I'm beginning to think we need to

[Soonerbay]

Being great in college is not necessarily the same as being great in the pros. Josh Heupel is a perfect example of that. He did a great job at OU but wasn't up to par in the pros. I agree that Courtney was a great college player, there is no question about that.

If you don't think her size, lack of quickness and speed are her limitations in the WNBA, what do you think is?

Simply the fact that a WNBA team has not decided that a "Shaqetta" body type player is going to be their go to player! Heck, Shaq was slow, couldn't buy a free throw with all is multi millions of dollars and was in shape maybe by the playoffs. But we want our women's league to look like Halle Berry and play like Michael Jordan. Ain't gonna happen!

Let's be real Norm...just for a minute. The WNBA CANNOT AFFORD to have CP types doing well. Their hands are full with their number ONE image problem; many if not most of the players are of the lesbian community (good, bad, indifferent...it is what it is) and half of them dress and carry themselves on a more masculine level. They have to put their efforts into improving the bigger image problem.

 

[Soonerbay]

Please list their "great" players for the last 4 years as I have not seen 2 per year that I would consider great.

Hold on...you'll see them next year and the year after and the year after that...as soon as all the GREAT starters leave. Mulkey has figured out how to recruit with a balanced perspective much like UCONN and other consistently successful programs.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Simply the fact that a WNBA team has not decided that a "Shaqetta" body type player is going to be their go to player! Heck, Shaq was slow, couldn't buy a free throw with all is multi millions of dollars and was in shape maybe by the playoffs. But we want our women's league to look like Halle Berry and play like Michael Jordan. Ain't gonna happen!

Let's be real Norm...just for a minute. The WNBA CANNOT AFFORD to have CP types doing well. Their hands are full with their number ONE image problem; many if not most of the players are of the lesbian community (good, bad, indifferent...it is what it is) and half of them dress and carry themselves on a more masculine level. They have to put their efforts into improving the bigger image problem.

That's completely non-sensical. If she could play well at that level, she would be on a roster and stay there. Her weight, in the area of 250 pounds, is a hinderance to her playing her best basketball. She doesn't have to look like Halle Berry but she needs to lose some weight. JMO

 

[Soonerbay]

That's completely non-sensical. If she could play well at that level, she would be on a roster and stay there. Her weight, in the area of 250 pounds, is a hinderance to her playing her best basketball. She doesn't have to look like Halle Berry but she needs to lose some weight. JMO

Again, we'll agree to disagree. Her best in college was better than what most have produced in college...see the NCAA records. Including most of those playing in the WNBA. Keep your PollyAnna glasses snug to your face and keep buying into societies' stereotypes. And yes it's just your opinion and mine belongs to me. But the facts never lie.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Again, we'll agree to disagree. Her best in college was better than what most have produced in college...see the NCAA records. Including most of those playing in the WNBA. Keep your PollyAnna glasses snug to your face and keep buying into societies' stereotypes. And yes it's just your opinion and mine belongs to me. But the facts never lie.

There can be no facts to prove either opinion unless/until she actually loses weight. Only then could we truly know whether she would be a better player or not.

We know it worked for her sister but that does not prove it would work for CP.

 

[KCRuf/Nek]

That's completely non-sensical. If she could play well at that level, she would be on a roster and stay there. Her weight, in the area of 250 pounds, is a hinderance to her playing her best basketball. She doesn't have to look like Halle Berry but she needs to lose some weight. JMO

Again, we'll agree to disagree. Her best in college was better than what most have produced in college...see the NCAA records. Including most of those playing in the WNBA. Keep your PollyAnna glasses snug to your face and keep buying into societies' stereotypes. And yes it's just your opinion and mine belongs to me. But the facts never lie.

I had always hoped Sherri would have made her get in shape. We saw the difference that it made with Ashley her senior year - Abi too. The facts are if you watch a WNBA game where Courtney does get in she's too slow, can't get open, and can't keep up with the pace of the game. It just amazes me the number of people that continually act like not being in shape doesn't hurt an athlete. Courtney and Candice Parker are both 6'4" and probably 100 pounds apart. We see the direction their careers have taken.

