Is Oklahoma cooked as a program?

[MiketheH]

I completed graduate school at OU in 1997. After, for more than a decade, I'd spend most of my vacation days ( 5 for the first 5 years and then 10 for the next 5) watching the Thursday / Friday games of the tournament's first 2 weekends. Basketball was fun! Even when the wins weren't coming, we had a tough and competitive team. OU was a consensus top 20 all-time program.

I no longer have interest, and the reason why is as follows:

- OU has had 4 ranked teams since 2007, Capel's first year.
- 4 in 20 seasons!! Only 20% of 2 the last 2 decades!
- They include 2 top 10 ( 7 and 7), 1 top 15 (13), and 1 top 25 (21).
- OU is in its 10th straight unranked season.

I wonder if OU has been down for so long that they cannot recover without ridiculous (TT-like) resources. I don't know the financial support provided up to this point. Therefore, I don't know how much blame to place on the administration and how much to place on Moser. Regardless, the tandem has been an absolute failure.

Has OU's place as a top 20-25 program come to an end?

Data Source:

Seasons | OU Men's Basketball | SoonerStats

soonerstats.com

Seasons | OU Men's Basketball | SoonerStats

soonerstats.com

Seasons | OU Men's Basketball | SoonerStats

soonerstats.com

 

[daqman]

lon hung on 2 years too long and we hired the wrong guy to replace him.
it can be fixed rather quickly....but it's critical that the next hire be the right guy.
hopefully after this season ends...

 

[pnkranger]

We have the players to compete, just not the game preparation, X's and O's coaching, or accountability to maintain a consistent level of play against P5 competition. For someone with more time on their hands, I would love to see what Porter's record at OU is against P5 teams.

 

[WichitaSooner]

We have the players to compete, just not the game preparation, X's and O's coaching, or accountability to maintain a consistent level of play against P5 competition. For someone with more time on their hands, I would love to see what Porter's record at OU is against P5 teams.

We are 3-7 this year against actual competition. With the roster everyone says is the best of his coaching career.

 

[AnotherSoonerInTX]

lon hung on 2 years too long and we hired the wrong guy to replace him.
it can be fixed rather quickly....but it's critical that the next hire be the right guy.
hopefully after this season ends...

If we make the right hire and we have enough $ to pay our roster the SEC average or more, it can be fixed.

Joe C. is on the way out the door. The first order of business for the new AD will be to hire a new basketball coach.

We are desperate for success (a national championship) in football, and money is flowing in that direction. Hopefully, though, we have some BMDs that are tired of us being mediocre in basketball.

We can get back to being a program that finished in the top half of the conference every year, winning 20 games most years, making the tournament consistently with a deep run every few years, and an occasional Final Four.

If Alabama can be excellent in both football and hoops, OU can, too. With or without an excellent NBA team in the backyard.

 

[WichitaSooner]

If we make the right hire and we have enough $ to pay our roster the SEC average or more, it can be fixed.

Joe C. is on the way out the door. The first order of business for the new AD will be to hire a new basketball coach.

We are desperate for success (a national championship) in football, and money is flowing in that direction. Hopefully, though, we have some BMDs that are tired of us being mediocre in basketball.

We can get back to being a program that finished in the top half of the conference every year, winning 20 games most years, making the tournament consistently with a deep run every few years, and an occasional Final Four.

If Alabama can be excellent in both football and hoops, OU can, too. With or without an excellent NBA team in the backyard.

And Georgia under Mike White is now relevant. He took over after a 6-win season by Tom Crean. He is now on track for his second consecutive tourney appearance, in one fewer year than Moser. And his team has improved their record each season so far.

 

[soonertrash77]

We have the players to compete, just not the game preparation, X's and O's coaching, or accountability to maintain a consistent level of play against P5 competition. For someone with more time on their hands, I would love to see what Porter's record at OU is against P5

I would bet it’s not a whole lot better than his conference record which is awful. The title to this thread is ‘is Oklahoma cooked as a program’. I say absolutely not. We gotta start by getting rid of PM. But there are too many instances around the country where sharp coaches that have a specific system and IMPLEMENT that system and RECRUIT to the system are very successful. Odom at UVA, the dude at IOWA, Hoiberg at Nebraska, Bucky at TAM and the dude at Vanderbilt. NONE of the programs listed are huge NIL folks.

