Kendal Harris names top 5

[sperry]

By far the most important thing to do in recruiting is to get guys that will stay 4 years and work hard.


Guys like Ro Osby and Stephen Pledger are not all world talents, but as seniors they are going to be among the best players in the league. If we have a team full of quality players like that, we're going to have success even without a bunch of lottery picks.

 

[jmizzy4ou]

This Calvin Newell stuff is an absolute joke. Calvin could do one thing well: shoot without a conscious.

Shooting ability--Average
Shot Frequency--Kobesque
Ball Handling--Poor
Passing--Poor
Decision Making--Bad
Individual defense--Over aggressive
Team Defense--Out of position
Team Chemistry--Suspect

Calvin played sparingly on two crap teams and then transferred to an even crappier team, that's how great he was/is.

EXACTLY.......


Not a knock on Newell at all, but I just don't get all of the hype about his abilities. The guy could only dribble with one hand, had no court vision, and certainly cared little about Lon's or anyone else's team concept. He scored some points, but anyone could see his greatest challenge was/is playing under control, and within a system.

There are countless street ballers in every big city, that could/would light up a defense for 30 on any given night. Most don't make it past playground legend status, because simply shooting in volumes and finishing with 20 points doesn't make one a star, or even a good player. Newell reminded me of 1000's of kids I use to see daily on the playgrounds and in the gyms around DC, Maryland, and VA. They mass produce scorers, and then one solid kid with a complete game emerges and he gets the scholly offers, while the other kids argue over their playground legend status.

It would take me about 10 seconds to see Newell is not close to being the player Pledger is at this point. He doesn't believe that obviously, and that is probably why Pledger is starting his Sr yr, and CN is history........

 

[bgrch1350]

EXACTLY.......


Not a knock on Newell at all, but I just don't get all of the hype about his abilities. The guy could only dribble with one hand, had no court vision, and certainly cared little about Lon's or anyone else's team concept. He scored some points, but anyone could see his greatest challenge was/is playing under control, and within a system.

I guess Newell isn't going to get any better. Oh wait, he got a lot better from year one to year 2 and he has 2 years to get even better.

Season GP MPG PPG FG% 3FG% FT% APG RPG BPG SPG
2011-12 5 19.6 13.0 49.0 38.5 71.4 0.8 1.6 0.0 0.6
2010-11 31 12.5 3.5 40.7 27.1 63.2 1.5 1.1 0.1 0.4

 

[WTSooner]

You can't really compare stats from a 31 game season vs that of a 5 game season. 5 games is way to small of a sample size to use as proof of improvement.

 

[BigTime]

You can't really compare stats from a 31 game season vs that of a 5 game season. 5 games is way to small of a sample size to use as proof of improvement.

Yup. Leaving out a grueling Big 12 schedule just won't work in this case. I suspect his numbers would have gone down...

 

[skyvue]

Yup. Leaving out a grueling Big 12 schedule just won't work in this case. I suspect his numbers would have gone down...

They might well have. Or he might have continued to improve, to grow in confidence and savvy, and eventually have really found his groove.

There's no way to know what might have happened.

He was looking pretty darned good before his departure last year.

 

[bgrch1350]

You can't really compare stats from a 31 game season vs that of a 5 game season. 5 games is way to small of a sample size to use as proof of improvement.

Its not about comparing stats...its more about seeing that certain things had improved. He wasn't the best player...but he was showing that things had improved from year one to year 2.

Season GP MPG PPG FG% 3FG% FT% APG RPG BPG SPG
2011-12 30 32.9 16.2 45.9 41.6 83.3 1.6 3.9 0.2 1.0
2010-11 32 30.0 10.9 39.3 35.0 85.1 1.7 2.1 0.3 0.9
2009-10 30 18.9 6.2 37.3 33.8 84.6 0.6 1.5 0.2 0.4

Steven Pledger has shown improvement over the last 3 years...which makes me believe he will be better than last season. And nobody is taking away Pledgers minutes.

