How good is this roster next year...

[Sawyer]

Yes, I expected it with MU. Baylor was a surprise, though. But again, they had some pretty major changes. OU isn't bringing in a guy like Udoh.

For every MU in 09 or Baylor in 10, there are 2-3 teams every year stuck on the bottom.

I draw my line at illogical and stupid. Putting the odds for an OU top three finish anywhere better than extremely unlikely is both.

 

[Max Power]

Yes, I expected it with MU. Baylor was a surprise, though. But again, they had some pretty major changes. OU isn't bringing in a guy like Udoh.

For every MU in 09 or Baylor in 10, there are 2-3 teams every year stuck on the bottom.

I draw my line at illogical and stupid. Putting the odds for an OU top three finish anywhere better than extremely unlikely is both.

But you are forgetting the off chance that we fire Capel. Then depending on who we get as a coach, we could have a huge jump

 

[Section31]

I draw my line at illogical and stupid.

From the lack of validity of the posts you made about on the subject of a team rising from the bottom, I think its fair to say you'd be an expert on the quoted line above...

 

[Sawyer]

But you are forgetting the off chance that we fire Capel. Then depending on who we get as a coach, we could have a huge jump

That would fall under the major changes category.



Klegg, you can feel however you want about me or what I post. Doesn't really matter to me. If you want to go into next season with a top three conference finish in mind, be my guest.

 

[Section31]

That would fall under the major changes category.



Klegg, you can feel however you want about me or what I post. Doesn't really matter to me. If you want to go into next season with a top three conference finish in mind, be my guest.

I NEVER said that...I said it wasn't as far fetched as you think. You, of course, asked if anyone had ever done it and I pointed out two occurrences of it and you STILL don't want to hear it. If you don't want to know - don't ask. I would also contend that MOST of the teams that finish in the bottom half of the conference every year RARELY change and NONE of them are a traditional conference contender like OU (before anyone makes this a "yea, JC screwed that up.." - leave it alone), so the odds of it EVER happening is pretty rare which points out even more how possible it IS considering a perennial doormat like Baylor did it.

Oh, and I guess you thought Udoh would be that good before the season started that year too. I mean, he had such great numbers at Michigan and all.

 

[Sawyer]

I'm assuming you're at least semi-literate and are familiar with the concept of reading every word in a sentence and putting those words together to form a coherent thought. With that assumption in mind, I'm going to re-pose my original question:

Has any team ever gone from bottom 3 to top 3 in one year without major roster changes?

See, that second part is key.

There's not a whole lot of talent on the current Oklahoma roster. OU loses arguably its best player after this season, adds a transfer with an unremarkable resume from the SEC and another recruit or two. If there are any major changes there, it's in the wrong direction. Maybe Osby will come in and light the world on fire, but I wouldn't expect much from a guy who averaged 3.2 points per game in conference play over his first two years.

Again, I already said I didn't expect Baylor to do what they did. But that's really not a comparable situation to OU right now. They lost three of their biggest contributors prior to the year, but added Udoh (a defensive force who had actually proven something on the college level) and completely revamped their identity. They went from an undersized guard-dominated team (with selfish guards running the show) to one of the biggest teams in the country, and they used that length to great effect in their zone. Those were some MAJOR changes. I didn't expect that kind of improvement, but it really wasn't at all the same team as the previous year.

It's really not that difficult. Bad teams stay bad unless they go through dramatic change. That's really the only way to get out of the basement (or, in the case of this year's OU team, ensure you stay there after a disastrous 2009-10 season).

 

[NickZepp]

Has any team ever gone from bottom 3 to top 3 in one year without major roster changes?

Maybe Baylor?

 

[Sawyer]

I hate you.

And because I randomly feel like posting this:

Keith Clark
Orlando Allen
Juan Patillo
Kyle Cannon
Ray Willis
Bobby Maze

(players Capel signed instead of Ekpe Udoh, both out of high school and in the year he transferred)

 

[NickZepp]

You might have a lot of lower div 1 conference teams that have gone form worst to first fairly quickly without many roster changes. I don't know about major div 1 conferences.