When PM was canned from Illinois State the AD there said, in so many words, he failed to build a program. Truer words could be said of his time here.

 

[AnotherSoonerInTX]

And Georgia under Mike White is now relevant. He took over after a 6-win season by Tom Crean. He is now on track for his second consecutive tourney appearance, in one fewer year than Moser. And his team has improved their record each season so far.

And that was after Florida basically told him to find another place to go.

 

[AnotherSoonerInTX]

I would bet it’s not a whole lot better than his conference record which is awful. The title to this thread is ‘is Oklahoma cooked as a program’. I say absolutely not. We gotta start by getting rid of PM. But there are too many instances around the country where sharp coaches that have a specific system and IMPLEMENT that system and RECRUIT to the system are very successful. Odom at UVA, the dude at IOWA, Hoiberg at Nebraska, Bucky at TAM and the dude at Vanderbilt. NONE of the programs listed are huge NIL folks.

When PM was canned from Illinois State the AD there said, in so many words, he failed to build a program. Truer words could be said of his time here.

How these things go around. Porter was fired from Illinois State by then-AD Sheahon Zenger. Zenger went on to be the AD at Kansas, where he was run off after the football program went into the ditch.

Moser's Tenure at ISU Comes to an End - Illinois State University Athletics

March 5, 2007NORMAL, Ill. - Citing "a lack of progress" within the men's basketball program, Illinois State Director of Athletics Sheahon Zenger announced the

goredbirds.com

 

[SunshinePumper]

It feels like rock bottom for OU hoops. Moser can’t even make the tournament more than 20% of the time.

 

[opsooner]

I am amazed by what I read from some people who claim to cover sports. I read one tonight on X indicating that firing Moser was not the answer to OU basketball problems.

I can’t believe people think the program is ever going to get better with him. Of course, he’s not the only problem. But the only way to get this program out of the basement is to find a guy who teaches players how to win. We will get better crowds (not saying sellouts) and revenue if fans start seeing that progress.

I guess some people want to primarily blame the other things: AD, money, etc. And they believe those things are what needs to be fixed first. But if we don’t have a coach that can find the right guys and teach them to win nothing else will ever matter. Basketball will always be a secondary sport at OU and, to me, getting the right coach who knows how to win, knows how to develop, and wants to be at OU is the only way the program ever gets on the map again.

 

[WichitaSooner]

I am amazed by what I read from some people who claim to cover sports. I read one tonight on X indicating that firing Moser was not the answer to OU basketball problems.

I can’t believe people think the program is ever going to get better with him. Of course, he’s not the only problem. But the only way to get this program out of the basement is to find a guy who teaches players how to win. We will get better crowds (not saying sellouts) and revenue if fans start seeing that progress.

I guess some people want to primarily blame the other things: AD, money, etc. And they believe those things are what needs to be fixed first. But if we don’t have a coach that can find the right guys and teach them to win nothing else will ever matter. Basketball will always be a secondary sport at OU and, to me, getting the right coach who knows how to win, knows how to develop, and wants to be at OU is the only way the program ever gets on the map again.

I think some writers and broadcasters are just predisposed to never criticize a coach unless the coach gets in serious trouble off the court. I guess they fear it will hurt their access. Or they think it makes them look smart if they mock fans who second guess coaches.

 

[hoopsaustin]

How these things go around. Porter was fired from Illinois State by then-AD Sheahon Zenger. Zenger went on to be the AD at Kansas, where he was run off after the football program went into the ditch.

Moser's Tenure at ISU Comes to an End - Illinois State University Athletics

March 5, 2007NORMAL, Ill. - Citing "a lack of progress" within the men's basketball program, Illinois State Director of Athletics Sheahon Zenger announced the

goredbirds.com

Lolol

"In Moser's tenure, the Redbirds were never higher than the No. 6 seed at the State Farm Missouri Valley Conference Tournament and finished as the No. 10 seed twice. In league play, the Redbirds compiled a 22-50 (.306) mark in Valley games under Moser - the lowest four-year mark since Illinois State joined the conference in 1981."

