I agree with Fran on Alondes Williams

steverocks35 said:
You said he was at better. Now you’re “pretty sure he made improvements.” He didn’t, at all.
Click to expand...

He didn’t get better at all from his freshman year to sophomore year? That is absurd.
 
Odomes showed improvement his sophomore year.
 
BCSooners said:
He didn’t get better at all from his freshman year to sophomore year? That is absurd.
Click to expand...

The numbers don’t lie but I’m actually sorry I brought it up, this has been litigated to death on this board.
 
steverocks35 said:
The numbers don’t lie but I’m actually sorry I brought it up, this has been litigated to death on this board.
Click to expand...

It’s not always about numbers, even though he was more efficient. I’ll drop it because I agree it has been a drawn out argument.
 
daqman said:
And sophomores have been a big disappointment under Lon for the past several years.
Click to expand...

usedtobe1 said:
Hmmm I guess you could say Doolittle was a disappointment when he had to sit out the first semester of his soph year..... and never got in the groove the second semester. You could count Bieniemy this year although he handles the ball well and plays good defense... but doesn’t add much offensively. I can’t really think of anyone else that could be labeled a disappointment.
Click to expand...

steverocks35 said:
Lattin? McNeace? Maybe Odomes, he never really got better either. Those are just 3 off the top of my head.
Click to expand...

daqman said:
James/Odomes/Mcgusty/Bieniemy/Doolittle
Click to expand...

Are you guys serious? Check the facts. I don’t see a ton of regression. JMHO. I’ll address each.
1. Khadeem Lattin - As a freshman he played in 34 games and didn’t start once. Averaged 2.0 points and 3.2 rebounds a game. As a sophomore started in all 37 games. Averaged 5.6 points and 5.3 rebounds per game.... shooting percentage improved from 43% to 55% and blocks per game doubled.
2. Jamuni McNeace - Redshirted his first year. As a RS freshman he averaged 1.2 points and 1.4 boards in 27 games all off the bench. As a RS sophomore he played in 31 games all off the bench averaging 4.7 points and 3.7 boards.
3. Rashard Odomes - As a freshman he only played in 17 games and averaged 6.4 minutes per game, 2.1 ppg and 0.9 boards per game. As a sophomore he played in 30 games, averaged 26.8minutes, 10.1 points, and 4.4 boards.
4. Christian James - As a freshman he appeared in 34 games all off the bench averaging 9.8 minutes, 3.0 points, and 1.76 boards. As a soph he started 14 of 31 games, averaged 22 minutes, 7.8 points, and 3.68 boards.
5. Kam McGusty - This one is debatable. His “disappointing soph year” had a lot to with a terrible attitude..... As a freshman he started 17 of 31 games, averaging 10.9 points and 2.2 rebounds. As a sophomore he started 8 of 32 games averaging 8.0 points and 1.9 boards..... not a ton of difference statistically.
6. Kristian Doolittle - I had already mentioned him, and he was suspended the first semester of his sophomore year and never got untracked. You sure can’t blame that drop off on Lon!!
7. Jamal Bieniemy - I mentioned him, too, although his sophomore year isn’t really any worse than his freshman year. As a frosh he averaged 4.9 points, 2.4 boards, and 3.5 assists. So far in his soph campaign, he is averaging 4.6 points, 3.9 boards, and 2.8 assists...... not much difference.
 
I thought McNeace was a guy who legitimately got better every year on campus. Unfortunately he probably needed about 3 more to become a good player.

Had a really nice start to senior year before he got hurt vs USC, then the wheels feel completely off.
 
Some of you are being unreasonably harsh. Coach Kruger is an outstanding coach, but not every guy is going to make amazing improvements from Year 1 to Year 4. Coach Sampson is also an outstanding coach, but only two of his players made amazing strides over four years. Actually, most of Coach Sampson's freshmen recruits did not stay with the program for four years so there is less of a sample size.

Still, while we would all love for every player to develop into a star like Hollis Price and Eduardo Najera, guys like Tim Heskitt, Renzi Stone and Johnnie Gilbert fall into the same category as some of the guys listed above. Also, Gilbert was a guy who you couldn't measure on stats alone - same as some of the more recent players.

