I'm beginning to think we need to

[Soonerbay]

Let's see, if Blake Griffin gained 50 pounds, by your logic he would still be just as good as he is now. You are probably the only person in America who could come up with that conclusion.

If CP was in the neighborhood of 215 lbs, I would think she would be a minimum of 20% more productive on offense and even more so on the defensive end.

Speaking of Candice Parker, add 35 lbs to her frame and she wouldn't be in the WNBA either.

I'm not going to attempt to debate apples to oranges let alone guacamole to caviar. What I do believe about CParis is that a part of what she does is based on her size and strength. Can she just be the best CParis that she can be or does she have to look like somebody else, or lose weight? Was what she did not enough productivity? I think CParker does a great job at what she does based on who she is...she has been HERSELF all of her life, believe it or not. CParis has been successful as well and plenty productive doing what she has done as long as she has been HERSELF. How come they can't be two separate individuals? I'm sure AP and CP never appreciate being compared to one another as twins, let alone Parker or Griffin, anymore than Griffin would appreciate being compared to the next player. How about they all bring something to the game as individuals giving to their teams to the best of THEIR abilities.

 

[Soonerbay]

Why are you bringing this up...don't you know that conditioning does not make a player better??

Just a little proof to show that what you guys thought was AP in shape was not really in shape...NOT that it had anything to do with her skill set. I'll continue to entertain you guys during March.

 

[SoonerNorm]

I'm not going to attempt to debate apples to oranges let alone guacamole to caviar. What I do believe about CParis is that a part of what she does is based on her size and strength. Can she just be the best CParis that she can be or does she have to look like somebody else, or lose weight? Was what she did not enough productivity? I think CParker does a great job at what she does based on who she is...she has been HERSELF all of her life, believe it or not. CParis has been successful as well and plenty productive doing what she has done as long as she has been HERSELF. How come they can't be two separate individuals? I'm sure AP and CP never appreciate being compared to one another as twins, let alone Parker or Griffin, anymore than Griffin would appreciate being compared to the next player. How about they all bring something to the game as individuals giving to their teams to the best of THEIR abilities.

Hahaha, not apples and oranges at all...my examples were exactly on target.

You think it's okay to blast Sherri (who BTW has been to 3 final fours) every time you drop by but you get extremely defensive if someone points out where CP could improve. The truth is, there isn't a human alive who can't improve.

 

[Soonerbay]

Hahaha, not apples and oranges at all...my examples were exactly on target.

You think it's okay to blast Sherri (who BTW has been to 3 final fours) every time you drop by but you get extremely defensive if someone points out where CP could improve. The truth is, there isn't a human alive who can't improve.

Not true. We all can improve in many areas of our lives...and I've said that plenty of times...but to say that CP could improve if she had lost weight has a tone of unappreciative. What more could she have done? Would you and others be happy if she had scored more points? More rebounds? More double doubles? And then to add it under the banner of IF she was in better shape...all that claim that should be ashamed.

 

[BlackwellSooner]

And speaking of conditioning: All we have to do is to look at perhaps the greatest talent that Barry Switzer ever had to see what might have been with Courtney.

Marcus Dupree was, even though he was carrying about 20-25 pounds too much weight, an absolute freak of a running back.
But because he was carrying too much weight, and because he didn't always warm up and stretch like he should have, he had conditioning and hamstring issues.
Then, of course, there is the athleticism from the neck up. Regardless of how much God-given talent that an athlete has, if he/she doesn't have their head right, it's a waste.

By the same token, CP, despite carrying about 25 too many pounds, was a dominant inside player for us. As good as she was, she was not as much of a difference-maker as Brittney Griner. Had Courtney played at her ideal weight, she could have been a huge difference-maker - - she could have been a shot-blocker nearly on the same level as Griner, and I say nearly because she wasn't as tall.

These, of course, are only MY opinions, and others will differ.

 

[SoonerNorm]

And speaking of conditioning: All we have to do is to look at perhaps the greatest talent that Barry Switzer ever had to see what might have been with Courtney.

Marcus Dupree was, even though he was carrying about 20-25 pounds too much weight, an absolute freak of a running back.
But because he was carrying too much weight, and because he didn't always warm up and stretch like he should have, he had conditioning and hamstring issues.
Then, of course, there is the athleticism from the neck up. Regardless of how much God-given talent that an athlete has, if he/she doesn't have their head right, it's a waste.

