Harrison Barnes vs. Cameron Clark

[Seymore Cox]

It's not about not giving someone credit, it's about simple math. If you have 5 or 6 guys who will get PT playing the same positions, It's going to affect how someone looks on going to a certain school. Yeah, he'll get PT anywhere he goes, but you aren't very smart if you think that Morningstar, Reed, Taylor, Releford and E. Johnson aren't going to get minutes anymore. Someone would have to leave. Theirs talk about redshirting Reed or Releford this year to free up minutes. If you Add a Xavier Henry to the mix and you add the potential of CJ Henry who didn't choose to go to KU without the assurance that he would get PT opportunities, you have a log jam at the interchangeable positions. Why would a guy want to split minutes with those guys when he can go to another good school and step in for a guy like Crocker who's leaving and compete with Willis and Cade Davis, guys who he is heads above right now. It's a choice of either playing 32-35 minutes a game at OU as a Freshman or 20-25 at KU. Now will that be the main reason he picks a school? No. But you're naive if you think a kid doesn't think about playing right away or being on the floor alot in choosing a school. I've come to the conclusion that you either don't know alot about basketball or will spin anything to make something look favorable for KU.

 

[Sooner Quick]

Have enough open ships for both.

This!

 

[Soonerspiff]

Here is a great Harrison Barnes interview from tonight after his game at the Jayhawk Invitational. As you can tell he's just an outstanding young man with a good head on his shoulders. I wish him luck wherever he goes and I have a gut feeling he's one of the next NBA superstars.

http://theshiver.com/

It is seriously unfair for someone to be that well spoken and a freak athlete at the same time.

 

[Seymore Cox]

It is seriously unfair for someone to be that well spoken and a freak athlete at the same time.

Isn't that something. He's like Obama, but can actually play.

 

[Cheno]

It's not about not giving someone credit, it's about simple math. If you have 5 or 6 guys who will get PT playing the same positions, It's going to affect how someone looks on going to a certain school.

Depends what they are looking at. If a guy wants to come in and shoot 30 times a game then KU probably isn't the place. OU's probably not the place. I don't think Clark is that type of player. You probably know more about his game than me so you may have more insight that he is.

Yeah, he'll get PT anywhere he goes, but you aren't very smart if you think that Morningstar, Reed, Taylor, Releford and E. Johnson aren't going to get minutes anymore.

You are wrong, I am very smart. Appreciate the rude comment though. Pure class. I am smart enough to know a MCDAA (like I feel Clark will be) isn't too worried about Brady Morningstar & Tyrel Reed. To argue the point is silly since it happened this year with X Henry. He came to KU to play with all those guys you mentioned. Just as Drew Fitzgerald came to OU to play with a very good group of bigs.

Why would a guy want to split minutes with those guys when he can go to another good school and step in for a guy like Crocker who's leaving and compete with Willis and Cade Davis, guys who he is heads above right now.

Again, I don't know every kid is different. But highly rated kids every year decide to go to schools with lots of other highly talented kids. Why do you think the Dukes, UNC's, etc of the world are good every year? Some kids want to be the man and shoot 25 times a game, some kids want to win National Championships, some kids choose a school purely on the coach, etc. Every kid is different. But again, it happens all the time that kids go to play with other highly rated kids. And personally I don't think Cade Davis and Ray Willis are as bad as you obviously do. You act like they are horrible. So if I'm a top 25 player who wants to get to the league I want to play against guys that are going to push me in practice to be the best. Your assertion of Davis & Willis (I totally disagree with it) means Clark won't have any comp in practice. That's not what competitors look for.

But you're naive if you think a kid doesn't think about playing right away or being on the floor alot in choosing a school.

Sure they think about it. But that doesn't automatically knock a team out of consideration. It's proven year after year.

So is it your belief that KU won't sign another highly rated Guard/Wing in the 2010 class? Is it your belief Texas won't sign another highly rated guard/wing in the 2010 class? How in the world did Kentucky sign both Cousins & Orton when they already have Patterson? How in the world is that possible? How in the world did UNC sign 3 MCDAA that all play the same PF position this year? All in one year. Again, it happens every year. Do I need to give more examples?

 

[Seymore Cox]

Depends what they are looking at. If a guy wants to come in and shoot 30 times a game then KU probably isn't the place. OU's probably not the place. I don't think Clark is that type of player. You probably know more about his game than me so you may have more insight that he is.

