I'm beginning to think we need to

[SoonerinNC]

Sherri is never going to have anywhere near 15 scholarship players. She doesn't like to go deep and players are not going to stay around for mopup minutes.

 

[35TangoTango]

If you take the time to look around women's basketball, you'll find that almost nobody keeps a full roster, and few coaches go deep into their bench especially during conference season. Some people who don't look at other teams try to make the case that Sherri's practices are somehow different than the norm, but that dog just won't hunt.
Our problem this year was not that the bench was too short, but that we lost some particular talents that couldn't be replaced by those on the bench. Kansas State and West Viginia and to some degree Kansas had the same problem as us, but didn't overcome it nearly so well.

 

[tycat947]

From the AP Top 10: Number of players on roster WITHOUT taking into effect any injuries. Don't know if any walkons are included in these.

Baylor - 13
Notre Dame - 11
UConn - 11
Stanford - 15
Duke - 13
California - 13
Kentucky - 13
Penn State - 11
Texas A&M - 14
Tennessee - 11

Average 12.5 per team in Top 10. Only ONE team has a full roster of 15.

Big 12 - Does NOT take into account injuries but does include walkons which are showing on rosters.

OU - 14 (includes 2 walkons)
Baylor - 13
Iowa State - 11
Kansas - 10
Kansas State - 13 (includes 2 walkons)
Oklahoma State - 10
TCU - 12
Texas - 13 (includes 1 walkon)
Texas Tech - 13
West Virginia - 13

Average 12.2 (including walkons that I know of!), 11.7 (excluding walkons).

Only 1 of the 19 teams above have a full roster of 15 (Stanford) and only 1 other team has 14 on their roster.

 

[Soonerbay]

If you take the time to look around women's basketball, you'll find that almost nobody keeps a full roster, and few coaches go deep into their bench especially during conference season. Some people who don't look at other teams try to make the case that Sherri's practices are somehow different than the norm, but that dog just won't hunt.
Our problem this year was not that the bench was too short, but that we lost some particular talents that couldn't be replaced by those on the bench. Kansas State and West Viginia and to some degree Kansas had the same problem as us, but didn't overcome it nearly so well.

True...UCONN (11), Notre Dame (11), Tennessee (11), Stanford (15). Stanford is the anomaly because they CAN recruit student-athletes that may not be high school All American level players to fill the roster reserve seats and will not leave because of playing time. It gives them very good players that are willing to learn and develop a better skill set and when needed they are there and ready to go. Clearly Stanford can afford to carry 15. Furthermore, they have an admissions advocate in the coaching staff. Their chances of getting in through the "normal" admissions process is slim to none. The 4 programs have in common...Final Fours and at least 1 national championship.

OU needs to (well, should have) recruit similar to Stanford; fill the bench with 15 (OU can afford it...all scholarships are endowed...unless they invested at the casino during the dead recruiting period...just kidding), get at least two top 20 players each year with one in the top 10, balance the classes where you have at least 2 seniors every year (experience with the big dance is necessary), and players 9-15 are solid and understand that they are going to have to work their butts off for a starting position. Those players should also be committed to OU the UNIVERSITY for whatever reason...players that won't leave (who leaves Stanford?)...rarely if ever.

Bottom line and again...OU has dropped the recruiting ball the last 6-7 years. They did not build on the 2005, 2006 years and now we're paying for it. The 2002 FF was the catapult to get the players in 2005 (the twins) and now...all of those with FF experience are gone after this year. Heck, OU was only 2nd to UCONN on ESPN during those years. The national exposure was over the top!

Yes, I know..all the warm and fuzzy fans..."We have this many Big 12's and we have this many years finishing in the top 3 in the conference, and we have two FF's, and SC is personable and loves her players, they read books together and they are family..." All of that is fine, and I believe you can have that AND win a NC. But for us fans that want a competitive team going for the NC year in and year out...and actually WIN a NC...it's hard to swallow what has happened to the program. Heck, even with family, there comes a time where the kids must grow up and start contributing rather than thinking they can always sit on their butts and have a story read to them. Growth and development as young women by SC is nice and dandy and really important, but it's also important to develop as players ON the court which translates into development ON the job in the future. Corporate America expects a NC (PROFITS) EVERY YEAR! And that is what college is all about right?