By the same token, CP, despite carrying about 25 too many pounds, was a dominant inside player for us. As good as she was, she was not as much of a difference-maker as Brittney Griner. Had Courtney played at her ideal weight, she could have been a huge difference-maker - - she could have been a shot-blocker nearly on the same level as Griner, and I say nearly because she wasn't as tall.

These, of course, are only MY opinions, and others will differ.

We all remember when Switzer reamed Dupree for being out of shape. And, that was right after Dupree had something like 240 yards in the bowl game.

 

[Soonerbay]

And speaking of conditioning: All we have to do is to look at perhaps the greatest talent that Barry Switzer ever had to see what might have been with Courtney.

Marcus Dupree was, even though he was carrying about 20-25 pounds too much weight, an absolute freak of a running back.
But because he was carrying too much weight, and because he didn't always warm up and stretch like he should have, he had conditioning and hamstring issues.
Then, of course, there is the athleticism from the neck up. Regardless of how much God-given talent that an athlete has, if he/she doesn't have their head right, it's a waste.

By the same token, CP, despite carrying about 25 too many pounds, was a dominant inside player for us. As good as she was, she was not as much of a difference-maker as Brittney Griner. Had Courtney played at her ideal weight, she could have been a huge difference-maker - - she could have been a shot-blocker nearly on the same level as Griner, and I say nearly because she wasn't as tall.

These, of course, are only MY opinions, and others will differ.

BS...no pun intended... I find your opinion interesting as well. "Her ideal weight? Could have been a huge difference-maker?" Really?

I just have a different opinion. I choose to take what CP said in many articles and interviews...she was good with her body and image. Who am I to say what HER ideal weight might be? If she likes it, I love it! Might it be what YOU or I want for US? Maybe not, but who are WE to say what is best for HER? If SC didn't complain/bench her...then why should anyone else? SC didn't complain or bench her because she was productive...getting it done at an astounding rate.

I could see ones point if she:

1. Had numerous injuries...or any in this case. I don't know that she missed any games in high school, college or the pros due to injury. She seems to be playing every game in Turkey. She has not been injury prone...knock on wood! And she has played in Europe every year. I don't think she's complaining. Euros are converted to USD everyday.

2. She was not a "difference maker" at OU? Surely, you jest. SC should have had a tee shirt printed and wore it daily with "pick your poison" printed on it. She dared teams to double or triple team CP with the chance of leaving Higgins, Plumley or Hand open. She made a difference with her size and strength much like Griner does with her height. CP plays taller than what she is because she knows how to keep the ball up and used her size to wear down the taller player. No one can take anything away from Griner and neither should one from CP.

 

[BanjoCharley]

What have we done to anger the gods in heaven that brought Soonerbay back to the board?

 

[35TangoTango]

What have we done to anger the gods in heaven that brought Soonerbay back to the board?

Whatever it was, the only way to make her go away is to stop feeding the troll. Ignore her.

 

[Soonerbay]

What have we done to anger the gods in heaven that brought Soonerbay back to the board?

I never left. I believe this thread is relative to recruiting...one of my pet peeves re: the program.

 

[gosooner2]

Using Hoopgurlz (because you have to use something right or wrong)
Kornet #20
Manning #34
Aaryn #49
Williams #59
Griffin #80
Campbell #90
No other players were ranked in the top 100 including the three incoming. Durrett of course was a JC AA. The WBB team reminds me of another OU team that had lots of past and somewhat recent success that just fired 3 coaches and hired 3 new ones. I am not sure the three new ones are better "coaches" but apparently are much better "recruiters". The recruiting world in all sports has changed and not for the better. I am not sure the current OU WBB culture wants to "play" the way it is currently required to land a truly "elite" class on a consistent basis. If a player comes along that fits the "mold" (which we have discussed), and wants to be part of the family we will recruit them and if they happen to be a top 20 (like Kornet, although she has some work to do) so much the better. I do not think Duke and North Carolina have standards much different than ours (well maybe not NC), and they each landed not one or two but three top 20 players each! How did they do that? They are both great schools but 3! Perhaps our time will come. Perhaps not.

