I'm gonna say it again - Manek needs to toughen up

[skyvue]

Unlike you, I don't just make stuff up.

It didn't even occur to you that, in a 10-team conference that has 20 starting forwards and perhaps 20-30 backups, it was unlikely Manek ranked 39th. But I make stuff up. Gotcha.

Entering today’s game, Manek was the team leader in +/-; he wouldn’t be in that position if his contributions were strictly offensive.

Defensively, Manek is playing out of position; game after game, he’s tasked with defending guys he shouldn’t have to defend, but most of the big men he’s asked to defend end up scoring something around their average. Very few have gone off against Manek. If it were true that “he can’t defend anyone,” that wouldn’t be the case.

 

[Max Power]

It didn't even occur to you that, in a 10-team conference that has 20 starting forwards and perhaps 20-30 backups, it was unlikely Manek ranked 39th. But I make stuff up. Gotcha.

Entering today’s game, Manek was the team leader in +/-; he wouldn’t be in that position if his contributions were strictly offensive.

Defensively, Manek is playing out of position; game after game, he’s tasked with defending guys he shouldn’t have to defend, but most of the big men he’s asked to defend end up scoring something around their average. Very few have gone off against Manek. If it were true that “he can’t defend anyone,” that wouldn’t be the case.

People already forgetting the job Manek did on Culver last weekend... SAD

 

[WTSooner]

It didn't even occur to you that, in a 10-team conference that has 20 starting forwards and perhaps 20-30 backups, it was unlikely Manek ranked 39th. But I make stuff up. Gotcha.

Entering today’s game, Manek was the team leader in +/-; he wouldn’t be in that position if his contributions were strictly offensive.

Defensively, Manek is playing out of position; game after game, he’s tasked with defending guys he shouldn’t have to defend, but most of the big men he’s asked to defend end up scoring something around their average. Very few have gone off against Manek. If it were true that “he can’t defend anyone,” that wouldn’t be the case.

Dude, I was in a hurry. Correcting you on the interweb doesn't pay the bills. Just like you got in a hurry just a couple of days ago and accused me of saying something I didn't. This was a pretty crappy comeback, even for you.

+/- is a garbage stat. Harmon isn't our second best player, Doolittle isn't our 5th, and Hill isn't our 4th. Trash.

Manek isn't a 4 defensively either. He's probably a 4 in the traditional game of basketball, but most of today's stretch 4's would give him fits. It's okay to admit that he isn't fleet of foot, nor particularly gifted at defending around the rim. Nothing wrong with saying that. I agree he belongs at the 4 spot, but like I said, he'd struggle there too. And he does play the 4 some. He isn't exclusively a 5 for us. And there aren't many true 5's anymore either. The more I type, the more your argument falls apart.

 

[152219]

You're right. I must not have refreshed the page after that sort.

Still wouldn't consider that very good. Trying to figure out what Fox considers a forward. They have have two qualifying "centers" in the Big 12, both with better ratings than Manek. So essentially Manek is 17th in the league in terms of the 4/5 positions. There are 20 that start in the Big 12. Take from that from what you will.

3 forwards that rate above Manek aren't starters, as they have 1, 3, and 7 starts this year, but they do play enough minutes/game to qualify.

 

[BCSooners]

They don't have to. When they're on the bench for 16 minutes in foul trouble.
Manek had 7p/5rebs. Asbigasabuick had 15 and 17.
Who would you rather have on your team?

How often does that happen?

You’re asking if I would rather have an NBA player or Manek? I’d rather have Manek than most bigs in the Big12.

Also Udoka didn’t guard Manek, they put Garrett on him. Udoka guarded Doolittle and he had 27 & 12.

 

[BCSooners]

Not really, in terms of this conversation.

You don't have to be as big as you opponent to play good defense on him. Manek isn't a good defender, on anybody. So yeah, it stands out a little more against somebody like this. Manek is to blame, but Kruger is more to blame. Goes back to recruiting a complete roster.

