Guards are the problem

SoonerNorm

Super Moderator
Joined
Nov 4, 2008
Messages
19,033
Reaction score
1
First, start with shooting. Here are the stats of the starting guards in conference play:

Gabbi- 41% fg, 26% BTA
Peyton- 38% fg, 29% BTA
Gioya- 41% fg, 26% BTA
Maddie- 34% fg, 24% BTA

Compare those numbers to Alexis Jones, who is my idea of a very effective guard. She shoots 44% from the field and 42% from BTA

On defense, we leave a lot to be desired. We have trouble keeping quick players in front of us. When we are getting beat, we foul. Our help defense is often non-existent.

Will the addition of Mulkey, Dungee, and Rich turn us around? Doubtful. We have to have players like Patterson and Gray to go along with Dungee and Ana. Im still upset about losing Wilson to Arkansas. Hope we don't do the same thing with the other young Oklahoma players who are really good.

The questions are, will Sherri make staff changes, will she become more demanding of player improvement, will she insist players improve conditioning?
 
I wish I could say "Yes" things will be revved up, altered, improved, changed, etc.; that players will stay at home this summer, in the gym every day, shooting, conditioning, working on speed, lateral quickness, pump fakes, layups, etc.

We know the players work in the summertime, but it's what level they are working at that you have to wonder about.

I wish I could say "Yes" Sherri would refocus or change whatever needs to be changed to reignite our program to the Final Four level, whether it be duties, recruiting and changing the staff, etc.

And she might do some or all. She's smart enough to see what is happening. I wish she'd sit down with Bob and say "How'd you do i?"

But I don't think she's going to do so. I know she's been upset, mad, etc. probably more than at any time since the first couple of years she was here.

The problem is, however, what she's done, the type of kid she's been willing and able to recruit and the type of kids who are wanting to sign with us.

Perhaps Sherri will surprise me/us. She's always seemed to be an outstanding person, a great coach and a wonderful leader and role model.

Next year is the break year with me about her future. It has to be better or I'm going to join the chorus of those who think it's time for her to go.
 
First, start with shooting. Here are the stats of the starting guards in conference play:

Gabbi- 41% fg, 26% BTA
Peyton- 38% fg, 29% BTA
Gioya- 41% fg, 26% BTA
Maddie- 34% fg, 24% BTA

Compare those numbers to Alexis Jones, who is my idea of a very effective guard. She shoots 44% from the field and 42% from BTA

On defense, we leave a lot to be desired. We have trouble keeping quick players in front of us. When we are getting beat, we foul. Our help defense is often non-existent.

Will the addition of Mulkey, Dungee, and Rich turn us around? Doubtful. We have to have players like Patterson and Gray to go along with Dungee and Ana. Im still upset about losing Wilson to Arkansas. Hope we don't do the same thing with the other young Oklahoma players who are really good.

The questions are, will Sherri make staff changes, will she become more demanding of player improvement, will she insist players improve conditioning?

Excellent Analysis, Norm.

The guards have struggled this entire season. In yesterday's game they dropped off a huge amount from even the numbers you listed. They shot just 17.6%. Seriously. And TT entered the game and instantly turned into a turn over machine and had to be pulled.

I am usually pretty optimistic but admit I don't know what to expect next year. I do know if we get into a FT situation where the opponent gets to shoot 38 free throws and our coaches never protest, we cannot win even if we shoot 100%. Over the course of the next few weeks I will do an analysis, but I think a pattern of foul calling has developed over the past few years.
 
See, I thought Sherri was complaining and talking to the refs more than I've seen her do all season. She wasn't Mulkey berserk but she was up in their faces talking pretty steadily to them.

Sometimes I wish she would throw a chair or noticeably scream the "F" word (although I don't think curse words are in her vocabulary).
 
[QUOTE=SoonerNorm;
1. Will the addition of Mulkey, Dungee, and Rich turn us around?

They can if Dungee and Rich live up to their press clippings and start. I believe we don't necessary have to have Mulkey start, but would be great to have her make an impact.

2. We have to have players like Patterson and Gray to go along with Dungee and Ana.

We need impact players from this point on whether that is Patterson and Gray or someone else that is out there. Projects will only hurt at this point.

3. Will Sherri make staff changes?

No not unless Pam is leaving and to me that would be a very big problem. Jan and TK are not going anywhere unless they leave on their own, because Sherri will not run them off. I would believe if it was suggested that she make changes to her staff besides Pam she would back her bags and leave.

4. Will she become more demanding of player improvement?

I can't see this happening either. Either the players take it upon themselves to become better or we will see more the same.

5. Will she insist players improve conditioning?

I can't see this happening either. Either the players take it upon themselves to become better or we will see more the same.
 
I haven't seen Gray play... If she's just another tall kid who can shot but not do much else she won't help this team much... I'd rather OU go out and sign a player like Alaysia Styles who might not be ranked, but has a lot of upside...

Maryland is following Styles but no one from OU is. It doesn't look like she is even on our radar.
 
Maryland is following Styles but no one from OU is. It doesn't look like she is even on our radar.