You are wrong, I am very smart. Appreciate the rude comment though. Pure class. I am smart enough to know a MCDAA (like I feel Clark will be) isn't too worried about Brady Morningstar & Tyrel Reed. To argue the point is silly since it happened this year with X Henry. He came to KU to play with all those guys you mentioned. Just as Drew Fitzgerald came to OU to play with a very good group of bigs.

Again, I don't know every kid is different. But highly rated kids every year decide to go to schools with lots of other highly talented kids. Why do you think the Dukes, UNC's, etc of the world are good every year? Some kids want to be the man and shoot 25 times a game, some kids want to win National Championships, some kids choose a school purely on the coach, etc. Every kid is different. But again, it happens all the time that kids go to play with other highly rated kids. And personally I don't think Cade Davis and Ray Willis are as bad as you obviously do. You act like they are horrible. So if I'm a top 25 player who wants to get to the league I want to play against guys that are going to push me in practice to be the best. Your assertion of Davis & Willis (I totally disagree with it) means Clark won't have any comp in practice. That's not what competitors look for.


Sure they think about it. But that doesn't automatically knock a team out of consideration. It's proven year after year.

So is it your belief that KU won't sign another highly rated Guard/Wing in the 2010 class? Is it your belief Texas won't sign another highly rated guard/wing in the 2010 class? How in the world did Kentucky sign both Cousins & Orton when they already have Patterson? How in the world is that possible? How in the world did UNC sign 3 MCDAA that all play the same PF position this year? All in one year. Again, it happens every year. Do I need to give more examples?

Cheno, You can't go into a debate judging everything through a KU perspective. KU gets alot of kids because they're a good program. KU also gets alot of kids that choose not to go there because they have a roster full of talent. As for you Kentucky point, with Orton and Patterson being close friends, I'm sure Orton knew that Patterson was going pro. As a matter of fact Orton's father kinda leaked the Patterson going pro story. Patterson is not coming back, so that did play into the decision. Also the main reason Orton was non committal after BCG was fear of more post players being recruited. You have to ask yourself why did Calipari try to Import their whole signing class to UK except one guy, 6'9 post Will Coleman, a hand pick Orlando Antiqua player.

Also, just look at recruiting trends. You're not going to see a Xavier Henry and Lance Stephenson playing together. You're not going to see an OJ Mayo, Eric Gordon, or Derrick Rose playing together. You're not going to see Gerald Henderson and Wayne Ellington, who are best friends playing together. It just doesnt happen. There's just not enough shots to go around for those guys. Clark is approaching that level and Barnes definetely is in that level. KU has that dilemma of trying to recruit those guys, but then having alot of other guys who will get minutes from being good, experienced, and smart players. I'm suprised that you would throw other talented guys like Releford, Morningstar, Taylor, Reed, Johnson, etc. under the bus for the sakes of debating my point, but if those guys are at KU, they'll get minutes. I would be willing to hear from you on who will have to sacrifice minutes for Clark, far less Clark, Woolridge, and Barnes. That's where the debate lies. Not if Clark is good enough. Ed Davis was good enough, but he had to come off the bench. BJ Mullens was good enough, but he had to come off the bench. Sloth Aldrich was definetely good enough, but he had to come of the bench. Now am I saying Clark will have to come of the bench? I don't know. But It is assinine to think that as a Freshman, he's automatically going to jump two Seniors, two juniors, a sophomore, and one, potentially two other freshman and I'm not even considering Henry who I'm sold on coming back for his sophomore year. And in fairness, Self is going to have two of either Taylor, Johnson, or Reed emerge for the two PGs, but he's also going to play CJ Henry.

I know you think this is a partisan arguement against KU, but it's not. If it were reversed and OU had the depth coming back and KU didn't, I would think the same. KU's depth is going to end up working them out of recruiting alot of players and 2011 will be a year when that changes. Right now, KU fans are discussing redshirt possibilities because of their depth. That's going to play a factor for a guy like Clark who's going to have to split minutes with potentially 6 players.


BTW, I would be interested in knowing who you think will leave, or abandon minutes for the recruitment of Clark or any wing possibility they get.