IT'S THE EXACT SAME STUFF

 

[AnotherSoonerInTX]

Lolol

"In Moser's tenure, the Redbirds were never higher than the No. 6 seed at the State Farm Missouri Valley Conference Tournament and finished as the No. 10 seed twice. In league play, the Redbirds compiled a 22-50 (.306) mark in Valley games under Moser - the lowest four-year mark since Illinois State joined the conference in 1981."

IT'S THE EXACT SAME STUFF

Buyer beware. And Joe C. didn't take that into account. He thought he could win the press conference with Sister Jean's buddy that took Loyola to the Final Four.

 

[hoopsaustin]

Buyer beware. And Joe C. didn't take that into account. He thought he could win the press conference with Sister Jean's buddy that took Loyola to the Final Four.

I dont fault joe c for the hire tho. And I'm Joe's biggest hater. It was so seductive that Loser was a guru acter his final 4 which was also followed up by a sweet 16, I think. Too bad that was all the luck the moron ever had for a lifetime

 

[daqman]

I dont fault joe c for the hire tho. And I'm Joe's biggest hater. It was so seductive that Loser was a guru acter his final 4 which was also followed up by a sweet 16, I think. Too bad that was all the luck the moron ever had for a lifetime

i do blame joe c. he's supposed to be smarter than the rest of us and he should also have access to some pretty smart people advising him.
but he hired capel...and moser. so he shouldn't be anywhere near the people hiring the next coach.

 

[OUSKINS]

I think people understate the disappointment and damage done immediately following the Final Four team. I’m not absolving Moser at all. If you coach for five years at a P5 school and make the tourney once with a very poor overall conf record, you aren’t doing a good job, period. But to follow up the F4 when you have some real momentum with five underwhelming/kinda boring/underperforming teams, it has residual effects. The mass exodus of fans began prior to Moser.

I truly view the Lon years in two parts… the first part was excellent. The exact type of ascension you want to see. The second part was not good, and it left the program in a bit of a weird spot. Almost completely out of the consciousness. Then, it appears we hired the wrong guy to set it all straight.

I agree with premise of the post… 10 years matters. It’s too long to just now assume it can be easily rekindled.

 

[skyvue]

I agree with premise of the post… 10 years matters. It’s too long to just now assume it can be easily rekindled.

Perhaps not easily, but the OP asked if the program was cooked, which implies dead. Done. Beyond saving. I don't for a moment believe that.

 

[WichitaSooner]

I think people understate the disappointment and damage done immediately following the Final Four team. I’m not absolving Moser at all. If you coach for five years at a P5 school and make the tourney once with a very poor overall conf record, you aren’t doing a good job, period. But to follow up the F4 when you have some real momentum with five underwhelming/kinda boring/underperforming teams, it has residual effects. The mass exodus of fans began prior to Moser.

I truly view the Lon years in two parts… the first part was excellent. The exact type of ascension you want to see. The second part was not good, and it left the program in a bit of a weird spot. Almost completely out of the consciousness. Then, it appears we hired the wrong guy to set it all straight.

I agree with premise of the post… 10 years matters. It’s too long to just now assume it can be easily rekindled.

I think this is overblown. I posted this years ago, but outside the elite programs, there are a lot of programs that make a FF and don’t follow it up with anything approaching that level of success. The year after the FF for us was awful. We obviously lost our two best players, plus Spangler. Woodard missing most of the next season hurt a lot, and a couple other guys didn’t take the steps we all hoped. But after that season, Lon got back to having us in the tourney every year, and we won games in two of those years. We were still in position to succeed when he retired. Moser should have been able to come in and sustain that level at a minimum, but he immediately set us back by rescuing a roster that was better suited for his comfy mid major level.

 

[WaymanFan]

We're not "cooked" as a program, but I do have one frightening thought. Let's say there was an internet poll with this question: "Which Power school football fan base would be most likely to approve reallocating ALL basketball NIL money toward football?" I'm scared to ask this, but would Oklahoma win?