 

[jmizzy4ou]

Its not about comparing stats...its more about seeing that certain things had improved. He wasn't the best player...but he was showing that things had improved from year one to year 2.

Season GP MPG PPG FG% 3FG% FT% APG RPG BPG SPG
2011-12 30 32.9 16.2 45.9 41.6 83.3 1.6 3.9 0.2 1.0
2010-11 32 30.0 10.9 39.3 35.0 85.1 1.7 2.1 0.3 0.9
2009-10 30 18.9 6.2 37.3 33.8 84.6 0.6 1.5 0.2 0.4

Steven Pledger has shown improvement over the last 3 years...which makes me believe he will be better than last season. And nobody is taking away Pledgers minutes.

Which brings us back to why we are saying Newell wasn't going to steal Pledger's minutes....

 

[garyeb2]

Which brings us back to why we are saying Newell wasn't going to steal Pledger's minutes....

You seem to take somewhat of a cerebral approach to most of your positions. And that is certainly appreciated. As a matter of fact, your observation that Calvin had difficulty slowing down and playing within Kruger's system is probably exactly the thing that caused the ax to fall.

And then here you come with something so phony and disingenuous that I have to wonder if you even believe what you are saying. When either Abbot or Costello, I forget which, tried to explain why Calvin wasn't good enough to take minutes from Pledger by saying it was because Calvin had defensive flaws, was a poor ball handler, and weak passer. Well, that cann't be it, those are Pledger's shortcoming. If he could do those things he might be pretty good.

But, the topper, the easy winner, was your comment that Calvin couldn't cut it because he couldn't dribble with his left hand. You have got to be kidding either me or yourself. Pledger has spent three years here and he plays the game as if he has no left hand.

If you guys want to flail around trying to build a case that Calvin wasn't worthy, at least try to point out weaknesses that you perceive that don't exactly mirror those of Pledger. Geez, you would think that people with such strong opinions would come better prepared.

 

[WTSooner]

Gary, I think what has happened here is that after Pledger's 2nd season, you made some evaluations of him that were probably dead on. You didn't expect him to improve his game much last year, but that is exactly what happened. I'm not sure if you simply didn't notice that, or you are being hard-headed because of the stance you took with him the year before.

Either way, here are some "facts" about Pledger's junior season:

- He lead the team in minutes played.

- While he didn't play much more than he did as a soph, he did increase his shooting volume. And while increased shooting volume often leads to decreased shooting percentages, Pledger's actually improved. DRAMATICALLY. He went from 39% to 46% on regular FG's, and from 35% to 42% from three. That three point percentage, given our lack of offensive weapons and his volume, is actually really, really good.

- He also nearly doubled his rebounding output, going from 2.1 per game, to 3.9 per game.

- His assists, turnovers, and steals per game all stayed nearly even to his junior year. Not sure if that is good or bad, but they stayed consistent.

- I know you like to knock his individual defense, and I agree it isn't great, but his team defense last year was pretty darn good. While it's great to have quick feet, and to be able to pressure the ball and such, simply being in the right spot at the right time, and playing good team defense is much more important, IMO. I saw TONS of improvement out of Pledger in this regards.

- I would say 1.9 turnovers per game for a guy that handled much of the perimeter offense game by himself, and handled the ball as much as Pledger did, is pretty solid. It was fewer turnovers than Grooms, and about the same as Osby. As a comparison, it's right in line with what Hollis did as well while at OU.

I get that Pledger isn't the dynamic player that Hollis was, or that Eduardo or Corey Brewer were. Nobody has ever said he was. But take away that top tier of OU guards, and he is performing every bit as well as the other guards OU has had, and he's doing it with much less perimeter talent around him. Think about how poorly Grooms and Cam shot the ball last year. That only made things tougher on Pledger to score. Plug in average players at those two positions last year, and OU is probably Dancing, or pretty darn close to it. Improve those two positions AND add a sturdy bench? We'd certainly be improved.