Who cares what Courtney's stats were whenever? Think what they would have been had she been in shape. Yes she did some amazing things but what if. Take Jordan and LaBron and put a 50+ pound vest on them and see the difference in their games. The fact is she can't compete at the weight she is now. Look no farther than her father. He ate himself of of the NFL and possibly the HOF. All the players don't have to look like Barbie but they need to be in reasonable shape. You bring up Shaq. His conditioning became an issue later in his career and it hurt him. When he was unstoppable he was in good shape.

I'd love to see Courtney get in shape so she can play but it's more important she do so so she can live a long and healthy life.

 

[KCRuf/Nek]

There can be no facts to prove either opinion unless/until she actually loses weight. Only then could we truly know whether she would be a better player or not.

We know it worked for her sister but that does not prove it would work for CP.

I think we all know the answer to that. Name an athlete that hasn't benefited from getting in shape.

 

[Soonerbay]

There can be no facts to prove either opinion unless/until she actually loses weight. Only then could we truly know whether she would be a better player or not.

We know it worked for her sister but that does not prove it would work for CP.

Not true...your statement in its entirety is not true.

1. It's a fact that CP excelled beyond other college players while she was the weight she was. Her NCAA records stand for themselves. She continues to produce at the same level...averaging a double-double in Europe against WNBA and European players.

2. We really never got to see AP on a consistent basis in college to know. What I do know is what she was doing her senior year in college is basically what she was doing her senior year in high school.

 

[SoonerNorm]

I think we all know the answer to that. Name an athlete that hasn't benefited from getting in shape.

I agree with you. For anyone to say that conditioning is not affecting Courtney's game, they are not being realistic.

Blake Griffin used to go (may still do so) to California to train with a guy who is well known for his exceptionally tough training program. I doubt Blake was going just because he liked the weather.

 

[KCRuf/Nek]

I agree with you. For anyone to say that conditioning is not affecting Courtney's game, they are not being realistic.

Blake Griffin used to go (may still do so) to California to train with a guy who is well known for his exceptionally tough training program. I doubt Blake was going just because he liked the weather.

I always look at baseball and football. You can't tell me that Prince Fielder wouldn't be better if he lost what, 50-75 pounds. Last year Miggy lost 30 pounds before the season and look how that worked out. As good as Sabathia pitches he'd be much better if he trimmed down. And although football is a big mans game I can't believe those line with those big stomachs wouldn't benefit from losing them.

Just like with Blake. He's not only doing that for his oncourt play but for stamina as well as avoiding injuries. I can attest to this as someone whose weight has been up and down in his life. It makes a big difference both mentally and physically.

 

[Soonerbay]

I had always hoped Sherri would have made her get in shape. We saw the difference that it made with Ashley her senior year - Abi too. The facts are if you watch a WNBA game where Courtney does get in she's too slow, can't get open, and can't keep up with the pace of the game. It just amazes me the number of people that continually act like not being in shape doesn't hurt an athlete. Courtney and Candice Parker are both 6'4" and probably 100 pounds apart. We see the direction their careers have taken.

Who cares what Courtney's stats were whenever? Think what they would have been had she been in shape. Yes she did some amazing things but what if. Take Jordan and LaBron and put a 50+ pound vest on them and see the difference in their games. The fact is she can't compete at the weight she is now. Look no farther than her father. He ate himself of of the NFL and possibly the HOF. All the players don't have to look like Barbie but they need to be in reasonable shape. You bring up Shaq. His conditioning became an issue later in his career and it hurt him. When he was unstoppable he was in good shape.

I'd love to see Courtney get in shape so she can play but it's more important she do so so she can live a long and healthy life.

How about accepting people as they are and not adding the woulda shoulda coulda...especially when they've already done a great job. Do you really think CP was going to get a significantly more amount of points, rebounds and blocks in the same season as she did...twice? She can only be only one place on the court at a time. If 100 pounds difference was the key, how come CParker didn't do it?