It is when you consider my argument. Notice that when the center comes to guard Manek he gets 20+ on the perimeter. Bigs in that era never did that.

 

[BCSooners]

You're right. I must not have refreshed the page after that sort.

Still wouldn't consider that very good. Trying to figure out what Fox considers a forward. They have have two qualifying "centers" in the Big 12, both with better ratings than Manek. So essentially Manek is 17th in the league in terms of the 4/5 positions. There are 20 that start in the Big 12. Take from that from what you will.

If you went by forwards then added 2 he’d be 17th out of the 3/4/5 position.

 

[WTSooner]

If you went by forwards then added 2 he’d be 17th out of the 3/4/5 position.

I'm pretty sure they are counting what most teams are playing at the 3 as a forward. Appears to me they do a pretty good job of distinguishing between positions. Not many "small forwards" in the Big 12.

This is the college game. Not the NBA.

 

[WTSooner]

It is when you consider my argument. Notice that when the center comes to guard Manek he gets 20+ on the perimeter. Bigs in that era never did that.

But we aren't talking about offense. And we aren't talking about overall contribution. This was about DEFENSE.

 

[BCSooners]

I'm pretty sure they are counting what most teams are playing at the 3 as a forward. Appears to me they do a pretty good job of distinguishing between positions. Not many "small forwards" in the Big 12.

This is the college game. Not the NBA.

What’s the website? I tried fox & sports reference but couldn’t sort by conference or position.

 

[BCSooners]

But we aren't talking about offense. And we aren't talking about overall contribution. This was about DEFENSE.

We were talking about eras.

 

[WTSooner]

What’s the website? I tried fox & sports reference but couldn’t sort by conference or position.

It's there, on that site. The position is the advanced search. Conference pops up when you change the teams to the right to all teams.

 

[BCSooners]

It's there, on that site. The position is the advanced search. Conference pops up when you change the teams to the right to all teams.

3 of those forwards would be considered SF. So Manek is 14th for the 4/5 position. Also 4 of those 4/5 guys don’t start.

Manek isn’t a great defender, he’s also not a bad one.

I just wish we could have some conversations after wins.

 

[WTSooner]

3 of those forwards would be considered SF. So Manek is 14th for the 4/5 position. Also 4 of those 4/5 guys don’t start.

Manek isn’t a great defender, he’s also not a bad one.

I just wish we could have some conversations after wins.

Why? The W/L doesn't change anything. I'm not developing my opinion on Manek based on one game, win or lose. It's based on all of them. Our teams defense is in the 40's. Not brutal, but certainly not good. That means we have some folks playing, ON AVERAGE, not very good defense. All I've read on here is that JB and Harmon defend well. Doolittle is rated higher than Manek on the link I provided. Who does that leave to play less than stellar defense?

I'm over-simplifying a bit, but my eyes tell me Manek is not a good defender.

 

[BCSooners]

Why? The W/L doesn't change anything. I'm not developing my opinion on Manek based on one game, win or lose. It's based on all of them. Our teams defense is in the 40's. Not brutal, but certainly not good. That means we have some folks playing, ON AVERAGE, not very good defense. All I've read on here is that JB and Harmon defend well. Doolittle is rated higher than Manek on the link I provided. Who does that leave to play less than stellar defense?

I'm over-simplifying a bit, but my eyes tell me Manek is not a good defender.

40s is pretty dang good (top 12%), especially with a tougher schedule.

The win comment was based that you don’t comment after wins.

 

[Leroy]

He never tries to front the post or play on high side. Always behind post so he can get posted up so low. He is passive and never blocks out. He has to cover the post because he has zero foot speed to cover outside the lane.

 

[BoulderSooner]

Some of this thread is just wow.

 

[thebigabd]

Some of this thread is just wow.

Agreed... We have a 1st team all conference forward who is one of the most unique and skilled players in the COUNTRY. At this point he is above minor criticism.

 

[sheepdogs1]

Some of this thread is just wow.

The sulking part or the non sulking part?