If Pledger were so bad at all these little things, they'd show up in the stats somewhere. I don't see them in his individual stats, and I certainly don't place anywhere near all the blame on him for the bad teams stats. Plenty of that blame to pass around.

I don't know what the starting lineup will be next year. I don't know exactly where M'Baye will fit in, or how ready the frosh will be. But I do know this.....Pledger will start all season if he stays healthy, out of trouble, and producing anything like he did last year on offense. He will get his 30 minutes per game. Grooms and Cam are the players that need to be looking over their shoulders. Not our best offensive weapon.

 

[scrybe]

WT: Thanks for providing a sensible response to some of the outlandish things I keep reading here.

 

[garyeb2]

Thanks for being civil. But, we still don't agree. This I think is the source. Pledger has been a productive offensive player. Sometimes a very productive offensive player on bad teams. What I think you are seeing is the tallest midget. And I believe that you think you are seeing a giant.

Certainly Pledger has improved. Good coaching, hard work, and objective oriented practice is the proven formula for improvement. It works virtually everytime. But, in the context of Big 12 basketball. That type of improvement is meaningless. It would amount to something if the other conference teams got together and decided to take a long extended vacation until the start of next season so that our buddies at OU can catch up alittle.

But, they don't. They are well coached too. Their players work hard too. Our guys have to work hard and get better just to stay even. A young player or a slow developing big might make a bigger step forward than expected. But, for an older guard like Pledger, whatever recent improvements that have been made or those coming down the pike have to be expected to be marginal and incremental. At some point it is what you see is what you get.

It is my opinion that last years starters, rotation, and min. played were primarily a function of Kruger's options. Just as they would be in any year. Last year his options ranged from limited to zero. With much expanded options this season, I would fully expect starters,rotation, and min. played to look much different. Why wouldn't that be the reasonable expectation and position?

Basketball teams, within a range, have a limited number of offensive possesions. What the Coach decides to do with some of those opportunities has an impact on a players idividual stats. Last season, because Pledger is a good and accurate shooter, certainly the best, and I guess he was probably the only one. Kruger used him as our primary scoring option. Most inbound plays were set up to get Pledger the ball. They spent hours in pratice working on plays to get Pedger the ball with an open look. The plan was to get Pledger the ball and for him to score points. And he did. About 15 per game in conference play.

The season before was alittle different. Cade was a pretty good player and abit of a ball hog. There were lots of those limited number of possesions that Pledger never had the opportunity to be a good and accurate shooter. As a result, he was at about 10 pts. per.

What is next season going to look like. The last 4/5 games Kruger got Osby more involved in the offense. He responded well, got some buckets, and Pledger's numbers ticked down. Fewer opportunities. M'Baye can score. Because of his size, they may find times and matchups when he scores in bunches. If they can get Fitz an open look from 12/15, he can score. Even if only one of the freshmen comes ready to play, Heild And Cousins are both shooters and scorers. If it is one of them, they will get some looks to. All of that, ,within a range, a limited number of times on offense.

I believe that assets minus liabilities equalls net worth. If you want to say that last season Pledgers asset of being the leading scorer was more than enough to offset his liabiities and make him have some net worth. OK I'm in. That formula doesn't look so good, if, because of many more options, scoring becomes more balanced.


If Pledger's production goes down thru no fault of his own. It would be simply because other players have the ability and used some of the limited opportunities to do just that. Score. Then what?

I'm sorry WT. And I know you like to gloss over it. But, Pledger and Fitz are the weak links on defense. They are too slow to be good defenders in the Big 12. That won't change.

I believe scoring will be more balanced. And with that balance comes diminishing returns on Pledger. To be a good basketball team next year I think all they have to do is defend and rebound at a big boy level and get 10 pts. from the #2 guard. Whoever that is.

 

[bocabull]

Pledger deserves nothing but a tip of the cap for his constant improvement. He shot over 46% on a team full of holes which is admirable. He just needs some help which is slowly but surely arriving.

