tmeyer3307
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Odomes needs to learn to go right first then shoot!! What D1 bball player can't go both ways and use both hands??
Honest assessment of talent on roster
- Thread starter thebigabd
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I feel you but actually Odomes goes to his right more than James goes to his left...
thebigabd
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The numbers kinda surprised me. But come on, guy was Big 12 Newcomer of the Year, Big 12 preseason newcomer of the year, All NCAA Tournament team, All Big 12 newcomer team, Honorable mention all big 12, etc.
I wouldn't leave him wide open.
SoonerinNC
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Good analysis but I think a little low on our current team and a little to high ratings on some of the Sampson era teams.
Laxtothemax12
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Sampson teams just had that end of game grit to grind out some games they shouldn't have won though.
chuckb
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thewez
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I'm sure if we could give unlimited scholarships Lon and the crew would've gotten as many JUCO's as they could. We only had 3 to give last year, and 2 of those guys are our best players, and another was a JUCO guy!
Can't go "fill the roster with JUCO's" this next year unless we run a bunch of guys off
Sooner04
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A lot of good stuff in this thread. Packed with level-headed analysis. It's been nice to read and reminisce. I'm going to pull a General Buck Turgidson and number a few of these points as I go.
1.
2.
Another problem I see is that some of the guys we want taking the shots are still tentative. We don't run good enough offense to pass up any open look. The open jumper at 22-seconds of the shot clock may be the best we get, because we have mastered the "oh ****" it's down to five" heave.
3. Odomes shooting 65% from the free-throw line is inexcusable. That needs to be 75%+ because he's the only guy in the years to come who can get there with any regularity.
4. The Christian James slump is a sophomore deluxe. I have no idea if he'll come out of it. The dude played very important minutes down the stretch last year, but he fires up some shots that are way off from the launch. Unreal.
5. Frank Booker was a good player, but required lots of babysitting. He'd be a very nice piece because he was a solid defender. I know Forte was probably thrilled to see him go.
6. Lattin needs to camp out on the low block. Moving out to shoot that chicken-**** ten-foot jumper only further clogs the lanes for our drives. Get the ball into the post and at least require the defense to move around a little bit.
7.
8.
9. 90% of the problems I see with our results is Woodard. This was his year. He was expected to take at least 15 attempts every night, get to the line, and average 18 points a game. Instead, he's AWOL for a month and has only posted four games all year where he's made half his shots. Yuck.
10. You'll find no bigger Kruger supporter than me, but we need to be better. I think we will be next year. There have been some losses this year that would send even the mightiest thoroughbred straight to the glue factory, but I'm going to persevere.
1.
I take exception with not naming Quannas White a good player. He was everything to that group. And he had to carry a big scoring load the next year (2003) when Ere caught Ryan Minor Disease (a senior who loses his shooting stroke.)
2.
Kelvin could beat anybody on a given night, and he could lose to damn near anybody on a given night. But they would defend like crazy and rebound like their life depended on it. This team simply cannot defend well enough to rebound as poorly as they do.
Another problem I see is that some of the guys we want taking the shots are still tentative. We don't run good enough offense to pass up any open look. The open jumper at 22-seconds of the shot clock may be the best we get, because we have mastered the "oh ****" it's down to five" heave.
3. Odomes shooting 65% from the free-throw line is inexcusable. That needs to be 75%+ because he's the only guy in the years to come who can get there with any regularity.
4. The Christian James slump is a sophomore deluxe. I have no idea if he'll come out of it. The dude played very important minutes down the stretch last year, but he fires up some shots that are way off from the launch. Unreal.
5. Frank Booker was a good player, but required lots of babysitting. He'd be a very nice piece because he was a solid defender. I know Forte was probably thrilled to see him go.
6. Lattin needs to camp out on the low block. Moving out to shoot that chicken-**** ten-foot jumper only further clogs the lanes for our drives. Get the ball into the post and at least require the defense to move around a little bit.
7.
They also got their clock cleaned in Stillwater and just lost to Missouri. Missouri is terrible. Awful. Arkansas can't win on the road for nothing. Where have you gone, Sidney Moncrief?
8.
