I apologize to Trae Young

Maybe but evens out the classes. Can’t take 6 freshmen.

Why not? That's how you build great teams in college basketball. Bring in 6 freshmen. Two likely don't cut it and end up transferring, and then you've got 4 guys who will grow and play 100+ games together. That's how you end up with championship teams.

Lon has the exact same problem that Capel did. He doesn't sign enough high school kids. He keeps playing the short term over the long term, adding random JUCOs and grad transfers that are nothing but stopgaps. Get high school kids in and develop them.

https://247sports.com/college/tennessee/Season/2016-Basketball/Targets/

This class is the reason Tennessee is #1 in the country. Want to know what it consisted of? 6 high school kids.
 
Why not? That's how you build great teams in college basketball. Bring in 6 freshmen. Two likely don't cut it and end up transferring, and then you've got 4 guys who will grow and play 100+ games together. That's how you end up with championship teams.

Lon has the exact same problem that Capel did. He doesn't sign enough high school kids. He keeps playing the short term over the long term, adding random JUCOs and grad transfers that are nothing but stopgaps. Get high school kids in and develop them.

https://247sports.com/college/tennessee/Season/2016-Basketball/Targets/

This class is the reason Tennessee is #1 in the country. Want to know what it consisted of? 6 high school kids.

And that sounds great anecdotally when you can point to one example of the best possible outcome. On the other hand, having 6-8 guys in the same class also is why WSU is a .500 team this season; they basically had to replace their entire roster, except two guys, after graduating a ton of guys last season. And this kind of approach significantly increases the odds of having a really down year once every few years -- and given the comments on this board, I don't think many of you would be very happy if every three or four years, you knew it would be a struggle just to win 14 or 15 games and not even be in contention for postseason play. I'm not a JUCO fan, but I do think it is smart to take advantage of the grad transfer market if you can find someone who can help.
 
Why not? That's how you build great teams in college basketball. Bring in 6 freshmen. Two likely don't cut it and end up transferring, and then you've got 4 guys who will grow and play 100+ games together. That's how you end up with championship teams.

Lon has the exact same problem that Capel did. He doesn't sign enough high school kids. He keeps playing the short term over the long term, adding random JUCOs and grad transfers that are nothing but stopgaps. Get high school kids in and develop them.

https://247sports.com/college/tennessee/Season/2016-Basketball/Targets/

This class is the reason Tennessee is #1 in the country. Want to know what it consisted of? 6 high school kids.

4.5 out of 6 is close!

I get it. I still think Juco and Transfers have a good place in all programs.
 
And that sounds great anecdotally when you can point to one example of the best possible outcome. On the other hand, having 6-8 guys in the same class also is why WSU is a .500 team this season; they basically had to replace their entire roster, except two guys, after graduating a ton of guys last season. And this kind of approach significantly increases the odds of having a really down year once every few years -- and given the comments on this board, I don't think many of you would be very happy if every three or four years, you knew it would be a struggle just to win 14 or 15 games and not even be in contention for postseason play. I'm not a JUCO fan, but I do think it is smart to take advantage of the grad transfer market if you can find someone who can help.


This is how you win as a program that can't recruit at an elite level. You recruit high school kids and develop them. You win big when you have a team loaded upperclassmen. You don't waste spots on stopgap grad transfers and JUCOs. You will definitely take a step back when you graduate a senior heavy class, but it doesn't have to be fatal. 6 in one class is not the norm, but that's because most teams don't have 6 scholarships available in one year, because they do a decent job of roster management.

As for Wichita St., what a terrible example. They won at least 25 games for 8 straight seasons and are finally having one down year.
 
Last edited:
Why not? That's how you build great teams in college basketball. Bring in 6 freshmen. Two likely don't cut it and end up transferring, and then you've got 4 guys who will grow and play 100+ games together. That's how you end up with championship teams.

Lon has the exact same problem that Capel did. He doesn't sign enough high school kids. He keeps playing the short term over the long term, adding random JUCOs and grad transfers that are nothing but stopgaps. Get high school kids in and develop them.

https://247sports.com/college/tennessee/Season/2016-Basketball/Targets/

This class is the reason Tennessee is #1 in the country. Want to know what it consisted of? 6 high school kids.