Learn to accept people as they are, their own individuality, their own strengths and not compared to what someone did, especially because of size. Just wrong on a number of levels. I could see your point if CP had not been very successful and productive. But that's not the case.

It's like saying, "Michael Jordan could be so much better of a player if he was not so arrogant, egotistical and down right lacking morals." Well, maybe but we can't take anything away from what he already did which was a mighty fine job.

In addition, AP clearly lost some weight her senior year, but I don't believe it made her a better player. She was going to play either way, trust me. The same for AO. Who else had they recruited? They were now the upper class personnel...SC's guideline for who gets to play...unless you're CP and leaps and bounds better than the next person at that position. AP lost weight, but I think she was in better conditioning and shape AFTER OU, but it didn't make a difference for the beloved WNBA. If I can find the picture I saw on one of her friends FB page and can download it, I will share. A few months after leaving OU (she was with the Sparks, I believe), she was the best I've ever seen her look from a physical and athletic build point of view. Again...a few months after OU. It was so important to OU's coaching staff, how come they didn't provide the instruction, resources and guidelines for everyone to be in the best physical and conditioning position?

 

[35TangoTango]

In addition, AP clearly lost some weight her senior year, but I don't believe it made her a better player.

In holding that opinion, you are clearly a minority of one.

 

[KCRuf/Nek]

Obviously we have different views and opinions. I talk plenty about the here and now. If she was dominating Europe like you say then why does she look like a plowhorse when she gets on the court in the WNBA? And again, sorry to delve into the past, but if you really believe being in shape wouldn't have made a difference then you are mistaken.

If 100 pounds difference was the key, how come CParker didn't do it?

You mean Candice Parker the..

Two time Wooden winner
Naismith winner
Two time NC
1st player selected in 2008 WNBA draft
WNBA ROY/MVP in the same year
AP Female Athlete of the Year

Yeah, Parker didn't do much.

 

[Soonerbay]

Obviously we have different views and opinions. I talk plenty about the here and now. If she was dominating Europe like you say then why does she look like a plowhorse when she gets on the court in the WNBA? And again, sorry to delve into the past, but if you really believe being in shape wouldn't have made a difference then you are mistaken.



You mean Candice Parker the..

Two time Wooden winner
Naismith winner
Two time NC
1st player selected in 2008 WNBA draft
WNBA ROY/MVP in the same year
AP Female Athlete of the Year

Yeah, Parker didn't do much.

Never said that. And CParis' resume ain't looking too bad either as the first player to be a unanimous AA for 4 years, followed by Maya Moore. So, they all have contributed to the game significantly. Just don't act like CParis didn't based on her body type. A plow horse? Really! You're funny and ridiculous. And what was your 40 speed in college? If you are not Flo Jo (may she RIP) reincarnated...you should stop.

 

[Soonerbay]

In holding that opinion, you are clearly a minority of one.

Only a minority amongst the Polly Anna Rose Colored Glass wearing fans on this forum. We've been sitting in the stands during this playoff season in CA and we are still discussing, "How did OU not win a NC with BOTH twins?" We saw the twins before OU...their skill set decreased while at OU. Especially AP. She just needed a coach that believed in her over choosing to play the upper class when it was clearly not a good match up for OU.

 

[35TangoTango]

Never said that. And CParis' resume ain't looking too bad either as the first player to be a unanimous AA for 4 years, followed by Maya Moore. So, they all have contributed to the game significantly. Just don't act like CParis didn't based on her body type. A plow horse? Really! You're funny and ridiculous. And what was your 40 speed in college? If you are not Flo Jo (may she RIP) reincarnated...you should stop.

Soonerbay - This time you're arguing that Courtney was the best she could be, and that losing weight or getting in better shape would not have improved her game. In previous posts, you have castigated Coach Coale for not forcing Courtney to get in better shape. Even with your silly brand of California logic, you can't have it both ways.