I disagree. Anybody who averages 10 a game and plays quality D can be in my starting lineup anytime. He'll be a good one for us moving forward.
9. 90% of the problems I see with our results is Woodard. This was his year. He was expected to take at least 15 attempts every night, get to the line, and average 18 points a game. Instead, he's AWOL for a month and has only posted four games all year where he's made half his shots. Yuck.
10. You'll find no bigger Kruger supporter than me, but we need to be better. I think we will be next year. There have been some losses this year that would send even the mightiest thoroughbred straight to the glue factory, but I'm going to persevere.
NorthCarolinaSooner
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The biggest problem with this group is PG play. Woodard is not, and never has been a great PG. The guys around him the last three years covered a lot of his shortcomings.
We don't have those types of players surrounding him now and he isn't a "go to" guy. He doesn't create for himself well and forces bad shots, particularly off penetration. But he always has.
Improvement at that one spot would make the difference in most of those close games.
Woodard is a good player but he is not Elite.
Trae Young solves a lot of those issues if we get him but doesn't solve the issues of inside "toughness" that we also lack. I'm hopeful that the foreign big we are getting can help but we'll see. We have some of the right pieces...just need to keep building. I just hope we get Trae because, if we don't, I fear there isn't a high level back up plan which is what got Capel in huge trouble. (Putting all his eggs in one basket)
We don't have those types of players surrounding him now and he isn't a "go to" guy. He doesn't create for himself well and forces bad shots, particularly off penetration. But he always has.
Improvement at that one spot would make the difference in most of those close games.
Woodard is a good player but he is not Elite.
Trae Young solves a lot of those issues if we get him but doesn't solve the issues of inside "toughness" that we also lack. I'm hopeful that the foreign big we are getting can help but we'll see. We have some of the right pieces...just need to keep building. I just hope we get Trae because, if we don't, I fear there isn't a high level back up plan which is what got Capel in huge trouble. (Putting all his eggs in one basket)
thebigabd
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The problem with juco recruiting for Oklahoma since Sampson has been that it's a last resort to losing out on something like Pritchard, or potentially Trae Young, guys like that. If you are going to get a junior college player go out early and get the best ones that can fill roles for you.
Take Houston... again, Kelvin Sampson went out in the early signing period and got a piece that he needed filled for next season. A 6'6'' 220 juco wing named Gabe Grant.
As a freshman Gabe Grant averaged 18.3 points, 7.3 rebounds and 2.0 assists per game. Shoots 40% from the 3pt line, and hits about 75% of his free throws. He looks like a legit prospect.
"Gabe is one of the top junior college wings in the nation. He is an outstanding 3-point shooter with a high IQ and really understands the game at a high level," Sampson said. "Gabe is a good rebounder and is a player that can come in and impact our team in his first season."
What OU has been doing is waiting for Trae Youngs, Payton Pritchards, etc and trying to grab whatever players are left. The exception to that was probably Manyang but he had all sorts of issues unrelated to basketball.
Are you telling me OU couldn't go out, with their first choice (in the early signing period), and have get a guy like Rob Gray, Vladimir Brodziansky, Niem Stevenson, Gabe Grant, Devin Davis, Daryl Macon, etc to fill roles on the team around Doolittle, McGusty, etc.
Doesn't matter... if they don't go recruit a couple of starters out of the juco ranks and fill those with freshman, they aren't 17-6 right now. They aren't a great team by any means, but they are having an "ok" transition season because of their juco recruiting efforts.
Next year, I would expect Arkansas to put a pretty good team on the floor.
Yea, it doesn't always make sense... but what I would argue is that if you are going to have a lot of turnover, lose a lot of experience, or have immediate holes you know you need to fill, go get it in the early signing period.
OU strikes out on the Pritchards and Youngs of the world ALL THE TIME. Then you are left holding the bag.
You look at OU's big super star guys, Buddy Hield was an overlooked guy from the Bahamas, 3 star. Blake Griffin had his brother at OU and is from Edmond. Eduard Najera, Hollis Price, etc were all overlooked guys.
OU doesn't nab a ton of these high profile national guys that Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, etc are going after.