If I had more confidence in the current staff’s ability to develop high school players, I would agree with you. But for every high school recruit who has continued to get better in the last two seasons, I could point to at least one who digressed or stayed pretty much the same. Notice I said the current staff, so I’m not talking about the staff we had during our final four season.

I’ll be the first to admit that it helps (a lot actually) to bring in players like Buddy, Isaiah and Ryan who are gym rats and self starters with a burning desire to get better. There is an assumed advantage in recruiting jucos and transfers in that they are supposed to be older and more mature. Still, that is not an end all to player development if our staff fails to find a way to motivate them to spend more time in working on their own to improve their game and correct weaknesses. Coaching is not easy. That’s why they’re paid well.
 
This is how you win as a program that can't recruit at an elite level. You recruit high school kids and develop them. You win big when you have a team loaded upperclassmen. You don't waste spots on stopgap grad transfers and JUCOs. You will definitely take a step back when you graduate a senior heavy class, but it doesn't have to be fatal. 6 in one class is not the norm, but that's because most teams don't have 6 scholarships available in one year, because they do a decent job of roster management.

As for Wichita St., what a terrible example. They won at least 25 games for 8 straight seasons and are finally having one down year.

I know you want to blame lon and staff so bad.

But sometimes kids are what they are... At that point do you pull a ship?

James became a gym rat after his junior year, Odomes never has, Bigs havent put in the time to get better.

Yes these coaches recruited them, along with Henson and Hill (saviors for some of you)

The transfers of the shephard, mcgusty happen... mcgusty was a top 50 recruit that was a baby, pouted, thought he was better than TY.

Shepard as well, thought TY was below avg and dad wanted him to be the star.
 
I know you want to blame lon and staff so bad.

But sometimes kids are what they are... At that point do you pull a ship?

James became a gym rat after his junior year, Odomes never has, Bigs havent put in the time to get better.

Yes these coaches recruited them, along with Henson and Hill (saviors for some of you)

The transfers of the shephard, mcgusty happen... mcgusty was a top 50 recruit that was a baby, pouted, thought he was better than TY.

Shepard as well, thought TY was below avg and dad wanted him to be the star.


Lon and staff are responsible for the state of the program. Period. Not sure how that's even up for debate.


I have no idea if you are correct about guys not putting in the work, but that's an easy problem to solve. If you aren't putting in the work, you don't play. Guys will either start working, or get gone in a hurry. Again, this is on Lon. It's his responsibility to vet recruits for their attitude and work ethic. Nothing is perfect, but if you're consistently bringing in guys with issues, that shows a lack of quality control. If he is enabling a culture where kids aren't required to put in the work, that's on him as well.

As for the composition of the roster, again, that's on Lon. In the past 4 recruiting classes, he's taken 7 very iffy JUCOs and grad transfers. This program would be in much better shape if those had gone to high school kids. It's mind-boggling that there was one high school kid in the 2018 class. Instead we ended up with a project JUCO, two fringe grad transfers and a transfer. This stuff snowballs, too. Part of the reason we had to take those guys is because we didn't initially have spots to recruit into, because we gave guy like Ty Lazenby a scholarship. So he took a spot from a high school kid in two straight classes, and contributed nothing.
 
This is how you win as a program that can't recruit at an elite level. You recruit high school kids and develop them. You win big when you have a team loaded upperclassmen. You don't waste spots on stopgap grad transfers and JUCOs. You will definitely take a step back when you graduate a senior heavy class, but it doesn't have to be fatal. 6 in one class is not the norm, but that's because most teams don't have 6 scholarships available in one year, because they do a decent job of roster management.

As for Wichita St., what a terrible example. They won at least 25 games for 8 straight seasons and are finally having one down year.

Have you looked at the rosters of teams around the country? Many (if not most), including top 25-ish programs, have at least one transfer playing prominent roles. You take this black and white approach that is clearly not accurate -- by no means is it true that the only way to build a good program is to exclusively recruit high school kids. Within our own league, ISU is the obvious example, but there are impact transfers all over the country. It is ridiculously simplistic, and wrong, to act like there is only one way to approach recruiting. Just like it is overly simplistic for people to act like the only way to successfully coach is to be a fiery disciplinarian. People see OU struggle and conclude that if only Lon yelled, cussed, etc., things would be different. Well, how do those people account for Virginia's success? I don't see Tony Bennett show much emotion or rant and rave, yet his team plays as hard as any team in the nation. Recruiting and coaching are no different than anything else in life -- there are a lot of different styles and approaches that can work.

