Jalen Hill enters transfer portal

[sooner333]

I think Hill wants to win. He has one year left, realizes he doesn't have much of a pro future, and probably wants his last year of basketball to be spent at a place where he has a real chance to play for a team that will make the tournament and potentially make a run. I've always felt there are three main reasons why a kid would leave: playing time, winning, and not liking the coach. The first obviously isn't an issue with Jalen. The second is, and who knows about the third. I guess now we have to add a fourth, and that's NIL. If I am Hill and I feel like I can go to a better team AND get paid more, it is a fairly easy decision. But I agree with your point that it is concerning to see guys who are playing big minutes leave. It's one thing to lose guys who are buried on the bench. When a starter who the coach really wants to stay decides to leave, there is something to be concerned about.

I think leaving because "wants to win" is part of the culture issue referenced. Ideally you're building a culture where you want to win and win here. And if you're not winning now, there's a belief you will be winning soon because you're building a program and each player is an integral building block toward that future.

I'm not saying it's realistic for everyone to buy in, but we've had a lot of people decide to move elsewhere. A guy like Jalen leaving is concerning -- he's been loyal to the program, two coaches, and from everything I've heard a great kid in general.

All that said, I'm willing to see how the roster shakes out and it plays out next year. I have my gripes about how things are going, but it's not going to be very productive to do anything but hope for the best for next year -- a critical season for OU hoops.

 

[NorthCarolinaSooner]

I think we are missing the point on the Hill departure. Moser has been selling culture and wanting to build the program with youth and work towards a goal of winning with his own guys.

To me, seeing Bijan (who was getting real minutes) and now Hill (a 3-year starter) leave indicates to me there is an issue with the culture of this team and makes me question if Moser is the guy. It's not really about Hill's overall talent or performance, it's about the message his departure sends. Hill could have been a great building block on Moser's culture wall, but I am afraid the wall is built on sand and is washing away as we speak.

I think the bigger issue is the culture of the NCAA with the portal and with NIL. That has a lot to do with the state of college hoops. When you see some of the guys entering the portal from the programs that have lost kids that tells you a lot. We are whining about losing a guy that averaged 3 ppg and one that averaged 10 on a mediocre team.

You guys putting Hill on a pedestal because he is the best returner on the worst team in the league need to reevaluate what you want. Do you want a better team or do you simply want the ability to keep complaining about us being mediocre again next year?

On a good team Hill is, at BEST, a role player.

If I could hand pick guys from the portal (and I know PM can't do that) but there are 20 guys I'd pick before Hill...and that is being conservative.

 

[WichitaSooner]

I think the bigger issue is the culture of the NCAA with the portal and with NIL. That has a lot to do with the state of college hoops. When you see some of the guys entering the portal from the programs that have lost kids that tells you a lot. We are whining about losing a guy that averaged 3 ppg and one that averaged 10 on a mediocre team.

You guys putting Hill on a pedestal because he is the best returner on the worst team in the league need to reevaluate what you want. Do you want a better team or do you simply want the ability to keep complaining about us being mediocre again next year?

On a good team Hill is, at BEST, a role player.

If I could hand pick guys from the portal (and I know PM can't do that) but there are 20 guys I'd pick before Hill...and that is being conservative.

I can't wait to see how next season goes for Jalen. Where he goes, how much he plays, and how much success his team has. If he ends up starting/playing heavy minutes on a very good team, I'm sure some of you will still downplay it and say he is "just a role player." As long as that role is "does a lot of things to help his team win," I want that guy on my team any day of the week. We had plenty of guys on this roster who most certainly did NOT help us win. Those are guys I am more than happy to see leave. Jalen is not one of those guys.

 

[allday92]

I think the bigger issue is the culture of the NCAA with the portal and with NIL. That has a lot to do with the state of college hoops. When you see some of the guys entering the portal from the programs that have lost kids that tells you a lot. We are whining about losing a guy that averaged 3 ppg and one that averaged 10 on a mediocre team.

You guys putting Hill on a pedestal because he is the best returner on the worst team in the league need to reevaluate what you want. Do you want a better team or do you simply want the ability to keep complaining about us being mediocre again next year?

On a good team Hill is, at BEST, a role player.

If I could hand pick guys from the portal (and I know PM can't do that) but there are 20 guys I'd pick before Hill...and that is being conservative.

Exactly. Looking at player ratings on EvanMiya or On3 of players in the transfer portal, Hill isn't even in the top 50.

 

[WTSooner]

The Portal is just dumb right now. I get kids leaving small schools to play on a bigger stage. I get kids that aren't getting the minutes they want going to a lower level school to get those minutes.

But kids playing a lot of minutes on good teams leaving? Like Mark from Houston? Or Love from NC? THOSE are the types of transfers that leave me shaking my head. Even Hill from OU to some extent. I get that there might be reasons, and maybe some of them are legit, but those types of transfers are just hard to accept given that they traditionally haven't happened. Like, at all.

