Is Kelvin a realistic option?

Kelvin could win 20 games with two Samoans, three Cossacks and a Benedictine monk.
 
TINY said:
Kelvin was a great coach. He had ou bordering on elite during his tenure. He left for a better job and that sucked but I also don’t want him back. He has a good thing going and Joe C will make a great hire when Lon retires. Both parties will be just fine.
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I think there are a lot of reasons to do this for both sides. Kelvin is one of the most underpaid HCs in the country, and we could easily afford to double his salary. Furthermore, Kellen has been an assistant coach for over a decade and it's time to see what he's capable of; I know Kelvin has been talking him up. There's no chance OU would offer Kellen a spot, but I bet Houston would.
 
WichitaSooner said:
Is 5 of 6 years good enough?
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If OU either A: misses the tourney or B: fails to reach 20 wins this season (likely) then Kruger will have only accomplished the feat (20 + tourney) 4 out of his 8 years here (all with Buddy Hield incidentally). But more concerning, it will be 3 seasons in a row failing to reach 20 wins, and winning fewer Big 12 games than ANY OTHER TEAM IN THE CONFERENCE over that span.

Kelvin on the other hand managed 20+ wins AND an NCAA bid 9 out of 12 (11 of 12 NCAA tourney bids total), including FIVE 25+ win seasons, with no lottery picks on his roster mind you. Kruger has had exactly ONE season of 25+ wins and is in serious danger of missing the tourney 2 of the last 3.

So to answer your question, no Kruger's results aren't good enough. He has a LOSING Big 12 record over his tenure here ffs.
 
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He also won the big 12 tournament 4-5 times.

Lon Kruger, in his entire coaching career, has won a conference or conference tournament twice. In the entire career.

OU seriously downgraded with Kruger and Capel, and the results speak for themselves.
 
MrAnderson said:
If OU either A: misses the tourney or B: fails to reach 20 wins this season (likely) then Kruger will have only accomplished the feat (20 + tourney) 4 out of his 8 years here (all with Buddy Hield incidentally). But more concerning, it will be 3 seasons in a row failing to reach 20 wins, and winning fewer Big 12 games than ANY OTHER TEAM IN THE CONFERENCE over that span.

Kelvin on the other hand managed 20+ wins AND an NCAA bid 9 out of 12 (11 of 12 NCAA tourney bids total), including FIVE 25+ win seasons, with no lottery picks on his roster mind you. Kruger has had exactly ONE season of 25+ wins and is in serious danger of missing the tourney 2 of the last 3.

So to answer your question, no Kruger's results aren't good enough. He has a LOSING Big 12 record over his tenure here ffs.
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You actually didn't answer my question. You went on and on about what your opinion would be IF we miss the tournament.

Also, can everyone please stop with the false suggestion that Lon owes four years of success to Buddy? Disclaimer: Buddy is my favorite Sooner of all time. But let's be real. His first two years, he wasn't a guy who carried the team to the postseason or 20 wins. It would basically be like claiming that Lon owes last year's tournament berth to Manek. Also, Lon has coached for 35+ years. He has been successful everywhere. To act like he hasn't shown he can win without one specific player is as silly as it is wrong. We aren't talking about Capel here.
 
Eielson said:
Actually, it's revisionist history on your part, as he had a 31 win Final Four season, and had 25+ wins in 5 of his last 7 years here. That's a far cry from your silly "20 wins...no more" talk. As great of a coach as I felt he was when we had him, I firmly believe he's a better coach now thanks to his time in the NBA.
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Yep!
 
WichitaSooner said:
You actually didn't answer my question. You went on and on about what your opinion would be IF we miss the tournament.

Also, can everyone please stop with the false suggestion that Lon owes four years of success to Buddy? Disclaimer: Buddy is my favorite Sooner of all time. But let's be real. His first two years, he wasn't a guy who carried the team to the postseason or 20 wins. It would basically be like claiming that Lon owes last year's tournament berth to Manek. Also, Lon has coached for 35+ years. He has been successful everywhere. To act like he hasn't shown he can win without one specific player is as silly as it is wrong. We aren't talking about Capel here.
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I love it when you rag on capel while defending Lon even though they have similar win % at OU.

