I apologize to Trae Young

[hoopsaustin]

Capel won 43% of his conference games at OU. Lon has won 49%, including 33% the last 3 years, worst in the league. It's time to get embarrassed again.

Just to put it in perspective further, here's our last 3 coaches' career conference win %:

Kelvin: 68%
Lon: 49%
Capel: 43%

Lon is much closer to Capel than he is to Kelvin.

Truth bomb dropped. Im just waiting on Wichita's permission to complain.... but hell come in with his next brilliant rebuttal on why we can't be unhappy

 

[WichitaSooner]

Capel won 43% of his conference games at OU. Lon has won 49%, including 33% the last 3 years, worst in the league. It's time to get embarrassed again.

Just to put it in perspective further, here's our last 3 coaches' career conference win %:

Kelvin: 68%
Lon: 49%
Capel: 43%

Lon is much closer to Capel than he is to Kelvin.

Lon inherited a sh&% hole of a program from Capel. The fact his winning percentage was as high as it was in his first five years was a miracle. Capel got us in trouble with the NCAA, recruited guys who didn't represent the program well, showed no interest in connecting with fans or previous players, and, on top of that, had/has no track record showing he can win without a generationally great player. If Lon manages to pull off all those things AND starts regularly missing the tourney, yep, I'll be embarrassed. But feel free to keep relying on the one stat you keep trotting out, since conference record is all you seem to care about. And keep acting like Lon can't win without Buddy. After all, Buddy was great on those Florida, Illinois, and K-State teams he took to the tourney.

And Austin, you can be unhappy all you want. But as the old saying goes, people are entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. And again, keep floating that nonsense out there that I am not unhappy just because I am not calling for a coaching change.

 

[thebigabd]

WTSooner,

Keep doing what you do. Don't let Sky or Wichita scare you off. They can celebrate around the dumpster fire, and we can call it like it is. I like both of those guys, even though they probably don't like me.

Truth bomb dropped. Im just waiting on Wichita's permission to complain.... but hell come in with his next brilliant rebuttal on why we can't be unhappy

This.

 

[hoopsaustin]

Lon inherited a sh&% hole of a program from Capel. The fact his winning percentage was as high as it was in his first five years was a miracle. Capel got us in trouble with the NCAA, recruited guys who didn't represent the program well, showed no interest in connecting with fans or previous players, and, on top of that, had/has no track record showing he can win without a generationally great player. If Lon manages to pull off all those things AND starts regularly missing the tourney, yep, I'll be embarrassed. But feel free to keep relying on the one stat you keep trotting out, since conference record is all you seem to care about. And keep acting like Lon can't win without Buddy. After all, Buddy was great on those Florida, Illinois, and K-State teams he took to the tourney.

And Austin, you can be unhappy all you want. But as the old saying goes, people are entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. And again, keep floating that nonsense out there that I am not unhappy just because I am not calling for a coaching change.

I love the post-2016 invoking of the absolute indisputable "facts" argument. Yes, everything you say is incontrovertible and based in only fact.. go on. Enlighten us mere mortals further

 

[WichitaSooner]

I love the post-2016 invoking of the absolute indisputable "facts" argument. Yes, everything you say is incontrovertible and based in only fact.. go on. Enlighten us mere mortals further

How about you try to point to anything I've said that is factually wrong? I know facts are awfully pesky when they get in the way of your subjective feels. But again, you and your cohorts can just keep pretending that I'm celebrating the way we are playing. Reading comprehension must not have been a strong point for you folks in school.

 

[hoopsaustin]

How about you try to point to anything I've said that is factually wrong? I know facts are awfully pesky when they get in the way of your subjective feels. But again, you and your cohorts can just keep pretending that I'm celebrating the way we are playing. Reading comprehension must not have been a strong point for you folks in school.

Thats the thing, i cant. Your reality is the one true factual reality. Thanks. Our team is awesome

 

[WTSooner]

How about you try to point to anything I've said that is factually wrong? I know facts are awfully pesky when they get in the way of your subjective feels. But again, you and your cohorts can just keep pretending that I'm celebrating the way we are playing. Reading comprehension must not have been a strong point for you folks in school.

I'll start.

Lon inherited a sh&% hole of a program from Capel. The fact his winning percentage was as high as it was in his first five years was a miracle.

That is an opinion, not a fact. Plenty of coaches inherit messes and turn them around fairly quickly. Heck, Lon even did that. The mess he inherited has what exactly to do with years 6, 7, and 8 under his watch? After he took a team to a Final Four at OU? THIS mess has nothing to do with Capel or the program Lon took over. So because MAYBE Lon overachieved in years 1-5, we should cut him some slack for years 6-8? I don't buy that.