 

[WichitaSooner]

The Portal is just dumb right now. I get kids leaving small schools to play on a bigger stage. I get kids that aren't getting the minutes they want going to a lower level school to get those minutes.

But kids playing a lot of minutes on good teams leaving? Like Mark from Houston? Or Love from NC? THOSE are the types of transfers that leave me shaking my head. Even Hill from OU to some extent. I get that there might be reasons, and maybe some of them are legit, but those types of transfers are just hard to accept given that they traditionally haven't happened. Like, at all.

I'd guess Love was a mutual decision. That team was a mess and the chemistry was a big reason. He took a million bad shots and his departure is probably best for him and the team.

 

[WTSooner]

I'd guess Love was a mutual decision. That team was a mess and the chemistry was a big reason. He took a million bad shots and his departure is probably best for him and the team.

That is probably true, but it's still weird seeing guys of that caliber, that have had success (both individual and as a team) transferring out.

 

[skyvue]

You guys putting Hill on a pedestal because he is the best returner on the worst team in the league need to reevaluate what you want. Do you want a better team or do you simply want the ability to keep complaining about us being mediocre again next year?

I want a better team, but you don't get better by losing your best players every offseason and then hoping against hope that Moser can catch lightning in a bottle in the portal while we cross our fingers that a couple of incoming freshmen will play like upperclassmen. If Moser gets a better player in the portal--not measured just by points or three-point shooting percentage, but also defense, toughness, experience, leadership, etc.--great, but imagine if he'd gotten that player AND we'd kept Hill. What's so hard to grasp about how that would be a better situation? We didn't need Hill's slot. We've got plenty of openings on the roster.

 

[jaymOU]

I think the bigger issue is the culture of the NCAA with the portal and with NIL. That has a lot to do with the state of college hoops. When you see some of the guys entering the portal from the programs that have lost kids that tells you a lot. We are whining about losing a guy that averaged 3 ppg and one that averaged 10 on a mediocre team.

You guys putting Hill on a pedestal because he is the best returner on the worst team in the league need to reevaluate what you want. Do you want a better team or do you simply want the ability to keep complaining about us being mediocre again next year?

On a good team Hill is, at BEST, a role player.

If I could hand pick guys from the portal (and I know PM can't do that) but there are 20 guys I'd pick before Hill...and that is being conservative.

I think we all agree Hill can be "over-recruited" if you land the right guys in the portal - big if.

But my point is what PM has said about building a program and wanting 4-5 year guys to play. With NIL this idea may be antiquated, but it's his stance and Hill is EXACTLY the kind of player and person you want on your team.

All PM did last year was praise the D played by Hill and have Hill guard the other team's best player - whether they were a 1, 2, 3 or 4 on the court.

To me, this is exactly who PM would be targeting with all those culture wall comments. Maybe the NIL lure will be strong with Jalen and I get that. But it begs a bigger question.

So is PM's idea on how to build a team in the NIL world faulty?

I believe it is outdated and I think his time at OU needs to come to an end - the longer you wait the further in the hole you get.

During the season, I referenced KSU and ISU and was told those were outliers, but I think PM and his idea about building a program might be the outlier here.

Hope I am wrong. I love PM's energy and the things he says, but I am just not sure they work anymore.

 

[WichitaSooner]

I think we all agree Hill can be "over-recruited" if you land the right guys in the portal - big if.

But my point is what PM has said about building a program and wanting 4-5 year guys to play. With NIL this idea may be antiquated, but it's his stance and Hill is EXACTLY the kind of player and person you want on your team.

All PM did last year was praise the D played by Hill and have Hill guard the other team's best player - whether they were a 1, 2, 3 or 4 on the court.

To me, this is exactly who PM would be targeting with all those culture wall comments. Maybe the NIL lure will be strong with Jalen and I get that. But it begs a bigger question.

So is PM's idea on how to build a team in the NIL world faulty?

I believe it is outdated and I think his time at OU needs to come to an end - the longer you wait the further in the hole you get.

During the season, I referenced KSU and ISU and was told those were outliers, but I think PM and his idea about building a program might be the outlier here.

Hope I am wrong. I love PM's energy and the things he says, but I am just not sure they work anymore.

Excellent points. I think it will be basically impossible for him to win the way he won in his last four years at Loyola.

 

[steverocks35]

This is exactly why I think redshirting a player in today's CBB climate is useless.

 

[thebigabd]

This is exactly why I think redshirting a player in today's CBB climate is useless.

Unless specifically requested by the player....

Perhaps contracts are in order? Maybe schools should be signing players to 1, 2, 3, or 4 year contracts? if the recruit agrees to 2 years, they can't transfer without penalty. If they only agree to 1 year, they have no guarantee of a spot on next years team, etc.

That could provide some more certainty perhaps?

