who else is going to?

I think Boomer!Sooner! is right in that CJ may be feeling the pressure of stepping up his game to fill the void left by our only senior, Jordan Woodard. He forced a lot of shots in the Memphis game, and he's still doing it to some extent. I'm sure our coaches told him to do what shooters do when they're in a slump: keep shooting and the shots will start to fall.

Keep in mind that we're dealing with a second year player who wasn't much of a factor until the end of the season last year. While he may be trying to "be like Buddy" he is far from the seasoned veteran Buddy was his last two years. It's easy to forget that Buddy Love played a lot as a freshman. Yet, he wasn't even close to the shooter/scorer he would become as an upperclassmen. He averaged 8 points per game on 39% shooting from the field (24% from three) his freshman season. As a comparison, Buddy averaged 25 minutes per game his first year. CJ averaged 9 minutes per game. That's a huge difference in the experience factor that plays a role in the development and maturity of every player trying to make the transition from high school to the college game.

If you, like me, have been disappointed with CJ's shooting of late, maybe we were expecting too much from a sophomore who didn't come into the season with much experience, and absolutely none as a starter who would be counted on to do more perhaps than he was capable of delivering.

Still, for those who continue to bring it up, you don't put a 50 percent plus shooter from three on the bench because he has been in a slump lately. If someone else on this team had already proven themselves to be capable of replacing him, that might be different. But, darned if I can think of anyone else who has proven that to be true.

 

[allday92]

Kruger needs to play Freeman more, and especially late in games when the offense is stagnating.. Outside of Woodard, I think he's our best offensive player. And he's not horrible on defense either, he has improved on that end.

 

[chuckb]

Bingo!

No one that I can recall was criticizing CJ when he was averaging 50+ percent from three point range through the first 10 games. His slump started in the Memphis game when Jordan was out with an injury and he was being counted on to score more.

I didn't come up with that idea on my own. I borrowed it from a post Boomer!Sooner! made below on the box score thread:



I think Boomer!Sooner! is right in that CJ may be feeling the pressure of stepping up his game to fill the void left by our only senior, Jordan Woodard. He forced a lot of shots in the Memphis game, and he's still doing it to some extent. I'm sure our coaches told him to do what shooters do when they're in a slump: keep shooting and the shots will start to fall.

Keep in mind that we're dealing with a second year player who wasn't much of a factor until the end of the season last year. While he may be trying to "be like Buddy" he is far from the seasoned veteran Buddy was his last two years. It's easy to forget that Buddy Love played a lot as a freshman. Yet, he wasn't even close to the shooter/scorer he would become as an upperclassmen. He averaged 8 points per game on 39% shooting from the field (24% from three) his freshman season. As a comparison, Buddy averaged 25 minutes per game his first year. CJ averaged 9 minutes per game. That's a huge difference in the experience factor that plays a role in the development and maturity of every player trying to make the transition from high school to the college game.

If you, like me, have been disappointed with CJ's shooting of late, maybe we were expecting too much from a sophomore who didn't come into the season with much experience, and absolutely none as a starter who would be counted on to do more perhaps than he was capable of delivering.

Still, for those who continue to bring it up, you don't put a 50 percent plus shooter from three on the bench because he has been in a slump lately. If someone else on this team had already proven themselves to be capable of replacing him, that might be different. But, darned if I can think of anyone else who has proven that to be true.

This. Times a million. James played less than 10 minutes per game last year. Now he's asked to play 30 and be the team's leading scorer. Many here claimed he would average 18 ppg and be all Big 12. His progress has been solid. Expecting him to be Buddy this year simply wasn't realistic.

 

[MsProudSooner]

This. Times a million. James played less than 10 minutes per game last year. Now he's asked to play 30 and be the team's leading scorer. Many here claimed he would average 18 ppg and be all Big 12. His progress has been solid. Expecting him to be Buddy this year simply wasn't realistic.

Especially since Buddy didn't begin to come into his own until his Junior year.

 

[Big Old Booger]

McGusty played his best game, by far, last night. He was very good.

Your opinion of James is clownish. His shooting is in a big-time slump but it hasn't at all affected his effort. That you think it has is ridiculous.

McGusty hasn't played much in the games I've watched. I don't live in Oklahoma so I don't get to watch all the games or any of the gimme's which are on the OU Fox sports station. So, I haven't seen him play very much but last night was the most he played. He missed a ton of easy buckets but so did everyone else. He's a freshman so he will get better. 4 of 11 is not very good though. 4 of 7 with his other stats would be very good, so saying he played "very good" is relative.

I like James, but my statement about him lacking aggressiveness was from the TCU game only. The other games I've watched he was more aggressive than Tuesday night. I will say, his actions after he makes a shot gets old. Reminds me of how the subs played in jr high or elementary. They would make a shot and then look into the stands to find mom and dad. Just play, you know.

 

[oudna]

4 of 11 is not very good though. 4 of 7 with his other stats would be very good, so saying he played "very good" is relative.

There is more to "good" than a shot or two falling, or not.

 

[sunny]

Dang. I didn't expect all of this. I just asked a question whether a team had gone from the final four to last in their conference the next year?

 

[Big Old Booger]

There is more to "good" than a shot or two falling, or not.

