FT discrepancy and 3 calls I don't understand

[campbest]

Was this play in the second half? I would have to see the play again really break-it down, but from my recollection, the key is Cousins was the last to possess the ball (he saved it and threw it back in-bounds...even though it was very brief, this establishes frontcourt possession). It hit an Iowa State player, but Buddy still has to get both feet out of the backcourt and one foot in the frontcourt before touching the ball, he has backcourt status until that happens. A similar situation is if a player is in the front-court, passes to a teammate in the backcourt who jumps, catches it in the air and lands in the frontcourt.

If it was the first half, just reverse the scenario. Unless it happened differently than that, think it was correct. Someone share a clip if they have it.

I thought the illegal screen on Lattin was crap, too marginal for that point in the game.

 

[campbest]

He doesn't have to establish himself in the backcourt with both feet. Only one foot is needed and I thought watching it live he got the one foot down before touching the ball.

This is the way I see it too, he needs one to establish backcourt, two for frontcourt.

 

[campbest]

Even if the backcourt violation was the correct call (questionable), ISU should NOT have had a fresh shot clock.

Cousins saved the ball and threw it back in-bounds, which resets the shot clock for OU, the violation (if correct) would then rest it for Iowa State.

 

[WTSooner]

The backcourt call was correct.

 

[DenverSooner]

Even if the backcourt violation was the correct call (questionable), ISU should NOT have had a fresh shot clock.

good point and the call was not correct. You cannot have an over and back before you have possession. It doesn't even make sense to suggest other wise. When you don't have possession it is like a tip or deflection. When the defensive team deflects the ball you may go into the back court and get it.

 

[DenverSooner]

Cousins saved the ball and threw it back in-bounds, which resets the shot clock for OU, the violation (if correct) would then rest it for Iowa State.

Tipping the ball is not possession. The shot clock does not reset until you have possession.

 

[perryj74]

It sure would help if someone would post a video of the sequence in question

 

[DenverSooner]

The backcourt call was correct.

no it wasn't. It is rule 9 Section 12.

http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/BR17.pdf

This is the violation directly from the rules:

Art. 4. A player shall not be the first to touch the ball in his backcourt (with any part of his body, voluntarily or involuntarily) when the ball came from the frontcourt while that player’s team was in team control and that player or his teammate was the last to touch the ball before it went into the backcourt�

OU did not have possession so the "while that player's team was in team control" was not violated. The ball was not in the frontcourt so again no violation.

The call was a mistake.

 

[DenverSooner]

It sure would help if someone would post a video of the sequence in question

I don't have a video link but I can tell you exactly what happened. ISU had the ball, somehow the ball came lose (I believe an OU blocked shot or deflection). It was headed out of bonds near the OU bench (closest to the scorers table). Cousins dove and tipped the ball in play. The ball never crossed the center line. Heild came from the front court and was the first to touch the ball. It was very close as to whether he reestablished but you actually don't have to reestablish. You just can't be touching the ground in the front court when you make contact. This of course assumes your team has possession and the ball crossed into the front court.

 

[steverocks35]

Who touched it when doesn't actually matter since the ball was never in the frontcourt.

 

[DenverSooner]

Who touched it when doesn't actually matter since the ball was never in the frontcourt.

correct and it doesn't matter because OU never had possession or control of the ball. It was a mistake.

 

[Max Power]

ISU shot 10 more FTs than OU. Hmmm, Hilton Magic I guess

1. How was that an over-and-back on OU late in first half when Cousins threw ball of Morris' leg? Ball was never across half court. Unless I don't understand the all three points across the line rule

2. Illegal screen on Lattin was a joke

3. McKay grabbed Buddy's arm on last drive to basket. No call

Basketball officiating is hard. But consistency was lacking tonight. Not the cause of the loss, but frustrating down the stretch.

When you take 32 three's, its hard to draw shooting fouls

 

[Zimwillett]

I don't have a video link but I can tell you exactly what happened. ISU had the ball, somehow the ball came lose (I believe an OU blocked shot or deflection). It was headed out of bonds near the OU bench (closest to the scorers table). Cousins dove and tipped the ball in play. The ball never crossed the center line. Heild came from the front court and was the first to touch the ball. It was very close as to whether he reestablished but you actually don't have to reestablish. You just can't be touching the ground in the front court when you make contact. This of course assumes your team has possession and the ball crossed into the front court.

I thought the entire scenario could have been prevented if Lattin had gone after the ball. I have no idea why he was just standing there as the ball was headed toward the sideline, but if he hustles, I think he would have had a very good chance to track it down and the whole mess would have been avoided.

 

[WTSooner]

Who touched it when doesn't actually matter since the ball was never in the frontcourt.

Not true. Buddy was in the backcourt and never re-established himself. So when he first touched the ball, he was considered to be in the backcourt, which is fine. But when he came to rest, he was in the front court, which is why the call was correct, ASSUMING he did actually touch the ball before he touched the ground. I didn't watch a replay to see if that was in fact true, but it appeared to be true to me.

They got this one right.

 

[steverocks35]

Not true. Buddy was in the backcourt and never re-established himself. So when he first touched the ball, he was considered to be in the backcourt, which is fine. But when he came to rest, he was in the front court, which is why the call was correct, ASSUMING he did actually touch the ball before he touched the ground. I didn't watch a replay to see if that was in fact true, but it appeared to be true to me.

They got this one right.

Nope, Hield came to rest in the backcourt, watch it again.

 

[steverocks35]

and it doesn't matter where he came to rest anyway because the BALL was never in the frountcourt.

 

[ousooners1baby]

Here is the things that i did not like. Niang, even with his awesomeness, shuffles his feet almost every time. No call. He and Perry Ellis do the same thing and it should be called. They were waiting on Lattin on that screen and it was a terrible miss. The no call on Hields last drive didnt bother me that much as he faded away on the drive. oh and the backcourt was a miss. Three point rule.

 

[WTSooner]

and it doesn't matter where he came to rest anyway because the BALL was never in the frountcourt.

That doesn't matter. Never has. It's where the PLAYER has ESTABLISHED position.

 

[steverocks35]

That doesn't matter. Never has. It's where the PLAYER has ESTABLISHED position.

What are you talking about? If the ball is never in the frontcourt, there can't be a backcourt call, it's impossible.

 

[bearcreekfan]

That doesn't matter. Never has. It's where the PLAYER has ESTABLISHED position.

I just watched the play again in slow motion...

Hield was in the frontcourt with both feet down (and those were his third and fourth steps in the frontcourt) when he first made contact with the ball with his right hand while the ball was in the backcourt. He swatted down at the ball, but I'm guessing the ref had to determine that he had possession at that point in order to make the call. He then moved to the backcourt dribbled two more times and moved to the frontcourt.

To Denver's point earlier when he posted the rule, it did not appear that OU had possession in the frontcourt unless possession is solely based on the player's body and not the ball AND it was determined that Hield's swat gained him possession.

Right after the call Bilas said, "I'm not sure he had possession in the frontcourt."

For those that have access to the game, this play started with about 42 seconds left in the first half. Also, the ball was going out of bounds after a missed shot by Niang and a richochet off of Spangler's hands toward the sideline.