 

[MJSooner]

Most "fans" constantly complained about the talent Moser had up and down the roster. Too many game threads where I was told how bad Hill sucked, couldn't hit a 3 or missed too many bunnies. True or not, both those fans and true supporters would agree that last place in the conference is not somewhere we can be next year. Or any year. To improve on the positioning, it is critical that the roster has to improve.

Yeah, Hill was an experienced player, a good defender, a veteran in the locker room, and our 2nd best player. But he was the second-best player on a last-place team, maybe limited athletically, a tweener, and really hadn't shown a huge leap up in his offensive skills in 4 years. If we want to be better, our 2nd best player HAS to be better than Jalen Hill.

Let's face it, if Hill and Tanner are our 2nd and 3rd best players, how many other lineups in the Big XII, SEC, B1G would they average 30-32 MPG? Would they be in the top 7-8 rotation at Texas, KU, Baylor, or KSU? Those answers tell you what you need to know about Jalen Hill and where we need to go moving forward.

I like Jalen Hill. Really good kid and the kind of glue teams need. I wish he would stay, but maybe Moser has told him he is trying to recruit over him and his spot isn't guaranteed. I hope that is the case in the direction Moser is going in trying to get longer, more athletic, quicker, and better shooters. If Jalen doesn't want to be a 7 or 8 guy, maybe it was a mutual decision, so to speak.

Let's just see if Moser can fill his wish and get better.

 

[TINY]

The Portal is just dumb right now. I get kids leaving small schools to play on a bigger stage. I get kids that aren't getting the minutes they want going to a lower level school to get those minutes.

But kids playing a lot of minutes on good teams leaving? Like Mark from Houston? Or Love from NC? THOSE are the types of transfers that leave me shaking my head. Even Hill from OU to some extent. I get that there might be reasons, and maybe some of them are legit, but those types of transfers are just hard to accept given that they traditionally haven't happened. Like, at all.

Yep, things like “culture” don’t mean much in the NIL era. “How much you offering?” That’s all that matters right now.

 

[skyvue]

Let's face it, if Hill and Tanner are our 2nd and 3rd best players, how many other lineups in the Big XII, SEC, B1G would they average 30-32 MPG? Would they be in the top 7-8 rotation at Texas, KU, Baylor, or KSU? Those answers tell you what you need to know about Jalen Hill and where we need to go moving forward.

If Hill were going to be a sophomore or even a junior next season, you might have a point. But he's a fifth-year senior--he in no way would hold back the team from "moving forward." Rather, as a gritty, tough-minded, defensive player with four years of Big 12 experience who also contributes offensively, he could have been a great leader for a very inexperienced team.

Whether he would be a starter at texas, KU, Baylor or KSU matters not one whit. He would have been a valuable contributor in many ways to the young, inexperienced and likely average-at-best team OU will very be fielding next season.

If Jalen doesn't want to be a 7 or 8 guy, maybe it was a mutual decision, so to speak.

The notion that Porter Moser will bring in enough talent to knock Hill down the 7th or 8th slot seems a major stretch. At worst, he would have been the back-up at the 4 and that would have only happened if Cooper proves to be a frosh phenom of major proportions. Even then, the two would surely have been splitting minutes.

 

[WichitaSooner]

The notion that Porter Moser will bring in enough talent to knock Hill down the 7th or 8th slot seems a major stretch. At worst, he would have been the back-up at the 4 and that would have only happened if Cooper proves to be a frosh phenom of major proportions. Even then, the two would surely have been splitting minutes.

The idea that we would have a roster with 6 or 7 guys ahead of Hill is laughable based off what we have seen in two seasons. Hill basically never came off the floor other than for foul trouble or a very short rest. It's also silly to suggest this was mutual. As others have noted, Moser loved Hill and there is no way he wanted him to leave.

 

[TINY]

Tanner groves game was significantly hamstrung having hill on the court. No one guarded hill on the 3 point line so his defender could clog the paint or double Tanner/Grant. Pretty much destroyed our pick and roll with Grant/Tanner having hill on the court. He is the primary reason why the 4 out 1 in offense didn’t work as well as we hoped.

 

[BCSooners]

Tanner groves game was significantly hamstrung having hill on the court. No one guarded hill on the 3 point line so his defender could clog the paint or double Tanner/Grant. Pretty much destroyed our pick and roll with Grant/Tanner having hill on the court. He is the primary reason why the 4 out 1 in offense didn’t work as well as we hoped.

Tanner Groves was hamstrung because he couldn't quit fouling or make a wide open 3.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Tanner Groves was hamstrung because he couldn't quit fouling or make a wide open 3.

The idea that he would have thrived rolling to the basket with better spacing is . . . interesting, to say the least. I can see it now -- he would have been throwing down oops left and right if only Jalen could make more threes.

 

[thebigabd]

If I remember correctly, Porter thought Jalen Hill was the best defensive player in the country... Unless he was full of crap, this isn't mutual.