 

[Sam]

I'm curious Gary, do you believe that Pledger can be a starter and put up similar to numbers to last season on a NCAA tournament team this year?

Or for the Sooners to make the tournament, does Hield or Cousins or Hornbeak have to take his spot?

 

[garyeb2]

I'm curious Gary, do you believe that Pledger can be a starter and put up similar to numbers to last season on a NCAA tournament team this year?

Or for the Sooners to make the tournament, does Hield or Cousins or Hornbeak have to take his spot?

Yes Sam I do. It could work out just that way. What I have said in the past and I'll happily repeat.

OU can not be a good basketball team with Pledger and Fitz both starting and playing big min. OU can be a good team with either of them, but, not both.

When in man, Kruger runs what he calls a switch and help. Four good enough defenders can easily cover for a always half a step slow guy and play good team defense. When two half step slow guys are in there it just can not be done. When he went to a zone alot to try to cover that up, Then the half step slow guys couldn't close out on a 3 pt. shooter. It was a mess that resulted in OU having one of the worst statistical defenses in the conference. And one of the worst records in the conference. Funny how those two work together.

Kruger, when he came in here said that they were going to learn to defend and rebound first. Early on,Henson even said to me in one of those little chit chats that you sometimes get before practice that if we don't do anything else, we are going to defend. Sam, they didn't get that done. It is a really important thing to get done. And it didn't get done. I'm confident that it will get done this year.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't a coaching issue. It was a personel issue. It was easy to pick up on if you were watching for it. I sat there and said to myself several times, damn, these guys are just not going to be able to do that. And sure enough they couldn't. People can fault Kruger for asking players to do things they couldn't if they want to. But, he is the expert. OU teams in the future will runs the defenses that he wants to run and he wll have the type players he needs to do. The bunch he picked up from Capel needed to learn it and do the best they could. And he did drop into more zone than he ever had before.

If M'baye is the inside guy and Fitz is the big off the bench, then both Pledger and the team are in a good spot. If M'Baye goes to the wing, and Fitz starts, Then things get complicated for Pledger and defesive minded coaches. One of those freshmen guards needs to be good and be good right away.

It takes about a top 40 team to make the tourney. There has never been a top 40 team play defense as poorly as OU did last year. Both Pledger and Fitz are productive offensive players. But, I'm pretty confident that M'baye will replace either one of their production. And if either one of them have to go to the bench to shore up the defense, Kruger will do that without a second thought and in a blink of an eye. If has any options, he won't let that happen again.

So, yes again. Pledger could certainly be an imprtant part of a much improved OU team. But, by the same token, OU could be a much improved team and it worked out a different way.

 

[luckyc1423]

Yes Sam I do. It could work out just that way. What I have said in the past and I'll happily repeat.

OU can not be a good basketball team with Pledger and Fitz both starting and playing big min. OU can be a good team with either of them, but, not both.

When in man, Kruger runs what he calls a switch and help. Four good enough defenders can easily cover for a always half a step slow guy and play good team defense. When two half step slow guys are in there it just can not be done. When he went to a zone alot to try to cover that up, Then the half step slow guys couldn't close out on a 3 pt. shooter. It was a mess that resulted in OU having one of the worst statistical defenses in the conference. And one of the worst records in the conference. Funny how those two work together.

Kruger, when he came in here said that they were going to learn to defend and rebound first. Early on,Henson even said to me in one of those little chit chats that you sometimes get before practice that if we don't do anything else, we are going to defend. Sam, they didn't get that done. It is a really important thing to get done. And it didn't get done. I'm confident that it will get done this year.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't a coaching issue. It was a personel issue. It was easy to pick up on if you were watching for it. I sat there and said to myself several times, damn, these guys are just not going to be able to do that. And sure enough they couldn't. People can fault Kruger for asking players to do things they couldn't if they want to. But, he is the expert. OU teams in the future will runs the defenses that he wants to run and he wll have the type players he needs to do. The bunch he picked up from Capel needed to learn it and do the best they could. And he did drop into more zone than he ever had before.