You mentioned you'd be embarrassed if Lon regularly missed the Dance. Is missing in years 6 and 8 of his tenure not pretty regularly? I know. I know. You aren't conceding this year yet. But if it does? And what about next year? I personally don't see next year going much differently than this year. Same underwhelming post guys. Breaking in a lot of guards. Do we have enough scoring to take the pressure of the WSU transfer? LOTS of questions. In year 9.

But my point is, a lot of what you post is opinion that you try to pass off as fact.

 

[hoopsaustin]

I'll start.



That is an opinion, not a fact. Plenty of coaches inherit messes and turn them around fairly quickly. Heck, Lon even did that. The mess he inherited has what exactly to do with years 6, 7, and 8 under his watch? After he took a team to a Final Four at OU? THIS mess has nothing to do with Capel or the program Lon took over. So because MAYBE Lon overachieved in years 1-5, we should cut him some slack for years 6-8? I don't buy that.

You mentioned you'd be embarrassed if Lon regularly missed the Dance. Is missing in years 6 and 8 of his tenure not pretty regularly? I know. I know. You aren't conceding this year yet. But if it does? And what about next year? I personally don't see next year going much differently than this year. Same underwhelming post guys. Breaking in a lot of guards. Do we have enough scoring to take the pressure of the WSU transfer? LOTS of questions. In year 9.

But my point is, a lot of what you post is opinion that you try to pass off as fact.

Ding ding ding

 

[CMSOONER]

Lon inherited a sh&% hole of a program from Capel. The fact his winning percentage was as high as it was in his first five years was a miracle. I

This has been Lon's MO his entire career! Take over a program bad shape, have a couple good seasons and get them into the tournament then fizzle out and leave to rebuild another program. He's in the fizzle out phase now.

 

[thebigabd]

This has been Lon's MO his entire career! Take over a program bad shape, have a couple good seasons and get them into the tournament then fizzle out and leave to rebuild another program. He's in the fizzle out phase now.

CMSOONER is on fire here.

 

[WichitaSooner]

I'll start.



That is an opinion, not a fact. Plenty of coaches inherit messes and turn them around fairly quickly. Heck, Lon even did that. The mess he inherited has what exactly to do with years 6, 7, and 8 under his watch? After he took a team to a Final Four at OU? THIS mess has nothing to do with Capel or the program Lon took over. So because MAYBE Lon overachieved in years 1-5, we should cut him some slack for years 6-8? I don't buy that.

You mentioned you'd be embarrassed if Lon regularly missed the Dance. Is missing in years 6 and 8 of his tenure not pretty regularly? I know. I know. You aren't conceding this year yet. But if it does? And what about next year? I personally don't see next year going much differently than this year. Same underwhelming post guys. Breaking in a lot of guards. Do we have enough scoring to take the pressure of the WSU transfer? LOTS of questions. In year 9.

But my point is, a lot of what you post is opinion that you try to pass off as fact.

I asked you to point to anything that I've posted that is factually wrong, and instead you cite an opinion of mine that you disagree with. Obviously when I say that what he did the first five years was great, that's opinion. I didn't ever suggest that was a fact. Now, I'd say that if you ask 100 college basketball experts who don't have any skin in the game, they would unanimously agree with my opinion on that, but still, it's opinion. Then you point to my comment about not missing the tournament. That is, in fact, a fact. To this point we have made the tournament five of the past six years, and five of his seven overall. You ask if my assessment will change if we don't make it the next couple years. Well, gee, if the facts change, yes, my view of the facts will change accordingly. That's like asking whether your view would change if we make the Final Four three of the next five years. But it is beside the point because the BS that Austin accused me of was misstating facts, and none of you can show any examples of that. It is complete crap for all of you to lie about what I say and then bash me for the made up stuff. If people disagree with opinions I've actually stated, like me saying KU has better guards than we do, that's fine, that's what message boards are for, but why do you feel the need to fabricate and keep pushing the lie that I am unwilling to criticize the team?

 

[CMSOONER]

Lon inherited a sh&% hole of a program from Capel.

This is a fact! Chapel left the program in really bad shape.

The fact his winning percentage was as high as it was in his first five years was a miracle. Capel got us in trouble with the NCAA, recruited guys who didn't represent the program well, showed no interest in connecting with fans or previous players

This as previously mentioned is what Lon does best. Look back at his stops at Florida, Illinois & UNLV. These programs were in bad shape and Lon resurrected them, fizzled and moves on. He took KSU to the tourney each of his 4 years including an elite 8, but I honestly don't know what shape the program was in before he became HC.

On top of that, had/has no track record showing he can win without a generationally great player.

I would argue that he did show this in his time at Florida, Illinois and UNLV. However his KSU teams had Mitch Richmond and they made the tourney each of Lon's 4 years.

feel free to keep relying on the one stat you keep trotting out, since conference record is all you seem to care about. And keep acting like Lon can't win without Buddy. After all, Buddy was great on those Florida, Illinois, and K-State teams he took to the tourney.