Now, we have to start all over again...hopefully.

For starters...my wish... Get an Assistant that can RECRUIT! Whatshername from San Josey State ain't getting it. What is AO doing? She seems to have an outgoing personality, understands what it takes. Heck hire her as the Director of Operations or some "Special Assistant" (see Baylor...about 8 deep...they have as many on the coaching staff as OU has in available players) since you are not having camps anymore...workload is cut by a third.

Recruiting is not Rocket Science and neither do you have to re-invent the wheel.

PS...Who wants a program like KSU, KU and WVU? NC=Goose Egg, Zilch, Nada, ZERO

 

[SoonerNorm]

OU will never sign 2 top 20 players per year...just won't happen. I would be thrilled if we just had 2 top 20 players on the roster at any given time. Everyone knew Courtney was going to be a great player and she didn't disappoint. We heard really good things about DRob before she got here and she was all that and more. I think everyone had very high expectations for Aaryn and she has certainly not disappointed. We are getting good supporting players but we need two great players on the team to have a chance for a national championship. I would say one of those great players should be an inside player but that is probably not mandatory, more of a personal preference.

 

[jerry]

Watched Nd and UConn last night for 2nd time. There players are just far more athletic than ours and with saying that UConn is less athletic this year than they have been in the past. Baylor is the same way and if you ever watch Kentucky they are too.

 

[Soonerbay]

OU will never sign 2 top 20 players per year...just won't happen. I would be thrilled if we just had 2 top 20 players on the roster at any given time. Everyone knew Courtney was going to be a great player and she didn't disappoint. We heard really good things about DRob before she got here and she was all that and more. I think everyone had very high expectations for Aaryn and she has certainly not disappointed. We are getting good supporting players but we need two great players on the team to have a chance for a national championship. I would say one of those great players should be an inside player but that is probably not mandatory, more of a personal preference.

If they did it once, they can do it again. If other programs that win NC's are doing it, then why not OU? And IF we want a NC (well, not everyone wants one) and SC claims that is the goal every year...then we need to CONSISTENTLY recruit players in the top 20. If we want to only stay warm and fuzzy and sing Kumbaya then the program is on track.

 

[SoonerNorm]

If they did it once, they can do it again. If other programs that win NC's are doing it, then why not OU? And IF we want a NC (well, not everyone wants one) and SC claims that is the goal every year...then we need to CONSISTENTLY recruit players in the top 20. If we want to only stay warm and fuzzy and sing Kumbaya then the program is on track.

We just do not recruit on that level, never have and never will unless something changes, such as adding a great recruiter or two to the staff. I don't even think you have to recruit on that level every year. As I said, if we had 2 great players on the team (one could be a senior and the other a sophomore), we could still win a NC. Look at Baylor. They have 2 great players surrounded by a really good supporting cast. Now, I do agree their supporting cast is better than ours, they still only have 2 great players on that team which will likely win another NC.

I completely agree with you that our goal should be to win a NC and I'm glad when I hear Sherri say the same thing because I want to know that she sees that goal as a top priority.

 

[Soonerbay]

Watched Nd and UConn last night for 2nd time. There players are just far more athletic than ours and with saying that UConn is less athletic this year than they have been in the past. Baylor is the same way and if you ever watch Kentucky they are too.

Not only does the team need athletic players, but a strong skill set amongst other things. It requires balance of enough of many things...mental toughness, skill, athleticism, physical strength, tenacity, attitude, accountability... and COACHES that recruit players with these attributes and understand how to blend all of it into a successful program. There are just a few coaches (considering the hundreds in NCAA Div I) that REALLY do their jobs on a consistent basis...recruit, make sure players are graduating, win a NC (that is the goal, right?), teach fundamentals, coach on the bench, build relationship, manage the budget, attend the meetings, join associations, go to coaching clinics (coaches need development and need to be lifelong learners as well), utilize resources, follow the NCAA rules (hehe), raise funds, media relations, etc, etc.

And we see the result in the same programs successful year after year after year with a few other new comers jumping in and out, in and out...no consistency!