Releford
Morningstar
Woolridge
Taylor
Henry

 

[Cheno]

Cheno, You can't go into a debate judging everything through a KU perspective.

I wasn't. And I gave multiple other teams as references.

KU gets alot of kids because they're a good program. KU also gets alot of kids that choose not to go there because they have a roster full of talent.

I totally 100% agree. You said KU was out of consideration with Clark. I'm curious as to how you know this and how you know which type of player you are talking about above that Cam Clark is. Do you know him? Do you know he doesn't want to play with other talented people?

I'm suprised that you would throw other talented guys like Releford, Morningstar, Taylor, Reed, Johnson, etc. under the bus for the sakes of debating my point, but if those guys are at KU, they'll get minutes.

I'm not throwing them under the bus at all. It is what it is though. They aren't top 10-15 in the country type players. Plus all of them with the exception of Releford are 6'3 and under. Clark and Barnes are 6'6 and true SF's.

I would be willing to hear from you on who will have to sacrifice minutes for Clark, far less Clark, Woolridge, and Barnes.

I think there is no chance that Clark & Barnes go to the same school. I don't have the phogiest idea where you came up with that. You're switching the debate. To me Woolridge is no threat in the eyes of Barnes and Clark.

Right now, KU fans are discussing redshirt possibilities because of their depth.

I wouldn't consider threads at phog.net a good place for reliable information. :ez-laugh:

That's going to play a factor for a guy like Clark who's going to have to split minutes with potentially 6 players.

Sure it's a factor but again I think Clark is that good that he plays wherever he goes. Do you know that he's worried about not being good enough to play right away?
X Henry is looking at the same situation but he was willing to come in. Same with Born Ready.

BTW, I would be interested in knowing who you think will leave, or abandon minutes for the recruitment of Clark or any wing possibility they get.
Releford
Morningstar
Woolridge
Taylor
Henry

I think Henry goes pro after this year and I don't think Releford and Morningstar are on the same level as guys like Clark and Barnes.

Do you think Cade Davis is that much worse than Releford and Morningstar? In fact, earlier in the year I believe you were one of the guys saying he was a lot better. Those guys are role players. Every team needs them and they are important but if you get a guy like Barnes or Clark they don't play much.

Again, top teams are stacked at positions and still get great players every year. Some recruits like that and some don't.
I'm curious how you know Cam Clark is a guy that doesn't. And if so why is KU & Texas even on his list?

 

[thebigabd]

I wasn't. And I gave multiple other teams as references.


I totally 100% agree. You said KU was out of consideration with Clark. I'm curious as to how you know this and how you know which type of player you are talking about above that Cam Clark is. Do you know him? Do you know he doesn't want to play with other talented people?


I'm not throwing them under the bus at all. It is what it is though. They aren't top 10-15 in the country type players. Plus all of them with the exception of Releford are 6'3 and under. Clark and Barnes are 6'6 and true SF's.


I think there is no chance that Clark & Barnes go to the same school. I don't have the phogiest idea where you came up with that. You're switching the debate. To me Woolridge is no threat in the eyes of Barnes and Clark.

I wouldn't consider threads at phog.net a good place for reliable information. :ez-laugh:

Sure it's a factor but again I think Clark is that good that he plays wherever he goes. Do you know that he's worried about not being good enough to play right away?
X Henry is looking at the same situation but he was willing to come in. Same with Born Ready.



I think Henry goes pro after this year and I don't think Releford and Morningstar are on the same level as guys like Clark and Barnes.

Do you think Cade Davis is that much worse than Releford and Morningstar? In fact, earlier in the year I believe you were one of the guys saying he was a lot better. Those guys are role players. Every team needs them and they are important but if you get a guy like Barnes or Clark they don't play much.

Again, top teams are stacked at positions and still get great players every year. Some recruits like that and some don't.
I'm curious how you know Cam Clark is a guy that doesn't. And if so why is KU & Texas even on his list?

I wish Davis could shoot as well as Morningstar..

 

[Seymore Cox]

Cheno, Cheno, Cheno, my man. You really love KU don't you?

Okay, this is was one of your response.

I

totally 100% agree. You said KU was out of consideration with Clark. I'm curious as to how you know this and how you know which type of player you are talking about above that Cam Clark is. Do you know him? Do you know he doesn't want to play with other talented people?