OU needs to realize who they are. I think Sampson knew exactly who OU really was, and how to put a winning team together on a regular basis at OU. Capel had horrible down years, Kruger is having a horrible down year, etc because they are trying to take best players available and then having to fill spots with guys who aren't OU level players.
This is all opinion of course, but I can make an argument that non-Sampson recruiting strategy has led to some really bad years and some big recruit strikeouts.
You sit around and wait for Pritchards and Youngs and you miss out on other guys who could have made your team a lot better, maybe even put a really good, top 5 seed team, etc on the floor.
That's really what it's all about... Compete in the Big 12 race, try to get a good seed, and try to make a run. That is OU basketball. That's always been OU basketball.
Take Houston... again, Kelvin Sampson went out in the early signing period and got a piece that he needed filled for next season. A 6'6'' 220 juco wing named Gabe Grant.
As a freshman Gabe Grant averaged 18.3 points, 7.3 rebounds and 2.0 assists per game. Shoots 40% from the 3pt line, and hits about 75% of his free throws. He looks like a legit prospect.
"Gabe is one of the top junior college wings in the nation. He is an outstanding 3-point shooter with a high IQ and really understands the game at a high level," Sampson said. "Gabe is a good rebounder and is a player that can come in and impact our team in his first season."
What OU has been doing is waiting for Trae Youngs, Payton Pritchards, etc and trying to grab whatever players are left. The exception to that was probably Manyang but he had all sorts of issues unrelated to basketball.
Are you telling me OU couldn't go out, with their first choice (in the early signing period), and have get a guy like Rob Gray, Vladimir Brodziansky, Niem Stevenson, Gabe Grant, Devin Davis, Daryl Macon, etc to fill roles on the team around Doolittle, McGusty, etc.
Doesn't matter... if they don't go recruit a couple of starters out of the juco ranks and fill those with freshman, they aren't 17-6 right now. They aren't a great team by any means, but they are having an "ok" transition season because of their juco recruiting efforts.
Next year, I would expect Arkansas to put a pretty good team on the floor.
Yea, it doesn't always make sense... but what I would argue is that if you are going to have a lot of turnover, lose a lot of experience, or have immediate holes you know you need to fill, go get it in the early signing period.
OU strikes out on the Pritchards and Youngs of the world ALL THE TIME. Then you are left holding the bag.
You look at OU's big super star guys, Buddy Hield was an overlooked guy from the Bahamas, 3 star. Blake Griffin had his brother at OU and is from Edmond. Eduard Najera, Hollis Price, etc were all overlooked guys.
OU doesn't nab a ton of these high profile national guys that Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, etc are going after.
OU needs to realize who they are. I think Sampson knew exactly who OU really was, and how to put a winning team together on a regular basis at OU. Capel had horrible down years, Kruger is having a horrible down year, etc because they are trying to take best players available and then having to fill spots with guys who aren't OU level players.
This is all opinion of course, but I can make an argument that non-Sampson recruiting strategy has led to some really bad years and some big recruit strikeouts.
You sit around and wait for Pritchards and Youngs and you miss out on other guys who could have made your team a lot better, maybe even put a really good, top 5 seed team, etc on the floor.
That's really what it's all about... Compete in the Big 12 race, try to get a good seed, and try to make a run. That is OU basketball. That's always been OU basketball.
Soonerinkc
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OU strikes out on the Pritchards and Youngs of the world ALL THE TIME. Then you are left holding the bag.
You look at OU's big super star guys, Buddy Hield was an overlooked guy from the Bahamas, 3 star. Blake Griffin had his brother at OU and is from Edmond. Eduard Najera, Hollis Price, etc were all overlooked guys.
OU doesn't nab a ton of these high profile national guys that Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, etc are going after.
OU needs to realize who they are. I think Sampson knew exactly who OU really was, and how to put a winning team together on a regular basis at OU. Capel had horrible down years, Kruger is having a horrible down year, etc because they are trying to take best players available and then having to fill spots with guys who aren't OU level players.
This is all opinion of course, but I can make an argument that non-Sampson recruiting strategy has led to some really bad years and some big recruit strikeouts.