 

[NickZepp]

I hate you.

And because I randomly feel like posting this:

Keith Clark
Orlando Allen
Juan Patillo
Kyle Cannon
Ray Willis
Bobby Maze

(players Capel signed instead of Ekpe Udoh, both out of high school and in the year he transferred)

I agree, I would rather have had Ekpe Udoh. Heck there's a lot of instate recruits I'ld rather have right now. Rontei Clarke would be nice to have. Most years if you get the best player in Oklahoma it's gonna end up being a pretty good player. Just since about 2000. Blake Griffin, Xavier Henry, JR Giddens, Bookout, DeAngelo Alexander, Sheldon Williams, Azabuke. You won't get perfect doing this. Keith Clark went to PCO, and that didn't work out. Most years if you get the top player in state it's a pretty good player. I think that's where we need to start going to year in and year out. Last year we got Neal and I think he'll work out pretty good.

 

[Sawyer]

Quin missing out on the top Missouri talent ended up being one of the final nails in his coffin. Tyler Hansbrough would've been a Tiger under just about any other coach (rumors persist in some well-connected circles that he actually did privately tell Quin he was going to sign). Instead he set records at UNC while we spiraled into the abyss.

Watching elite in-state talent excel elsewhere while your program flounders is quite possibly the worst experience as a college basketball fan (still not happy Beal signed with Florida, but can accept it begrudgingly since he had all but decided on that years ago when Mizzou still sucked).

 

[campbest]

Players make the biggest jump in their game between the end of the freshman season and about January-February of their sophomore year.

Newell, Clark and Neal can all improve.

To be honest, Pledger and Fitz aren't going to improve a whole lot. Fitz will never be able to grow or jump higher, Pledger is never going to become a lockdown defender. He just needs to concentrate on hitting shots.

 

[NickZepp]

Players make the biggest jump in their game between the end of the freshman season and about January-February of their sophomore year.

Newell, Clark and Neal can all improve.

To be honest, Pledger and Fitz aren't going to improve a whole lot. Fitz will never be able to grow or jump higher, Pledger is never going to become a lockdown defender. He just needs to concentrate on hitting shots.

I'm not sure why Pledger thinks he's a 3 point shooter. He's just not that good at it.

 

[campbest]

I'm not sure why Pledger thinks he's a 3 point shooter. He's just not that good at it.

See I disagree, really think he can hit shots. From watching him the main conclusion that I draw is he needs to work more inside-out, instead of the typical 2-guard mentality of going outside-in. Getting to the line or making some buckets inside would do wonders for his confidence and shooting stroke.

Now the problem is how do you get him shots closer to the rim? Honestly, that goes back to our half-court sets and lack of movement from the wings. Really think this team would benefit from a contiuous motion and/or back-door type offense. Fewer possessions, more movement, make the opponent defend.

 

[SoonerDan74012]

He just needs to concentrate on hitting shots.

Hate to break it to ya but he is just as a bad of a shooter as he is a defender.

 

[buttermaker1]

With this coaching staff today not good enough to make a run at the big 12 or a NCAA bid. Yes everyone on our roster should improve, however the top 4 of these 6 big 12 teams won't even have to try to beat us, UT, KU, MO KSU, A$M, Baylor. We won't beat any of these on the road.

Without a lebron James type late signee we are not a top 6 big 12 team next year. We will be at the bottom with the likes of OSU, Tech and ISU. We can't defend or rebound.

We have no post play. Our best post player's favorite move is either a spin into a triple team, result is a TO, or a off balance 15 foot fade away.

Why won't Fitz pass when he is tripled? That's bad coaching.

 

[Section31]

however the top 4 of these 6 big 12 teams won't even have to try to beat us, UT, KU, MO KSU, A$M, Baylor. We won't beat any of these on the road.

Were we not in the games THIS YEAR on the road at both of these places???

 

[scrybe]

Maybe I've missed something (haven't been on-line, watched TV sports news, etc. since late last week), but has it been established that we won't get Guerrero and/or Jurick?