I agree that you need to look deeper than conference record. In Lon's case, the history of his teams performance over his tenure points to a clear shelf life. And that shelf life is expiring, if it hasn't already. I love Lon as a coach and I think he's an even better human being. I am grateful for the revitalization he brought back to the program, but I think it's time for a change. If we're lucky the next coach will be our Bill Self or Billy Donavon.

 

[CMSOONER]

I'll correct myself...Lon's tenures at KSU, Illinois and UNLV were actually pretty consistently good. His 6 years at Florida however mirror his tenure in Norman. My memory apparently peaked a few years ago and is in the fizzling out phase.

 

[MrAnderson]

But feel free to keep relying on the one stat you keep trotting out, since conference record is all you seem to care about.

The one stat I care about? Yep you got me, win % is the one I care about. :ez-laugh:

That's the only stat that matters and Kruger isn't getting it done. 61% overall and 49% in conference in 7+ seasons. Next!

 

[stormspencer]

Wow....a lot of drama and confrontation going on in this thread. Since I've had a few bourbons....I will partake. I'm somewhat with Wichita and Coachtalk (snake oil salesman)....Lon is a good coach, but he has made more than few recruiting mistakes as far as guys that internally want to get better (i.e. Buddy, Isiaiah). If he is going to succeed, then he has to recruit more guys aforementioned that are willing to work their assets off and get better.

Having said that, the problem I have with Lon is that I'm not sure he is capable of identifying those "workers" anymore that are going to elevate our program once again. Its a tough call....I will give Lon one more year, but I dont have confidence that he is the answer. As some of our regular posters like WT and Austin have voiced their skepticism, I'm just not sure. In closing, until we look competent on the floor, I dont have much hope....sigh.

 

[CoachTalk]

Wow....a lot of drama and confrontation going on in this thread. Since I've had a few bourbons....I will partake. I'm somewhat with Wichita and Coachtalk (snake oil salesman)....Lon is a good coach, but he has made more than few recruiting mistakes as far as guys that internally want to get better (i.e. Buddy, Isiaiah). If he is going to succeed, then he has to recruit more guys aforementioned that are willing to work their assets off and get better.

Having said that, the problem I have with Lon is that I'm not sure he is capable of identifying those "workers" anymore that are going to elevate our program once again. Its a tough call....I will give Lon one more year, but I dont have confidence that he is the answer. As some of our regular posters like WT and Austin have voiced their skepticism, I'm just not sure. In closing, until we look competent on the floor, I dont have much hope....sigh.

Woah! I hate salesman. What did I do?

 

[hoopsaustin]

Wow....a lot of drama and confrontation going on in this thread. Since I've had a few bourbons....I will partake. I'm somewhat with Wichita and Coachtalk (snake oil salesman)....Lon is a good coach, but he has made more than few recruiting mistakes as far as guys that internally want to get better (i.e. Buddy, Isiaiah). If he is going to succeed, then he has to recruit more guys aforementioned that are willing to work their assets off and get better.

Having said that, the problem I have with Lon is that I'm not sure he is capable of identifying those "workers" anymore that are going to elevate our program once again. Its a tough call....I will give Lon one more year, but I dont have confidence that he is the answer. As some of our regular posters like WT and Austin have voiced their skepticism, I'm just not sure. In closing, until we look competent on the floor, I dont have much hope....sigh.

Same. 1 more year imo... but i don't think Kruger will/can do anything with supposedly better talent anyways so i won't expect much better than this year. Then we need to cut bait and move on.

Thank kruger for catching lightning in a bottle with hield/woodard/cousins and spangler and also freshman lattin (who never reached his potential at all). And i do appreciate the fact that kruger runs a clean ship... just wish he weren't a soft ass "players coach".. doesnt work with most millennials in college imo

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Didnt say that... You take on postition is awful. "imo"

top 15 recruiting class coming in with Manek, Doolittle, and Jamal a year older.

same song different verse. we have heard this the last 3 or 4 years

and is there something wrong with writing imo?

 

[CoachTalk]

same song different verse. we have heard this the last 3 or 4 years

and is there something wrong with writing imo?

We haven't had a top 15 class in the last 3-4 years?
But we did go the final 4 in there...

Nah. Opinions are great, some just a tad more real life than others.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

We haven't had a top 15 class in the last 3-4 years?
But we did go the final 4 in there...

Nah. Opinions are great, some just a tad more real life than others.

last year's class wasn't great because it was small. We didn't have the ships to hand out

2017 and 2016 were both top 25 classes

But I wasn't literally meaning we have had a top 15 class the last 3 or 4 years. I meant the sentiment that next year will be better! look at the players coming in and the upperclassman leadership! He just have to struggle through this year but next year will be exciting!