 

[Soonerbay]

We just do not recruit on that level, never have and never will unless something changes, such as adding a great recruiter or two to the staff. I don't even think you have to recruit on that level every year. As I said, if we had 2 great players on the team (one could be a senior and the other a sophomore), we could still win a NC. Look at Baylor. They have 2 great players surrounded by a really good supporting cast. Now, I do agree their supporting cast is better than ours, they still only have 2 great players on that team which will likely win another NC.

I completely agree with you that our goal should be to win a NC and I'm glad when I hear Sherri say the same thing because I want to know that she sees that goal as a top priority.

Norm, if one wants the NC...you have to get those top two players every year or at least AVERAGE two a year. Balance and consistency is key. There were years when UCONN, TENN were getting 3-5! But you can't do what we've been doing and expect something different...insanity.

Look at the programs that have won NC's the past 10 years. The wheel does not have to be reinvented, but the program must have air, rim and some great tread.

And it has been done at OU...2005 (AP, CP both in top 10 and top 5 on some sites) and 2006 AT and AO. The following year we lucked up on DR, but we should have had another two top 20 in the 2008 class.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Norm, if one wants the NC...you have to get those top two players every year or at least AVERAGE two a year. Balance and consistency is key. There were years when UCONN, TENN were getting 3-5! But you can't do what we've been doing and expect something different...insanity.

Look at the programs that have won NC's the past 10 years. The wheel does not have to be reinvented, but the program must have air, rim and some great tread.

I disagree. You have to have 2 great players (WNBA type players) on the court at the same time to get you a national championship. That's all Baylor had last year and that's all they have this year. They are not recruiting two top 20 players per year. You may say they will have to rebuild after this year and I say so what, give me back to back NC's every 5 or 6 years and I'm happy happy happy.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Norm, if one wants the NC...you have to get those top two players every year or at least AVERAGE two a year. Balance and consistency is key. There were years when UCONN, TENN were getting 3-5! But you can't do what we've been doing and expect something different...insanity.

Look at the programs that have won NC's the past 10 years. The wheel does not have to be reinvented, but the program must have air, rim and some great tread.

And it has been done at OU...2005 (AP, CP both in top 10 and top 5 on some sites) and 2006 AT and AO. The following year we lucked up on DR, but we should have had another two top 20 in the 2008 class.

Neither AP or AO were great players. They both turned into really good college players but not great. I'm talking about WNBA type players. Even though Courtney didn't make it in the WNBA, she was a great college player and could have played in the WNBA if she would have gotten in top condition.

 

[Soonerbay]

Neither AP or AO were great players. They both turned into really good college players but not great. I'm talking about WNBA type players. Even though Courtney didn't make it in the WNBA, she was a great college player and could have played in the WNBA if she would have gotten in top condition.

Norm, we'll agree to disagree relative to opinion. Don't get me started with the talent that OU had but never developed and/or chose to go with "SENIORS" rather than ability and a better match up versus Stanford in San Antonio amongst other coaching decisions that just didn't make sense. I was at the game and it was one of the poorest coaching moves in history.

But fact? Was CP not with ATL and Tulsa of the WNBA last season and just signed again with Tulsa. AND she's putting it down in Europe much like she did in college against the top WNBA players and top Europe players. WNBA coaches have chosen not to have the ball go through CP like SC did and Europe is currently doing. And then people wonder why the WNBA is not successful. By the way...CP is outscoring the 2009 #1 WNBA draft pick in McCoughtry. Both play in same league in Turkey. AP has been a Euro Player of the Year and currently a top producer in Turkey. From what I understand AP only plays half the season because she has other business ventures. Go figure.

 

[Sooner Suzie]

Courtney currently is on the roster of the Tulsa Shock. Both CP & AP have also played in Europe where the salaries are higher than here in the USA.

 

[SoonerNorm]

I would love for CP to stay in the WNBA but so far she hasn't stayed with any one team long and I'm convinced it is because of a lack of speed and quickness due to lack of conditioning.

I'm glad some of our players get to go overseas and earn money but those leagues are not the same as the WNBA. There are several players who can make rosters in Europe who will never get signed by a WNBA team.

 

[Soonerbay]

Neither AP or AO were great players. They both turned into really good college players but not great. I'm talking about WNBA type players. Even though Courtney didn't make it in the WNBA, she was a great college player and could have played in the WNBA if she would have gotten in top condition.