 

[Soonerbay]

Soonerbay - This time you're arguing that Courtney was the best she could be, and that losing weight or getting in better shape would not have improved her game. In previous posts, you have castigated Coach Coale for not forcing Courtney to get in better shape. Even with your silly brand of California logic, you can't have it both ways.

Not true 35TT! What I am basically saying is, "How much BETTER, or how much MORE could she have contributed to OU's program each season if she was smaller?" Ok, do you think she could have gotten 3500 points, 2600 rebounds and 100 more blocked shots for two years in a row? Maybe should have gotten a double double for EVERY GAME she played. Who has come close to doing what she does best? At OU? Anywhere in WBB? When it comes to HER style of play, no one does it better. Now if a coach doesn't want your traditional, old school type Center...CP's not for you. But that should not devalue her skill set and accomplishments because she doesn't fit the opinion of some that she should weigh less. There is no way she could have played as much as she did and produced at the level she did...and not have been in some kinda' shape. Could it be better? Of course, but I don't think her productivity was going to increase by even 5%. Well, I guess she could have had a triple double for every game. :facepalm

And as for SC...I must assume she didn't have a problem, otherwise, surely she would have benched her. Right?

 

[Soonerbay]

I had always hoped Sherri would have made her get in shape. We saw the difference that it made with Ashley her senior year - Abi too. The facts are if you watch a WNBA game where Courtney does get in she's too slow, can't get open, and can't keep up with the pace of the game. It just amazes me the number of people that continually act like not being in shape doesn't hurt an athlete. Courtney and Candice Parker are both 6'4" and probably 100 pounds apart. We see the direction their careers have taken.

Who cares what Courtney's stats were whenever? Think what they would have been had she been in shape. Yes she did some amazing things but what if. Take Jordan and LaBron and put a 50+ pound vest on them and see the difference in their games. The fact is she can't compete at the weight she is now. Look no farther than her father. He ate himself of of the NFL and possibly the HOF. All the players don't have to look like Barbie but they need to be in reasonable shape. You bring up Shaq. His conditioning became an issue later in his career and it hurt him. When he was unstoppable he was in good shape.

I'd love to see Courtney get in shape so she can play but it's more important she do so so she can live a long and healthy life.

AP in May 2009...she never looked like this at OU, but managed to get in this kind of shape a few months after leaving? Who is in charge at OU...especially weight lifting and conditioning?

Note: I'm no tech pro, so I hope the picture is attached.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Not true 35TT! What I am basically saying is, "How much BETTER, or how much MORE could she have contributed to OU's program each season if she was smaller?" Ok, do you think she could have gotten 3500 points, 2600 rebounds and 100 more blocked shots for two years in a row? Maybe should have gotten a double double for EVERY GAME she played. Who has come close to doing what she does best? At OU? Anywhere in WBB? When it comes to HER style of play, no one does it better. Now if a coach doesn't want your traditional, old school type Center...CP's not for you. But that should not devalue her skill set and accomplishments because she doesn't fit the opinion of some that she should weigh less. There is no way she could have played as much as she did and produced at the level she did...and not have been in some kinda' shape. Could it be better? Of course, but I don't think her productivity was going to increase by even 5%. Well, I guess she could have had a triple double for every game. :facepalm

And as for SC...I must assume she didn't have a problem, otherwise, surely she would have benched her. Right?

Let's see, if Blake Griffin gained 50 pounds, by your logic he would still be just as good as he is now. You are probably the only person in America who could come up with that conclusion.

If CP was in the neighborhood of 215 lbs, I would think she would be a minimum of 20% more productive on offense and even more so on the defensive end.

Speaking of Candice Parker, add 35 lbs to her frame and she wouldn't be in the WNBA either.

 

[SoonerNorm]

AP in May 2009...she never looked like this at OU, but managed to get in this kind of shape a few months after leaving? Who is in charge at OU...especially weight lifting and conditioning?

Note: I'm no tech pro, so I hope the picture is attached.

Why are you bringing this up...don't you know that conditioning does not make a player better??