FT discrepancy and 3 calls I don't understand

I just watched the play again in slow motion...

Hield was in the frontcourt with both feet down when he first made contact with the ball with his right hand while the ball was in the backcourt. He swatted down at the ball, but I'm guessing the ref had to determine that he had possession at that point in order to make the call. He then moved to the backcourt dribbled two more times and moved to the frontcourt.

To Denver's point earlier when he posted the rule, it did not appear that OU had possession in the frontcourt unless possession is solely based on the player's body and not the ball AND it was determined that Hield's swat gained him possession.

Right after the call Bilas said, "I'm not sure he had possession in the frontcourt."

For those that have access to the game, this play started with about 42 seconds left in the first half. Also, the ball was going out of bounds after a missed shot by Niang and a richochet off of Spangler's hands toward the sideline.

Correct, standing in the frontcourt and touching the ball in the backcourt doesn't establish the ball in the frontcourt, therefore a backcourt can't be called. The rule is that both feet AND the ball have to cross into the frontcourt to establish the ball in the frontcourt. Until that happens then there can't be a backcourt call.
 
What are you talking about? If the ball is never in the frontcourt, there can't be a backcourt call, it's impossible.

A player in the frontcourt who catches a pass from the backcourt in the air and lands in the backcourt has committed violation. Only time that isn't true is on a throw-in.

Three point rule only applies to a ball handler.
 
Not true. Buddy was in the backcourt and never re-established himself. So when he first touched the ball, he was considered to be in the backcourt, which is fine. But when he came to rest, he was in the front court, which is why the call was correct, ASSUMING he did actually touch the ball before he touched the ground. I didn't watch a replay to see if that was in fact true, but it appeared to be true to me.

They got this one right.

You are mistaken. Read the rule. I linked it. The ball must enter the front court to have an over and back violation and your team must be in possession. Furthermore, if you are in the air, it is where you land that controls.

You cannot have an over and back violation on a lose ball. Everyone should know this because when you have the ball on offense and the defense deflects a pass you may go into the back court and retrieve the ball. The deflection created a lose ball.

It was a bad call. It wasn't a game changing call. OU could have won despite the call and I am sure there were many things that could have been called against OU and were not but this particular call against OU was a mistake.
 
A player in the frontcourt who catches a pass from the backcourt in the air and lands in the backcourt has committed violation. Only time that isn't true is on a throw-in.

Three point rule only applies to a ball handler.

Ok, that's correct, but that didn't happen in this case.
 
The key to this play is Cousins saving the ball (or whomever it was for OU) saving the ball. If it's possession, then it's backcourt, it not, no violation.
 
They ruled there was possession because the shot clock reset. Either that or the shot clock operator reset the clock because a backcourt violation requires possession and therefore the call necessitated a reset.
 
Section 12. Backcourt
Art. 1. A team’s frontcourt shall consist of that part of the playing court between its end line and the nearer edge of the division line, including its basket and the inbounds part of its backboard�
Art. 2. A team’s backcourt consists of the rest of the playing court, including its opponent’s basket and inbounds part of the backboard and the division line, excluding the mathematical edge nearest the team’s basket�
Art. 3. A live ball is in the frontcourt or backcourt of the team in control as follows:
a� A ball that is in contact with a player or with the playing court shall be in the backcourt when either the ball or the player (either player when the ball is touching more than one) is touching the backcourt� It shall be in the frontcourt when neither the ball nor the player is touching the backcourt�
b� A ball that is not in contact with a player or the playing court retains the same status as when it was last in contact with a player or the playing court�
c� During a dribble from backcourt to frontcourt, the ball shall be in the frontcourt when both feet of the dribbler and the ball touch the playing court entirely in the frontcourt�
Art. 4. A player shall not be the first to touch the ball in his backcourt (with any part of his body, voluntarily or involuntarily) when the ball came from the frontcourt while that player’s team was in team control and that player or his teammate was the last to touch the ball before it went into the backcourt�
Art. 5. A pass in the frontcourt that is deflected by a defensive player so that the ball goes into the Backcourt may be recovered by either team�
Art. 6. Regardless of where the throw-in spot is located, the throw-in team may cause the ball to go into the backcourt before player control has been established by the throw-in team on the playing court�
Art. 7. After the throw-in ends, an inbounds player in the frontcourt, who is not in control of the ball, may cause the ball to go into the backcourt�
Art. 8. A player who is the first to secure control of the ball in the frontcourt after a jump ball or a throw-in while both feet are off the playing court shall not be permitted to cause the ball to go into the backcourt, except as permitted in Rule 9-12�10�

Art. 9. A defensive player shall be permitted to secure control of the ball while both feet are off the playing court and land with one or both feet in the Backcourt� It makes no difference if the first foot down was in the frontcourt or backcourt�
Art. 10. After a jump ball or during a throw-in, the player in his frontcourt, who makes the initial touch on the ball while both feet are off the playing court, may be the first to secure control of the ball and land with one or both feet in the backcourt� It makes no difference if the first foot down was in the frontcourt or backcourt�
PENALTY (Section 2-12):
The ball shall become dead or remain dead when a violation occurs. When the ball passes through a basket during the dead ball period immediately after a violation, no point(s) can be scored. The ball shall be awarded to the opponents for a throw-in at a designated spot nearest to where the violation occurred.