You sit around and wait for Pritchards and Youngs and you miss out on other guys who could have made your team a lot better, maybe even put a really good, top 5 seed team, etc on the floor.
That's really what it's all about... Compete in the Big 12 race, try to get a good seed, and try to make a run. That is OU basketball. That's always been OU basketball.[/QUOTE]
spot on
You look at OU's big super star guys, Buddy Hield was an overlooked guy from the Bahamas, 3 star. Blake Griffin had his brother at OU and is from Edmond. Eduard Najera, Hollis Price, etc were all overlooked guys.
OU doesn't nab a ton of these high profile national guys that Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, etc are going after.
OU needs to realize who they are. I think Sampson knew exactly who OU really was, and how to put a winning team together on a regular basis at OU. Capel had horrible down years, Kruger is having a horrible down year, etc because they are trying to take best players available and then having to fill spots with guys who aren't OU level players.
This is all opinion of course, but I can make an argument that non-Sampson recruiting strategy has led to some really bad years and some big recruit strikeouts.
You sit around and wait for Pritchards and Youngs and you miss out on other guys who could have made your team a lot better, maybe even put a really good, top 5 seed team, etc on the floor.
That's really what it's all about... Compete in the Big 12 race, try to get a good seed, and try to make a run. That is OU basketball. That's always been OU basketball.[/QUOTE]
spot on
Sooner04
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Good stuff here.
The Pritchard one hurts bad. And it hurts even more than that because the pursuit had ended. He was a long-time commit, and then he welched. Of course that's the very definition of "holding the bag" but that really put us in a bind. The pieces fit with him. Woodard stays at the 2 and maybe we close out of a couple of these soul-crushing losses.
I'm looking forward to next year. I'm anxious to see what becomes of the scar tissue. This is the first under-performing group of Kruger's tenure, and I think we'll rebound (even though our posts often fail in that pursuit).
We've had back luck. We lost two of the guys Kruger was likely counting on to be starters this year, in Pritchard and Grandstaff, and we lost them at a point that it was too late to replace them.
JUCOs are not the answer. D1 transfers are. OU should be looking to take a transfer in every class. Ryan Spangler, Romero Osby, Tashawn Thomas, and M'bath M'baye have been high end performers for OU. Those guys are out there, go get them. You take some of those guys to complement the high school guys you've been developing in the program. For example, coming off of a final four run, Lon Kruger should have had no problem getting a grad transfer who could contribute, rather than needlessly delaying the start of C.J. Coles medical career by a year.
JUCOs are not the answer. D1 transfers are. OU should be looking to take a transfer in every class. Ryan Spangler, Romero Osby, Tashawn Thomas, and M'bath M'baye have been high end performers for OU. Those guys are out there, go get them. You take some of those guys to complement the high school guys you've been developing in the program. For example, coming off of a final four run, Lon Kruger should have had no problem getting a grad transfer who could contribute, rather than needlessly delaying the start of C.J. Coles medical career by a year.
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tmeyer3307
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Oubre was about 10X better than Odomes not even close!
Yes. He was quite a bit more polished than Odomes is this year, but given time I think Rashard can and will be a stud in this league. He has shown flashes and given time and hard work he'll be all big 12 his Senior year. I think he and McGusty have potential in the NBA.
okhoops918
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McGusty and Doolittle...and the others.
Not sure we have a difference maker next year either yet.
Trae Young or a grad transfer or JUCO may change that.
James and Odomes show some promise.
Mcneace showing a little.
Lattin is what he is
Not sure we have a difference maker next year either yet.
Trae Young or a grad transfer or JUCO may change that.
James and Odomes show some promise.
Mcneace showing a little.
Lattin is what he is
chuckb
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There were 3 differences between Oubre and Odomes:
1. Oubre could shoot the basketball from long range
2. Oubre was was a year younger
3. Oubre had a me-first attitude
Incidentally, I didn't say Oubre wasn't better, though 10x is an absurd exaggeration. But Oubre was was a lefty who also couldn't go to his right. Period. The other commenter said essentially that a player who couldn't go right couldn't be a successful college basketball player. I think we both agree that Oubre was (basically ) a successful college basketball player.
Co-signed!