Cheno, I'm on a message board and have no personal knowledge of anybody in the Cam Clark circle. I can only judge trends. The first trend that I like is that OU was the first major program along with A&M recruiting this kid. Now A&M is out of the picture with him and OU is still at the top. The second trend is how he has spoken about OU in interviews. Even the interviews where he is not talking to an OU homer. In every interview he has had, the first team he has alway mentioned is Oklahoma. When they ask about his offers, the first listed one is mostly always Oklahoma. I like the trend of OU building a strong relationship with Wes Grandstaff and Team Texas. I like the trend that OU is in the top three for Pressey and have a commit from Taylor. I like the fact that He visited OU twice, more than any other major school outside of A&M and will probably camp at OU again. I like the fact that OU is an hour 1/2 trip from his home. Same trends of a Bradley Beal for KU, a Travis Releford, and a Tyrel Reed had with KU.

Right now, KU fans are discussing redshirt possibilities because of their depth.

Definetely not relliable, but KU fans are saavy enough to realize someone is going to be left out in the cold for minutes if a redshirt is not taken. Quite Frankly, I wouldn't be suprise to see Releford take it.

Sure it's a factor but again I think Clark is that good that he plays wherever he goes. Do you know that he's worried about not being good enough to play right away?
X Henry is looking at the same situation but he was willing to come in. Same with Born Ready.

He sure is good enough. Fact is, a month ago you wouldn't have thought that. Fact is three months ago, Bill Self didn't know that. Fact is a year and a half ago, Jeff Capel realized it.

I think Henry goes pro after this year and I don't think Releford and Morningstar are on the same level as guys like Clark and Barnes.

You think KU just went through that whole recruiting fiasco for a guy who will play one year and leave? You think CJ Henry Redshirted to play one year with his brother? You think CJ Henry chose to go to a team stacked with talent to play one year with his brother when he could have started at Memphis or been the backup PG at UK? You think CJ Henry, a guy who had the biggest determination in this decision chose to go to KU, not sit on the bench and not get any PT and play one year with his Brother? C,mon! I'm pretty sure the Henry Family are prone to take the same route Blake Griffin and his family took. There's a good chance Xavier will be the top pick in 2010. There's almost a lock of him being the top choice in 2011.

Do you think Cade Davis is that much worse than Releford and Morningstar? In fact, earlier in the year I believe you were one of the guys saying he was a lot better. Those guys are role players. Every team needs them and they are important but if you get a guy like Barnes or Clark they don't play much.

I think Cade has the potential, I think Cade is probably more athletic and obviously bigger than both, he's a better shooter than Releford, but I believe he is below those guys. I think Releford's a little more explosive and more gangsterish in trying to get to the tin, and Morningstar has a higher basketball IQ, the better shooter, and by far the best defender of all three. Morningstar is also a very capable athlete.

I really hope this isn't a KU vs. OU Barnes debate. I really, really, really thinkk Barnes is an OU lean. I think the evidence is in the fact that OU hasn't went after any other wings except for the elite wing in Dennis with it's last scholarship. You also aren't noticing alot of other wings listing OU as an offer outside of Clark. If you look at KU, they're recruiting alot of wings. Barnes, and Ferguson to name two and they're getting in on ultra scoring combo point Brandon Knight.

 

[Cheno]

Cheno, I'm on a message board and have no personal knowledge of anybody in the Cam Clark circle. I can only judge trends. The first trend that I like is that OU was the first major program along with A&M recruiting this kid. Now A&M is out of the picture with him and OU is still at the top. The second trend is how he has spoken about OU in interviews. Even the interviews where he is not talking to an OU homer. In every interview he has had, the first team he has alway mentioned is Oklahoma. When they ask about his offers, the first listed one is mostly always Oklahoma. I like the trend of OU building a strong relationship with Wes Grandstaff and Team Texas. I like the trend that OU is in the top three for Pressey and have a commit from Taylor. I like the fact that He visited OU twice, more than any other major school outside of A&M and will probably camp at OU again. I like the fact that OU is an hour 1/2 trip from his home.

I think Clark goes to OU as well. Because of Capel. Not that other mumbo jumbo of not wanting to play with great players. I think OU will have lots of good players on the perimeter as well...TMG, Pledger, Taylor, Cade, Willis, etc. I like all the things you said above as well. That is why I think he'll go to OU.