You also never address the facts I post. Lon has a losing record in big 12 play in 7+ years at OU. 69-70. Lon has the worst record in the big 12 in league play the last 3 years combined. He has won 25 games in a season 1 time in 8 years, when he had the national POY.

These are facts. Lon is a mediocre coach at best (opinion) as his lifetime ~60% win percent reflects.
 
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MrAnderson said:
I love it when you rag on capel while defending Lon even though they have similar win % at OU.

You also never address the facts I post. Lon has a losing record in big 12 play in 7+ years at OU. 69-70. Lon has the worst record in the big 12 in league play 3 years combined. He has won 25 games in a season 1 time in 8 years, when he had the national POY.

These are facts. Lon is a mediocre coach at best (opinion) as his lifetime ~60% win percent reflects.
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Lon has won 61% of his games at OU. Capel won 58%. That's not an insignificant difference. And it grows larger if you don't count the 13 wins that Capel had vacated. I assume Lon might have been able to add a few Ws to his ledger if he cheated. As for your 25-win stat, that just shows how arbitrary cutoff points can be used to manipulate things. He also has a 23-win season, a 24-win season, and a 20-win season. Most college basketball people point to 20 wins as the benchmark of a good team when you are talking about teams playing in a Power 5 league, but you have chosen another number to suit your narrative. In any event, Capel had two seasons with more than 16 wins, and he did it against a significantly worse SOS than Kruger has played at OU. So if you want to talk facts, I'm all for it.

Bigger question to me is, why does it seem like so many people want to discuss the Lon/Kelvin thing as if OU chose one over the other? It's not like OU fired Kelvin and then hired Lon. Kelvin left on his own for a better job, and Kruger arrived at OU five years later to try to resurrect a program that was coming off two awful seasons and that was in hot water with the NCAA. Hot take -- Billy, Kelvin, and Lon are all good basketball coaches that 95% of programs in America would be lucky to have.
 
I love the selective memory of the posters on this board.

He was a repeat Cheater who was Banned from coaching by the NCAA for a time period.

I had several interactions with him off the court at events and he was a complete Jerk!
 
The difference between Lon being at 61% and being at 58% is less than 1 win per season. That is not significant.
 
OU92Grad said:
I love the selective memory of the posters on this board.

He was a repeat Cheater who was Banned from coaching by the NCAA for a time period.

I had several interactions with him off the court at events and he was a complete Jerk!
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He was a repeat offender after he left OU. What he did at ou was against the rules even though it was insignificant enough that a few years later it wasn’t against the rukes
 
WichitaSooner said:
Lon has won 61% of his games at OU. Capel won 58%. That's not an insignificant difference. And it grows larger if you don't count the 13 wins that Capel had vacated. I assume Lon might have been able to add a few Ws to his ledger if he cheated. As for your 25-win stat, that just shows how arbitrary cutoff points can be used to manipulate things. He also has a 23-win season, a 24-win season, and a 20-win season. Most college basketball people point to 20 wins as the benchmark of a good team when you are talking about teams playing in a Power 5 league, but you have chosen another number to suit your narrative. In any event, Capel had two seasons with more than 16 wins, and he did it against a significantly worse SOS than Kruger has played at OU. So if you want to talk facts, I'm all for it.

Bigger question to me is, why does it seem like so many people want to discuss the Lon/Kelvin thing as if OU chose one over the other? It's not like OU fired Kelvin and then hired Lon. Kelvin left on his own for a better job, and Kruger arrived at OU five years later to try to resurrect a program that was coming off two awful seasons and that was in hot water with the NCAA. Hot take -- Billy, Kelvin, and Lon are all good basketball coaches that 95% of programs in America would be lucky to have.
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You're right about the arbitrary 25 win benchmark. I withdraw my remarks about it.