It was reported that Pam was following her at one time, maybe the relationship has cooled
 
We need to replace Ortiz and keep Maddie from disappearing in games like she does so much. I think Maddie is highly overrated.
 
We need to replace Ortiz and keep Maddie from disappearing in games like she does so much. I think Maddie is highly overrated.

I think Manning has be highly undeveloped...
 
I like our guards. You can't watch Gioya and Peyton's emotions in the post-game press conference last night and argue that they don't give their all to this program. And in the rare moments when they are clicking, you can really see the potential that they have.

But GOOD LORD their 3-point shooting was dreadful all season long (our layup percentage was, too, but I digress). On the season, we averaged 31% from 3. The only person who shot even remotely higher than our average was Derica at 39%. For perspective, if Derica were on the men's team, she would have the 5th highest 3-point percentage. And at times it was hard for Derica to get enough attempts because the defense knew they could stay with her because no one else is a threat from deep.

I don't know why this is. Did they not work on their shots enough in the offseason? Was Sherri's play-calling poor? Is it everyone's fault for poor execution? Is it just Gabbi's fault for poor execution? Are they not athletic enough? Did Sherri not push them hard enough to improve? Did we just totally lose confidence? Are our practices not conducive to in-game 3 point success? Do we have nagging injuries? Maybe it's a little bit of all of the above.

Whatever the case, it's clear the potential is there. If our guards would've shot just 35% from 3, we likely would've won a few more games and maybe that could've trickled to other things being different. I hope each and every guard (and forward) takes it upon herself to start with the offseason and WORK on their 3-pointers.
 
Gabbi 34.8% 32.4% FT% went up from 70.2 to 87.5%
Peyton 39.9% 33.1%
Gioya 39.4% 34.3%
Maddie 38.1% 33.3%

First, let's look at the overall statistics for the past two years. If there was a decline during conference play this year, why was that? They are pretty close to identical.

Curiously, I've seen guards in the Big Twelve shoot worse and make the All Big Twelve team. In 2015, Bria Holmes shot 39.9%, 24.1% from three, and made first team all big twelve and had all american mention. She was a superstar while shooting about what our players shot, and we all shot better from three, about nine or ten points better.

The only problem is that we expected more than last year, and it didn't happen. Why didn't these four improve. I think at the end of the year, Maddie had improved, but not so much as a scorer. Peyton had a couple of games. Gioya and Gabbi seemed to decline. Gioya has a partial excuse. How much did that injury limit her? She was exhausted a lot. It caused her to reach in a lot.

If next year is a repeat, I think we may see a lot of Dungee and Rich. Maddie and Gabbi will play because they are all we really have at their positions. Peyton and Gioya are scoring guards, not ball handlers, rebounders, or assist makers. Their worth is almost totally based on their value as scorers. Peyton was a highly-ranked recruit because of her scoring.

I don't expect a lot out of T'Ona or LaNesia, and whatever we get is gravy. TT can play defense, and she is good when she remembers her limitations. LaNesia has been a disappointment to me. The jury is out on Penzo. She still shows me more all-around talent than anyone else on the bench. She can handle the ball, even in a crowd. Now, can she shoot. If Gabbi can't get settled down, I might be looking at Penzo at point next year. She seems to be able to think on her feet, and she can pass effectively. Remember that Penzo is a year away from an ACL tear, and she was only sixteen when we recruited her. She is probably only 18 now. She is 18-19, coming off an ACL, and she is no willow.

I don't like it when we try so much to score from the post. We don't have Courtney, and I didn't like not having good scoring from the guards when we had Courtney. I would like to see someone explode next year. Something was wrong this year, and we didn't really see much out of the guards we had seen produce before. The only player on the team that I thought improved more than I thought she would was Vivi. Maddie began to come on late, but I have been expecting that. Everyone else on the team was a bit of a disappointment.
 
Congrats to the student-athletes of OU WBB! In my opinion...they excelled to the level of realistic expectation, and maybe beyond. They have played as well as can be expected. They do not have the collective skill level or athleticism to compete beyond what they did yesterday and especially do not have the tournament game experience to go any further. Hopefully, the returning players will build on what they've gained in experience, commit to ongoing development and pray that the incoming class is better than expected. They'll probably make it to the 2nd round again, and again, and again...until the recruiting improves. It requires more overall (mentally and physically) skilled recruits to begin to work toward the top 10 in the polls and Final Four wishes. It doesn't make these players unworthy of congrats...it appears they've done the very best possible.

PS...never-the-less it is still disappointing to know that more could be done to improve the overall program.
 
What exactly does Sherri's son contribute to this team and University? Another Norman High addition. How about bringing in Sherri's mentor Dan Hays, he's free and wants to still be involved in BB. A great coach, he could be a great asset, even in a part time situation.
 
Syb, I could not agree more with your analysis.

I know what you have long thought about Maddie and hoped for. We all have. For you to make such a statement about her (and the entire state of the program) is extremely fair and balanced.

I simply cannot fathom why the shooting was so poor all season.