If M'baye is the inside guy and Fitz is the big off the bench, then both Pledger and the team are in a good spot. If M'Baye goes to the wing, and Fitz starts, Then things get complicated for Pledger and defesive minded coaches. One of those freshmen guards needs to be good and be good right away.

It takes about a top 40 team to make the tourney. There has never been a top 40 team play defense as poorly as OU did last year. Both Pledger and Fitz are productive offensive players. But, I'm pretty confident that M'baye will replace either one of their production. And if either one of them have to go to the bench to shore up the defense, Kruger will do that without a second thought and in a blink of an eye. If has any options, he won't let that happen again.

So, yes again. Pledger could certainly be an imprtant part of a much improved OU team. But, by the same token, OU could be a much improved team and it worked out a different way.

I have said the same thing about a thousand times to and noone likes to hear it. Pledger and fitz are to slow of foot on defense. We are not the dallas mavericks of 4-5 years ago. We cannot go out and outscore our competition, we need to be able to play good defense.

I think pledger is fine if fitz isnt in the game, and vice versa. I personally would like to see us run a smaller lineup with fitz coming off the bench.

 

[luckyc1423]

I'm curious Gary, do you believe that Pledger can be a starter and put up similar to numbers to last season on a NCAA tournament team this year?

Or for the Sooners to make the tournament, does Hield or Cousins or Hornbeak have to take his spot?

I know im not gary but i will respond as well. I do believe pledger can be a starter on a ncaa tournament team. However, with both pledger and fitz starting together we wont make it out of the first round.

I think if we mix it up and bring one of the two off the bench that would help things out alot. I also think for us to make the tournamnet one of the three freshmen need to be consistent contributors. I dunno who they take their minutes from.

 

[boksooner]

I know im not gary but i will respond as well. I do believe pledger can be a starter on a ncaa tournament team. However, with both pledger and fitz starting together we wont make it out of the first round.

I think if we mix it up and bring one of the two off the bench that would help things out alot. I also think for us to make the tournamnet one of the three freshmen need to be consistent contributors. I dunno who they take their minutes from.

I think a line-up with Fitz as the first guy off the bench would be huge. He could provide scoring punch to the second unit, plus foul trouble would be less of an issue. That also allows you to get your three most athletic guys (M'Baye, Osby and Clark) on the court together to start the game. That type of inside presence and athleticism could provide many more open looks for Pledger on the wing and cover up any defensive deficiencies. If Grooms could hit a respectable % from outside, that would be a quality starting five on offense and defense.

All the above is predicated on M'Baye being close to as good as those who have seen him practice say he is.

 

[luckyc1423]

I think a line-up with Fitz as the first guy off the bench would be huge. He could provide scoring punch to the second unit, plus foul trouble would be less of an issue. That also allows you to get your three most athletic guys (M'Baye, Osby and Clark) on the court together to start the game. That type of inside presence and athleticism could provide many more open looks for Pledger on the wing and cover up any defensive deficiencies. If Grooms could hit a respectable % from outside, that would be a quality starting five on offense and defense.

All the above is predicated on M'Baye being close to as good as those who have seen him practice say he is.

spot on, exactly my thoughts. you limit fitz minutes and i think he will be just as productive. limit his liabilities on defense while still giving him scoring oppertunities.

 

[WTSooner]

Doesn't matter if Fitz starts or not, he is going to play "starter" minutes, and he is going to play alongside Pledger for most of them. This isn't the NBA where the second unit plays together, and guys come out of games at certain points, regardless of the score/situation.

Time will tell. I think we can definitely make the Dance with those two guys playing a lot. Heck, we could have made it last year had Newell stuck around, and Cam shot even as well as he did as a freshman.

There are 80 minutes per game at the 4/5 spots. Fitz averaged 28 minutes per game last year. I don't see that dropping much below 25 this year. Are those 3 minutes of not being on the court, possibly with, possibly without Pledger, really going to make that much of a difference?