So let's just talk win % and march success

Sampson: 72%/68% (12 years, 11 ncaa bids)
- 1 FF, 1 E8, 1 S16
- 1 conference title, 3 conference tourney titles

Capel: 55%/43% (5 years, 2 ncaa bids)
- 1 E8

Kruger: 61%/50% (7+ years, 5 ncaa bids)
- 1 FF, 1 S16

There seems to be a clear hierarchy. I dont expect Kruger to be Sampson but I expect him to win more big 12 games than he loses and not finish near or at the bottom of the league 3 straight seasons.
 
WichitaSooner said:
Lon has won 61% of his games at OU. Capel won 58%. That's not an insignificant difference.
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Eh...not really. A lot of things can skew the data 3%. It's pretty tough to skew the data 11% (the difference between KS and LK)

And it grows larger if you don't count the 13 wins that Capel had vacated. I assume Lon might have been able to add a few Ws to his ledger if he cheated.
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The one reason Lon is better than Capel -- Lon runs a clean program. As for on the court results...there's not much difference.

As for your 25-win stat, that just shows how arbitrary cutoff points can be used to manipulate things. He also has a 23-win season, a 24-win season, and a 20-win season. Most college basketball people point to 20 wins as the benchmark of a good team when you are talking about teams playing in a Power 5 league, but you have chosen another number to suit your narrative.
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15 win seasons suck. 20 win seasons are quality. 25 win seasons are very good. 30 win seasons are elite. They all just indicate something different. As I stated earlier, Kelvin won 25+ games 5 of his last 7 years here. I think he could have won 20 wins with a whole team doing the bird box challenge.

Bigger question to me is, why does it seem like so many people want to discuss the Lon/Kelvin thing as if OU chose one over the other? It's not like OU fired Kelvin and then hired Lon. Kelvin left on his own for a better job, and Kruger arrived at OU five years later to try to resurrect a program that was coming off two awful seasons and that was in hot water with the NCAA. Hot take -- Billy, Kelvin, and Lon are all good basketball coaches that 95% of programs in America would be lucky to have.
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Fair point. Except for the last point -- Lon is not a top 5% coach. If Lon and OU parted ways after this season, and Lon didn't retire, I suspect he'd end up at a high quality mid-major program.
 
WTSooner said:
The difference between Lon being at 61% and being at 58% is less than 1 win per season. That is not significant.
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So a .270 hitter is as good as a .300 hitter? Because that's also "only" a difference of three per 100. And as I noted, Lon has played a much tougher schedule than Capel did OU.

As for some of the other posters on the board, I've never suggested Kelvin wasn't a great coach. I love the guy, and unlike some of you, he treated me incredibly well and I have no connection to the program other than being a diehard fan since I was a tiny kid growing up in Kansas. But again, I don't see why there is any need to compare him and Lon. Even if you don't think Lon measures up to KS, that in and of itself doesn't mean he isn't a good coach.
 
WichitaSooner said:
So a .270 hitter is as good as a .300 hitter? Because that's also "only" a difference of three per 100. And as I noted, Lon has played a much tougher schedule than Capel did OU.
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oh c'mon. That isn't even comparable.

I don't know anyone but you that would debate there is a big difference b/t a winning percentage of 58% and 61%
 
It's not fair to say Lon only won with Buddy. Lon has had successful seasons nearly everywhere he's gone. The problem is this -- Lon wins in CYCLES. He never has sustained success. If you look at his career, he's gone to the Sweet 16 with nearly every team he's coached (exception: Illinois). You'll also notice that early success never led to the program reaching new heights; they spiraled downward immediately after.

My take on this is not that he becomes complacent or anything like that, but simply that he has to reset. He's never been at a program long enough to have time for a second wave of success, but I fully expect he will if he stays at OU a few more years. This second wave has been delayed because James/Odomes didn't develop into Cousins/Hield caliber, which was followed up by the McGusty disaster and Trae's early departure. This program is getting a hard reset next year, and I fully expect us to make a Sweet 16 with the incoming group of guys. That's just the Lon Kruger way, and I'll take bets on it all day (if he makes it that long). My hope is that he retires on that high note, and steps away before we have to experience this downward cycle again (which, historically speaking, is almost inevitable).
 
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