Do you think there is some disconnect between the coaches and players? That's all I can think might be possible after the performance and all the players meetings and Kornet's departure.

Maybe a schism has developed.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Syb, I could not agree more with your analysis.

I know what you have long thought about Maddie and hoped for. We all have. For you to make such a statement about her (and the entire state of the program) is extremely fair and balanced.

I simply cannot fathom why the shooting was so poor all season.

Do you think there is some disconnect between the coaches and players? That's all I can think might be possible after the performance and all the players meetings and Kornet's departure.

Maybe a schism has developed.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think we have not a clue. Let's avoid being the amateur wannabes that think they can coach OU to a title. I'm not sure it can be done. Remember that neither our men's or women's team has ever won a basketball title. Is the men's team as proficient at attracting out of state talent as the women's team has been. Careful, Buddy is an allusion, someone on whom we got lucky. Our men's team was built on Alvan, Wayman, and Blake, all of whom went to school in Oklahoma. We lost superstars to Kansas, Duke, and Georgia Tech. This isn't football.

I have no clue what to think about Kornet's departure. She seemed so happy here. I wonder if she felt rejected when she saw that Maddie, Gioya, and Peyton would be starting, like her turn that she had been waiting for was not to come? It just seemed so pointless, unless she wants to be in grad school in UCLA. Who was her best friend on the OU team? Wasn't it Peyton?

Sherri is a guard's coach. You saw it in the development of Stacy, Danielle, Dionnah, Whitney, and Maria. I don't know that we have seen it in Morgan or Gabbi yet. I get the feeling that it could have been Maddie. But, she needs that relationship that she had with Stacy to be with Gabbi. Bud used to have that relationship with his quarterbacks. They became so in sync with Bud that he didn't need to call plays. They were Bud. I think Stacy was Sherri. Maddie could be Sherri. Gabbi needs to be. I strongly suspect that the reason that T'Ona gets time is that she is more in sync with Sherri than is Gabbi. I wonder if Penzo isn't the next one. There is something about a Sherri guard that sets them apart mentally. I think Sherri would have loved Quannas White. I think this year's men's team would love Quannas.

What this team lacked, and has lacked in recent years, is not talent. We've had adequate talent. What we have lacked is that Sherri-guard leader, the one that controls the floor and keeps the flow going. We lost to North Texas. Then, we beat BYU badly. We went to Seattle and beat a Sweet Sixteen team on their home floor. We should be playing that Sweet Sixteen team for a shot at Notre Dame. We get up, and go down. Floor leader.

I thought Gabbi would be the one. She seemed to be it last year. She was developing into a Sherri-guard. Then, she went to the national team and never came back to OU. What we had was a look-alike. We need to get Gabbi back and have her play the point for two years, as a Sherri-guard.

If you can't score, I want you to distribute. I expect rebounding, defense, distribution, and intensity. In the last fifteen games or so, we got that from Maddie. She did something every game that made her valuable. If we don't get the same from Gioya and Peyton, I'd rather have Dungee, Rich, or Penzo on the floor. I know that Penzo can distribute and handle the ball. Just don't make mistakes. Take what is available. I hope that the Peyton and Gioya that I saw this year are on the bench next year. They must get their act together, or sit. At this point, I would put Peyton, Gioya, Penzo, Rich, and Dungee in a group and take the best two scorers, as long as they didn't negate their scoring with mistakes. Penzo gets a leg up because she can distribute. Gioya and Peyton have their work cut out for them. They were better than this.
 
Kornet's best friend, I believe, was Maddie.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
The reason we don't shoot well is that we don't get that many good open shots where the shot is taken from a good spot, open and in rhythm. Many shots are from well behind the arc and more often than not rushed and under pressure.

We seem to either go to the posts who get a lot of shots blocked, drive all the way to the hoop and get shots blocked or dribble around out front and have to launch a trey under pressure. We had three pretty good shot blockers this year and blocked 112 shots but we had 135 blocked in 33 games.

Other than Carter we don't look very often for a mid range shot. Payton has a nick mid range shot but I don't know how many times she drove across the land this year never looking to shoot.

I thought Maddie closed the season strong, Little was hit and miss and I think Carter was more consistent than in the past. A lost season for Ortiz. Can't understand that. Maybe she thought it would be easy after making the national team. KayKay had and improved year but still missed a ton of layups and had too many shots blocked for someone with as many good moves that she has. ViVi also had too many shots blocked but she is tough on the boards and on defense She blocked 51 of the 112 shots we blocked this year in just over 15 minutes a game played. She was still the third highest scorer on the team. She needs to develop a hook shot to go with the quick moves she has to the hoop.

We seem to have energy one game and lots of movement on offense resulting in good shots and not the next time. That has to be on the coaching staff. They are responsible to put players on the court that will play hard all the time.

The skills development is on the players. The day is long gone where you developed your skills in practice. Now to keep up with the competition a player has to work hard outside of practice to have adequate skills.

I am really impressed with Llanusa and liked what I have seen from Rich, Mulkey and Dungee but am not sure how they will fit into our system. Actually I am not sure what our system is.
 
Back
Top