And how is WSU a bad example? It perfectly illustrates why you don't want to end up with more than half your roster in the same class. Their previous teams all had a mix of guys in different classes, including some key JUCO and transfers. That helped them sustain success, because they rarely graduated more than 2 or 3 guys in a given year. But last year, they lost the vast majority of the team in the same graduating class, and that has led directly to their first bad year in a decade.
 
Lon and staff are responsible for the state of the program. Period. Not sure how that's even up for debate.


I have no idea if you are correct about guys not putting in the work, but that's an easy problem to solve. If you aren't putting in the work, you don't play. Guys will either start working, or get gone in a hurry. Again, this is on Lon. It's his responsibility to vet recruits for their attitude and work ethic. Nothing is perfect, but if you're consistently bringing in guys with issues, that shows a lack of quality control. If he is enabling a culture where kids aren't required to put in the work, that's on him as well.

As for the composition of the roster, again, that's on Lon. In the past 4 recruiting classes, he's taken 7 very iffy JUCOs and grad transfers. This program would be in much better shape if those had gone to high school kids. It's mind-boggling that there was one high school kid in the 2018 class. Instead we ended up with a project JUCO, two fringe grad transfers and a transfer. This stuff snowballs, too. Part of the reason we had to take those guys is because we didn't initially have spots to recruit into, because we gave guy like Ty Lazenby a scholarship. So he took a spot from a high school kid in two straight classes, and contributed nothing.

Perfect
 
Have you looked at the rosters of teams around the country? Many (if not most), including top 25-ish programs, have at least one transfer playing prominent roles. You take this black and white approach that is clearly not accurate -- by no means is it true that the only way to build a good program is to exclusively recruit high school kids. Within our own league, ISU is the obvious example, but there are impact transfers all over the country. It is ridiculously simplistic, and wrong, to act like there is only one way to approach recruiting. Just like it is overly simplistic for people to act like the only way to successfully coach is to be a fiery disciplinarian. People see OU struggle and conclude that if only Lon yelled, cussed, etc., things would be different. Well, how do those people account for Virginia's success? I don't see Tony Bennett show much emotion or rant and rave, yet his team plays as hard as any team in the nation. Recruiting and coaching are no different than anything else in life -- there are a lot of different styles and approaches that can work.

And how is WSU a bad example? It perfectly illustrates why you don't want to end up with more than half your roster in the same class. Their previous teams all had a mix of guys in different classes, including some key JUCO and transfers. That helped them sustain success, because they rarely graduated more than 2 or 3 guys in a given year. But last year, they lost the vast majority of the team in the same graduating class, and that has led directly to their first bad year in a decade.


Division 1 transfers of guys who have proven they can play at a high level are great. Every program accepts those guys. Grad transfers can supplement an already strong roster, but should be used sparingly. I'm out on JUCOs. None of the programs that OU should be emulating are taking JUCOs, and I think the talent level and competition are so poor that evaluation is impossible.


Wichita State would be fine this year if they hadn't lost Shamet and Reaves, who weren't seniors. So no, you can't afford to lose a large senior class if you are also going to lose your two best returning underclassmen.
 
It's mind-boggling that there was one high school kid in the 2018 class. Instead we ended up with a project JUCO, two fringe grad transfers and a transfer. This stuff snowballs, too. Part of the reason we had to take those guys is because we didn't initially have spots to recruit into, because we gave guy like Ty Lazenby a scholarship. So he took a spot from a high school kid in two straight classes, and contributed nothing.

Exactly. If you are going to chase grad transfers because you don't want a rebuild season, you better get it right and win. Because if you don't, you are going to be young and inexperienced the next season, and you'll have nothing to show for it.

I'd have rather found another HS guard or two, rolled with them and JB more, and taken our lumps this year (like we already are).
 
Back
Top