 

[Soonerbay]

Using Hoopgurlz (because you have to use something right or wrong)
Kornet #20
Manning #34
Aaryn #49
Williams #59
Griffin #80
Campbell #90
No other players were ranked in the top 100 including the three incoming. Durrett of course was a JC AA. The WBB team reminds me of another OU team that had lots of past and somewhat recent success that just fired 3 coaches and hired 3 new ones. I am not sure the three new ones are better "coaches" but apparently are much better "recruiters". The recruiting world in all sports has changed and not for the better. I am not sure the current OU WBB culture wants to "play" the way it is currently required to land a truly "elite" class on a consistent basis. If a player comes along that fits the "mold" (which we have discussed), and wants to be part of the family we will recruit them and if they happen to be a top 20 (like Kornet, although she has some work to do) so much the better. I do not think Duke and North Carolina have standards much different than ours (well maybe not NC), and they each landed not one or two but three top 20 players each! How did they do that? They are both great schools but 3! Perhaps our time will come. Perhaps not.

When I look at the recent years of recruiting, as you have posted, it turns my stomach. Now let me clear this up right now...each of the athletes mentioned in your post are more than likely great recruits for OU and have done a great job in their respective high schools on and off the court. But players like them alone do not possess what it takes to win a conference championship; let alone a NC. Along with them, you need another five that have been recruited over the years that were ranked in the top 20. And it can be done, but you have to make hay while the sun is shining. Well, it was shining at OU in 2002, and it was REALLY shining in 2006-2008 but the staff did not capitalize on it. OU's time did come. Will it come again? Not at the rate the staff is recruiting and developing players now. Heck, and they don't even have a summer camp!

The NCAA recruiting guidelines are the same for all Div I programs. Do they all abide by the rules? No and I'd venture to say that OU WBB has probably dropped the ball and goofed a few times as well as most programs; self reported or not. But that's when the powers that be have to keep abreast of how the business is run these days...developing a brand, marketing your program (CAMPS!!!!), tv exposure and WINNING...within the rules! I just do not understand how a program like OU WBB cannot do these things then claim to want to win a NC. Baffles me! Others are doing it on a consistent basis by selling what attributes they have. OU could (or could have) done the same. They are just going to have to do something to get at least 1 top 10 player for a few years and trying (this time) to build on it. But if you keep doing what you've always done and expect a different result...good luck with that.

My personal opinion...OU WBB was not prepared for the "ESPN BIG TIME, SHOWTIME". It was like they won the lottery (2005...not even they believed they would get the Twins...then others followed because of the Twins...that's a huge part of how recruiting works...DOH!) and then blew all the money...didn't invest in what it would take to keep the program in the top 10 in the country. It was like giving a homeless person a Mercedes Benz and expecting them to maintain it and insure it, without providing a support system (assistant coaches and staff) that all bring something beneficial to the table especially RECRUITING. But even more so than that...and again...MPO...the program became more about SC than it did about the university's WBB program as a whole. Now, I don't think there is anything wrong with some human interest and creating a brand for ones self, but not at the expense of the program. Just seems to me that the program became more about her than the team as a whole. Sure it's great to be the WBCA President, speak at events, provide personal life story interviews, but only if it is going to keep the program growing. Otherwise, get your own reality show. And that has...in MPO...affected recruiting and ultimately the program as a whole. Too many student-athletes, donors and fans have invested in the program for it to be in the shape it is now. For those that are just happy that Norman has a place they can take little Judy on a Sunday afternoon and see student-athletes participate in extra curricular activity while excelling academically...then OU is doing a phenomenal job! Bravo!!! But for those of us who expect the best effort, an ongoing winning tradition at the highest level, competitive spirit and a never give up attitude year in and year out...understanding that a NC will not come every year, but at least one...given the resources available and want a NC, then it's sad...very sad.

PS...Piedmont H.S. (twins alma mater) has done what OU has not done...built a winning tradition. They had never won even a LEAGUE championship before the twins arrived and the school had girl's basketball since 1970 something. The twins arrived...lost in the regionals (final four) the first year and won two state championships (NC). They brought in folks/staff that knew what they were doing...former college and pro players, former college coaches (staff). They built a fan base from a community that did not previously care about girl's basketball (sound familiar). And they've continued to build on it. That's why they are one game away from another state championship right now. It's not rocket science.