And I might add...since you want to ride the "if she would have gotten in top condition" float in the parade of not thoroughly thought through opinion...

Her conditioning was good enough for SC to play the heck outta her for most minutes of every game because it worked. She currently does the same in Europe. She gets the job done much like the Refrigerator Perry did for the Chicago Bears. Coach Ditka knew how to take his strength and girth to use it to the teams advantage. Did Perry's body look like Ray Lewis'? Not hardly but they both got the job done with what they were working with. The only difference is they won Super Bowls...championships. The same could be said about Charles Barkley. OU didn't when the NC when they had CP...winning the top trophy stopped for her at OU. She has them from AAU, club ball, high school, middle school and elementary. And from what I understand, she played mostly point guard in middle school. She clearly had a smart coach in middle school.

Unfortunately, too many people (and it appears you might be in that group as well) agree with what society says a body should look like to be acceptable regardless of whether they are productive or not. I'll take CP and her productivity (coached by someone with sense enough to know how to benefit the team with it) over a player with the body of Miss Universe but lacks competitiveness, skill and accountability.

 

[Soonerbay]

I would love for CP to stay in the WNBA but so far she hasn't stayed with any one team long and I'm convinced it is because of a lack of speed and quickness due to lack of conditioning.

I'm glad some of our players get to go overseas and earn money but those leagues are not the same as the WNBA. There are several players who can make rosters in Europe who will never get signed by a WNBA team.

I will be the first to say that there is no better place to live than the US of A!!! At the same time, the WNBA is not all that. The reality is most players play there THEN go to their real jobs when the season is over. The WNBA is losing money hand over fist, they don't pay worth a darn, they just recently respected the players enough to activate their health benefits for the entire year rather than the few months they play, their marketing gurus are smoking something...amongst many problems. But somebody has to play and try to keep up an image for the WNBA/US women's pro league. They cannot give tickets away.

 

[SoonerNorm]

And I might add...since you want to ride the "if she would have gotten in top condition" float in the parade of not thoroughly thought through opinion...

Her conditioning was good enough for SC to play the heck outta her for most minutes of every game because it worked. She currently does the same in Europe. She gets the job done much like the Refrigerator Perry did for the Chicago Bears. Coach Ditka knew how to take his strength and girth to use it to the teams advantage. Did Perry's body look like Ray Lewis'? Not hardly but they both got the job done with what they were working with. The only difference is they won Super Bowls...championships. The same could be said about Charles Barkley. OU didn't when the NC when they had CP...winning the top trophy stopped for her at OU. She has them from AAU, club ball, high school, middle school and elementary. And from what I understand, she played mostly point guard in middle school. She clearly had a smart coach in middle school.

Unfortunately, too many people (and it appears you might be in that group as well) agree with what society says a body should look like to be acceptable regardless of whether they are productive or not. I'll take CP and her productivity (coached by someone with sense enough to know how to benefit the team with it) over a player with the body of Miss Universe but lacks competitiveness, skill and accountability.

Being great in college is not necessarily the same as being great in the pros. Josh Heupel is a perfect example of that. He did a great job at OU but wasn't up to par in the pros. I agree that Courtney was a great college player, there is no question about that.

If you don't think her size, lack of quickness and speed are her limitations in the WNBA, what do you think is?

 

[Soonerbay]

I disagree. You have to have 2 great players (WNBA type players) on the court at the same time to get you a national championship. That's all Baylor had last year and that's all they have this year. They are not recruiting two top 20 players per year. You may say they will have to rebuild after this year and I say so what, give me back to back NC's every 5 or 6 years and I'm happy happy happy.

They are AVERAGING the recruitment of at least 2 great players each year. And have you seen the high school profiles of their reserves? They are no joke...very solid for the programs from which they came. Our starters do not have the profiles of their reserves...on an average.

 

[SoonerNorm]

They are AVERAGING the recruitment of at least 2 great players each year. And have you seen the high school profiles of their reserves? They are no joke...very solid for the programs from which they came. Our starters do not have the profiles of their reserves...on an average.

Please list their "great" players for the last 4 years as I have not seen 2 per year that I would consider great.