Agreed, he had 4 steals which is really good. However, the game is decided by points and not rebounds or steals. Those things lead to points for sure, but 4 of 11 is not good. Some of those were gimme's too. He's not the only one that missed the gimme's as they all were doing that. Poor shooting all around.

He seemed out of control on offense from what I saw. He's young and will get better, I agree with that. I wish he had played more up to this point though.

 

[chuckb]

McGusty hasn't played much in the games I've watched. I don't live in Oklahoma so I don't get to watch all the games or any of the gimme's which are on the OU Fox sports station. So, I haven't seen him play very much but last night was the most he played. He missed a ton of easy buckets but so did everyone else. He's a freshman so he will get better. 4 of 11 is not very good though. 4 of 7 with his other stats would be very good, so saying he played "very good" is relative.

I like James, but my statement about him lacking aggressiveness was from the TCU game only. The other games I've watched he was more aggressive than Tuesday night. I will say, his actions after he makes a shot gets old. Reminds me of how the subs played in jr high or elementary. They would make a shot and then look into the stands to find mom and dad. Just play, you know.

Which game was "too much attitude, not enough hustle" from?

It's legitimate to question a player's aggresiveness. I don't agree that he's not been aggressive but that's a legitimate subject for debate. There is, in my opinion, absolutely no basis for saying he's got "too much attitude" as if he thinks he's better than everyone else. And, saying he's not aggressive enough is not the same as saying he doesn't hustle.

Everyone Kruger's putting on the court is playing their butts off. They're not making enough shots and they're making youthful mistakes, but no reasonable person can conclude they're not giving 100%.

 

[AdaSooner]

Dang. I didn't expect all of this. I just asked a question whether a team had gone from the final four to last in their conference the next year?

You may find your answer in knowing how tough it is to get to the final four in the first place. To me, that is far more important than who finished last in the conference race.

It should be no surprise that Kansas stands alone in Big 12/Big 8 with an unbelievable 14 final four appearances since the 1930s. No one else is even close.

OSU.........6
OU...........5 (three in what I'll call the modern era: 1988, 2002 and 2016)
KSU.........4
Texas.......3
Baylor......2
WVU........2
ISU..........1
TCU.........0
TTU.........0
***The two former Big 8/Big 12 schools (Mizzou and Nebraska) also have a big fat zero.

My point is simply that every school in the country not named KU, Duke, UNC, UCLA, Ohio State, Louisville and Indiana can be proud of their accomplishment when they make it to the final four. I still can't answer your question about finishing last in conference the following season. I just know it's not easy to reach the final four more than once. Some schools never get there at all.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Which game was "too much attitude, not enough hustle" from?

It's legitimate to question a player's aggresiveness. I don't agree that he's not been aggressive but that's a legitimate subject for debate. There is, in my opinion, absolutely no basis for saying he's got "too much attitude" as if he thinks he's better than everyone else. And, saying he's not aggressive enough is not the same as saying he doesn't hustle.

Everyone Kruger's putting on the court is playing their butts off. They're not making enough shots and they're making youthful mistakes, but no reasonable person can conclude they're not giving 100%.

Not one particular game where he displayed attitude but every time he makes a shot he stops and showboats a little. It's great when you are playing well, but it gets old when he's not.

On Tuesday night, he seemed to be "hanging his head" a little. That's what led to the comment.

 

[tooney]

Just for those that would like to know.....

Colorado.....two final fours, 1942, 1955:lon

 

[Stikboy]

You may find your answer in knowing how tough it is to get to the final four in the first place. To me, that is far more important than who finished last in the conference race.

It should be no surprise that Kansas stands alone in Big 12/Big 8 with an unbelievable 14 final four appearances since the 1930s. No one else is even close.

OSU.........6
OU...........5 (three in what I'll call the modern era: 1988, 2002 and 2016)
KSU.........4
Texas.......3
Baylor......2
WVU........2
ISU..........1
TCU.........0
TTU.........0
***The two former Big 8/Big 12 schools (Mizzou and Nebraska) also have a big fat zero.

My point is simply that every school in the country not named KU, Duke, UNC, UCLA, Ohio State, Louisville and Indiana can be proud of their accomplishment when they make it to the final four. I still can't answer your question about finishing last in conference the following season. I just know it's not easy to reach the final four more than once. Some schools never get there at all.

I'm hijacking, but this is precisely why I shake my head when people try to say that we don't have very good basketball tradition. Yes, OU is known for their football, but the basketball is underrated. And this is why we should be able to recruit well above average too.

 

[AdaSooner]

Just for those that would like to know.....

Colorado.....two final fours, 1942, 1955:lon

Thanks, Rooney! Forgot about CU.

Forgot about ATM too. The Aggies had one less final four than Texas Western.

 

[AdaSooner]

I'm hijacking, but this is precisely why I shake my head when people try to say that we don't have very good basketball tradition. Yes, OU is known for their football, but the basketball is underrated. And this is why we should be able to recruit well above average too.

Anytime, Stikboy. The point you made is one of the reasons I decided to post the final four results in the last seventy five years or so. Very few schools can match OU's rich tradition in basketball. Not bad for a "football school."

 

[sunny]

Boy, I may have started this tread way too early!!!! Way to go guys!!!