 

[35TangoTango]

Haters gotta hate, and they gotta grab on to whatever phony logic helps them do it.

 

[tycat947]

Haters gotta hate, and they gotta grab on to whatever phony logic helps them do it.

:clap:clap:clap

 

[gosooner2]

Haters gotta hate, and they gotta grab on to whatever phony logic helps them do it.

If you are referring to me I was not hating on anything and resent your remark. However you are entitled to your opinion as is everyone else on this board.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Board rules prohibit personal attacks. Discuss the content of any post but please do not attack the poster.

 

[KCRuf/Nek]

20-25 pounds too much weight

ummm...okay.

We all remember when Switzer reamed Dupree for being out of shape. And, that was right after Dupree had something like 240 yards in the bowl game.

And I remember him on the sidelines wheezing and needing air in Lincoln when we needed him on the field. And I don't care how many yards he had. He came back fat and out of shape and he ended up hurting his leg. Just because someone is in bad shape and still does well doesn't make it okay. Kelani Ricketts is sure a better player since she got into shape.

AP in May 2009...she never looked like this at OU, but managed to get in this kind of shape a few months after leaving? Who is in charge at OU...especially weight lifting and conditioning?

Note: I'm no tech pro, so I hope the picture is attached.

Well I can't vouch for after OU but she lost about 50lbs before her senior year and it made a noticeable difference in her game. And I imagine she got in better shape afterwards because she wanted to play. Abi lost 30 and did kickboxing and everyone marveled at the difference it made with her.

 

[Soonerbay]

ummm...okay.



And I remember him on the sidelines wheezing and needing air in Lincoln when we needed him on the field. And I don't care how many yards he had. He came back fat and out of shape and he ended up hurting his leg. Just because someone is in bad shape and still does well doesn't make it okay. Kelani Ricketts is sure a better player since she got into shape.



Well I can't vouch for after OU but she lost about 50lbs before her senior year and it made a noticeable difference in her game. And I imagine she got in better shape afterwards because she wanted to play. Abi lost 30 and did kickboxing and everyone marveled at the difference it made with her.

The difference it made with what, how she physically appeared? Sure, she slimmed down and I'm sure she moved better and felt better. BUT, did it make her a better player considering she never had an opportunity to really play while CP was there? SC didn't even allow AO to sub in for CP during AO's freshman, sophomore or very rarely during her junior year, when it really would have been beneficial to her. Instead, they'd bring AP over to the 5 to sub for CP. AO didn't really get any playing time until her senior year...unfortunately! Many bay area fans went to UCLA to see our California girls AO's freshman year. SC never let her off the bench, even when the team was up by double digits early enough in the game. What was REALLY unfortunate is UCLA is AO's hometown. She deserved better! WHICH in my opinion is one of the reasons it's tough to get a top 20 post player to ever cross the Norman border...especially a California post player.

 

[SoonerNorm]

The difference it made with what, how she physically appeared? Sure, she slimmed down and I'm sure she moved better and felt better. BUT, did it make her a better player considering she never had an opportunity to really play while CP was there? SC didn't even allow AO to sub in for CP during AO's freshman, sophomore or very rarely during her junior year, when it really would have been beneficial to her. Instead, they'd bring AP over to the 5 to sub for CP. AO didn't really get any playing time until her senior year...unfortunately! Many bay area fans went to UCLA to see our California girls AO's freshman year. SC never let her off the bench, even when the team was up by double digits early enough in the game. What was REALLY unfortunate is UCLA is AO's hometown. She deserved better! WHICH in my opinion is one of the reasons it's tough to get a top 20 post player to ever cross the Norman border...especially a California post player.

Let me remind you that a coach's job is to do what is best for the TEAM, not any of the individuals on the team. Sherri does a great job of that. AO was not very productive before she lost weight and got in condition and didn't earn the playing time others did. When she improved, she earned the playing time she got. Nothing was handed to her and nothing should have been handed to her and I don't care who was in the stands or how far they drove to watch the Sooners play.

 

[sybarite]

I thought it was pretty well known that Abi came to OU because she could relax behind Courtney and avoid the spotlight for a couple of years? Did Abi even try to play before late her junior year?