That is the entire rule. It says absolute nothing about re-establishing in the back court. The ball must be in control by your team and in the front court for a violation to possibly occur.
 
https://www.athletic-officials.com/basketball/advanced-officiating/rule-9-9-backcourt-violation/

This is a good explanation of the backcourt rule. This is the pertinent section:
"The key to remember here is when did the defender actually “secure” control of the ball. Most times in these situations, the defender is still gathering the ball, has tipped the ball into the air, or tapped it to the floor. Even if it looks like the defender has “directed” the ball to the floor, the official can rule he/she was still in the process of gaining control and had not yet “secured” control of the ball. Until it has been “secured,” control has not changed. Until the ball has been secured and control established in this situation, a backcourt violation cannot be called".

Here's the other part of the explanation that stood out to me:
"In general though, don’t be quick to determine a backcourt violation has occurred. If there is doubt, there probably was not a violation."
 
The key to this play is Cousins saving the ball (or whomever it was for OU) saving the ball. If it's possession, then it's backcourt, it not, no violation.

This is not accurate. It was Cousins and even if his touching the ball was possession (which it was not), the ball still must move to the front court.

Read Rule 9, Section 12, Article 4.

"Art. 4. A player shall not be the first to touch the ball in his backcourt (with any part of his body, voluntarily or involuntarily) when the ball came from the frontcourt while that player’s team was in team control and that player or his teammate was the last to touch the ball before it went into the backcourt"


The ball was in the backcourt. It did not go into the backcourt. The last underlined part never happened.

OU was not in possession. The first underlined part never happened.

The ball did not come from the front court. The first bolded part never happened.
 
The key to this play is Cousins saving the ball (or whomever it was for OU) saving the ball. If it's possession, then it's backcourt, it not, no violation.

nope not backcourt either way ... possession by cousins in this case doesn't matter ..
 
I was just sitting here re-watching portions of the game. It's unbelievable how many point blank layups and put-backs we missed. Ryan Spangler was as off as I've ever seen him. I'm not worried though. We'll recover from this.
 
Not true. Buddy was in the backcourt and never re-established himself. So when he first touched the ball, he was considered to be in the backcourt, which is fine. But when he came to rest, he was in the front court, which is why the call was correct, ASSUMING he did actually touch the ball before he touched the ground. I didn't watch a replay to see if that was in fact true, but it appeared to be true to me.

They got this one right.

this is not what happened. Cousins saved the ball on the sideline. It was in OU's backcourt and remained in OU's backcourt. Hield came from the front court and got possession of the ball in the back court. The ball never crossed the mid court. Hield probably got a foot down before he touched the ball but it doesn't matter. There was not an over and back violation. The ball must be controlled, in the front court and move to the back court by the touch of the offensive team. None of those three things happened.
 
I was just sitting here re-watching portions of the game. It's unbelievable how many point blank layups and put-backs we missed. Ryan Spangler was as off as I've ever seen him. I'm not worried though. We'll recover from this.

Please go to the final minute of the first half and tell us what happened. Specifically, did the ball ever cross mid court. I am virtually positive it did not. In fact, I don't even think it came close to crossing the mid court line.
 
Please go to the final minute of the first half and tell us what happened. Specifically, did the ball ever cross mid court. I am virtually positive it did not. In fact, I don't even think it came close to crossing the mid court line.

As I mentioned in my previous post, it did not.
 
Ok, just re-watched the play. Ball was bouncing towards the sideline, far from the midcourt line. Cousins saves it off an ISU player. Buddy was in the frontcourt and reached back and tapped the loose ball, but did not possess the ball until coming back to the backcourt. This was clearly NOT a violation. Jay Bilas was absolutely correct.
 
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BTW, Buddy's tip-dunk was impressive, he can really sky. His head was up by the rim. He really seems to have improved his athleticism.
 
Ok, just re-watched the play. Ball was bouncing towards the sideline, far from the midcourt line. Cousins saves it off an ISU player. Buddy was in the frontcourt and reached back and tapped the loose ball, but did not possess the ball until coming back to the backcourt. This was clearly NOT a violation. Jay Bilas was absolutely correct.

So the only possible way that is a backcourt violation is if Buddy's reach back and touching the ball constitutes control under Article 3.
 
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