I have always appreciated the efforts of all who have proudly worn the Crimson & Cream.
 
Going back over the thread I realize this is about expectations. Someone only disappointed you if you expected something more out of them and they didn't deliver. I don't think those guys were big disappointments because you usually don't expect a ton out of sophomores and lots of people believe in the sophomore slump. I think some of us are disappointed in Bieniemy because we expected he would be a big producer this year. I love the guy's game and I was a big fan of his last year. I think we all expected him to be a more assertive scorer this year, but he still is an excellent defender and passer. It's just tough to have a guy give you nothing in the points column when the team struggles mightily to score for many long stretches.
 
Last edited:
steverocks35 said:
Going back over the thread I realize this is about expectations. Someone only disappointed you if you expected something more out of them and they didn't deliver. I don't think those guys were big disappointments because you usually don't expect a ton out of sophomores and lots of people believe in the sophomore slump. I think some of us are disappointed in Bieniemy because we expected he would be a big producer this year. I love the guy's game and I was a big fan of his last year. I think we all expected him to be a more assertive scorer this year, but he still is an excellent defender and passer. It's just tough to have a guy give you nothing in the points column when the team struggles mightily to score for many long stretches.
Click to expand...

i think we can all agree with this .. .

i thought jamal would become a better scorer but maybe this is who he is and if so he can still be a solid college player as a defender and passer


now i will be very suprised if harmon doens't make a leap to 10ppg or more next season
 
BoulderSooner said:
i think we can all agree with this .. .

i thought jamal would become a better scorer but maybe this is who he is and if so he can still be a solid college player as a defender and passer


now i will be very suprised if harmon doens't make a leap to 10ppg or more next season
Click to expand...

Yes, Harmon is way too talented to continue to defer. He just needs his confidence to grow.
 
steverocks35 said:
Yes, Harmon is way too talented to continue to defer. He just needs his confidence to grow.
Click to expand...

Plus the dynamic of the team will be different next year without Doolittle. I think you will see a lineup of Harmon-Reaves-Williams-Manek-Kur and Harmon will get a lot more shots.

To be honest, I think the team will be better next year. Not because Doolittle is gone, he is a great player, but getting development from Reaves, Harmon, Williams, Kur, Manek, Hill, Victor, etc will overcome it and they will have more chemistry and balance.
 
thebigabd said:
Plus the dynamic of the team will be different next year without Doolittle. I think you will see a lineup of Harmon-Reaves-Williams-Manek-Kur and Harmon will get a lot more shots.

To be honest, I think the team will be better next year. Not because Doolittle is gone, he is a great player, but getting development from Reaves, Harmon, Williams, Kur, Manek, Hill, Victor, etc will overcome it and they will have more chemistry and balance.
Click to expand...

I agree
 
steverocks35 said:
The numbers don’t lie but I’m actually sorry I brought it up, this has been litigated to death on this board.
Click to expand...
You're arguing against yourself. Here are the numbers: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/khadeem-lattin-1.html

Lattin went from being a liability on offense (43% from the field, yuck) to a net positive, while on defense he increased his blocks and steals while decreasing his foul rate. His net rating (offense - defense) increased from +13 to +22 per 100 possessions. PER increased from 12.8 to 17.7. BPM from 6.8 to 10.2.

If you want to argue that Lattin peaked as a sophomore, you could certainly get numbers to back that up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

C
Quick Intro and a few thoughts
2
Replies
20
Views
1K
opsooner
O
S
A theory on what’s causing a late year slump & maybe fewer wins this year
Replies
1
Views
2K
Soonerinkc
Soonerinkc
thebigabd
Juco impact is strong at OU this year
2
Replies
36
Views
4K
skyvue
skyvue
M
Oklahoma Daily Article on Coach Jennie
Replies
5
Views
2K
Soonerguy06
S
O
A (Hopefully) Constructive “Negative” Post (returning players)
3 4 5
Replies
90
Views
18K
SoonerBounce13
SoonerBounce13
Back
Top