Kentucky, 12/1, Thursday

I normally agree w you syb. but not here..

Gioya is bigger faster stronger than dungee w/ more exp. She is the better player right now. Though Gioya does have a tendency to make some mistakes...

What i have noticed is though, some of Gioyas better games really take the ball out of Maddies hands. And while we need Gioya to be there to score and hit big shots, while being a very physical attacker- Maddie makes the right play almost all the time. Who is more valuable offensively? I am still not sure, and that is a problem. Maddie opens the door for Gioya because she can be so passive, otherwise I would say her ability to make everybody better while also having the ability, the skill set, and versatility to be one the top scorers is as valuable as any player around. Gioya on the other hand is physical and aggressive, and can shoot when she's hot, we have also seen her dominate the conference w/ pure scoring ability and a extreme confidence- but She definitely makes bad decisions, shoots really early in shot clocks, not looking to involve others most of the time and it definitely feels like its more her taking away from others, than anyone ever taking away from her. So the only answer I have is, who is ready to step up and be that player that can average 15-18 a game consistently, while cutting down on mistakes? We need that or were not going anywhere.

Peyton fits seamlessly w/ ether of the two, she happily takes wide open kicks, and also catches defenders off guard for a layup, I hardly even notice when she scores most of the time.
Vivi obviouly relies on whoever will throw her the ball as well as playing against a defense that won't completely pack the middle.

Its the Maddie-Gioya clashing (of skill sets) that might hold us back from finding our identity in the near future. But we shall see. Maybe if Maddie can get more aggressive at all times and Gioya looks to slow down and involve others more we can hit a nice happy medium that involves both and because then we could really take off. We shall see.
I appreciate disagreement when it is so cogently stated.

Right now, my key starters are Vivi, Peyton, and Maddie. They do more than just shoot. Their all-around game is significant.

I tend to watch a game about three times within two days, probably a time or two later. I know what the box indicates. I'm looking to see what is actually going on. When we make a run to take control of a game, what happens? When we get into trouble, what is the most effective way to get out of it.

It is interesting if you contrast the Kentucky and Colorado State games. CSU killed us from outside. But, we had a better inside game. We also hit some threes. When we finally broke it open, it was Maddie hitting two-pointers that provided the surge. She took over the short game.

Against Kentucky, we lived and died by the three. We didn't really give the post game much of a chance, even when we had both of their posts on the bench. We were still shooting threes because they left us open and surrounded Vivi or EJ. Vivi and EJ don't know what to do if they are surrounded or get the ball more than about five feet from the rim. We don't seem to have a secondary option like having someone crash the other side of the lane if they are surrounded. Often, they surround them, and their outlet passes are stolen. We never had anyone develop the two-point game.

Kentucky hits some threes. But, Epps' two-pointers kept them in it. In the second half, Vivi missed some cripples that we set up for her, and they began hitting threes. Everyone else on the Kentucky team began to play well. We left them wide open.

But, to the Gioya/Dungee thing. I think that Gioya would be better as a sixth man, used much the same way that Sherri was using T'Ona, to get a charge or energy. She can score quickly. The problem is that she is not a good passer, rarely makes good decisions, and plays rather poor defense. She also commits turnovers off of lazy passes, my pet peeve. If you watch her under the boards, she is always there. But, she seems never to block anyone out. Often,, you see her standing right there for the rebound, and someone comes from ten feet away to take it from her. She isn't active at going after the ball. I see Gioya as a liability to the flow of the offense. She can score. But, she doesn't help the rest of it. We were just standing around hitting threes in the first half. Doesn't work.

Dungee seems to play better defense. I think she is about an inch taller, maybe two. She also seems to have more potential. She is not yet a rebounder for some strange reason. But, the game seems to flow with her on the court. With Peyton, Vivi, Maddie, Chelsea, and T'Ona, we flowed well against CSU. I still have reservations about T'Ona in a set. I prefer having Gabbi in the game. She may be in a shooting slump, but T'Ona is in a permanent shooting slump. I like the flow that Gabbi has.

Maddie had a bad game, pure and simple. I thought her post-game comments after the CSU game trended to scoring early rather than waiting until the third quarter. We do quite well if Maddie scores at least five in the first quarter. It seems to create a flow and get everyone involved. But, we just don't play well with Maddie on the bench. We don't have five players who can coordinate anything.
 
Look, I'v never thought Maddie was going to be the savior some on her have. However, she can be a tremendous player, when she doesn't retreat into a shell. Let's give her a couple of more games. Let's see if she plays like she did before Kentucky or at Kentucky. Then, make our final opinions known.

Right now, I think I'd go to a true 4-guard lineup (I know, this is a big departure for me). I'd go Vivi, Dungee, Little, Edwards and Rich when she gets integrated. My second unit would be EJ, Manning, Ortiz, Carter and Williams. Rotate as you go, stay with the hot players. Fit Mulkey in for rest for Vivi and EJ.

Maybe, like Gabbi, Maddie would be better coming off the bench.

I think we have a chance to be better than we've been in a long time. I do think our choir girls need to toughen up, show some attitude and be dashing and swashbuckling.

I like what you say here.

It's hard to win when you have no idea who is coming to play. Showing up on Monday and disappearing on Tuesday makes for a confused and uncertain Wednesday.

I wish we had a quality option at the four position because I wouldn't mind seeing Maddie off the bench ... or let her play the point some as has stated that she first likes to get others involved. If they play her with a small guard, have her post. If they play her with a bigger player, she can blow past the slower defender. I love her skill set, but it fails to help us unless she's impactful to the action.

Also, we miss that player who brings the competitive edge and tough disposition to the team. Amanda Thompson, Joanna McFarland, Leah Rush, Sharane Campbell ... I wont be greedy and ask for her talent & skill set, but I'd love to have someone with the Stacey Dales mentality. We need the person who refuses to lose and tells the opposition "you wont get away with that tonight and this game is mine." I thought Epps took over the game mentally and physically and we never really countered her assertively. If we have a different approach emotionally, I think we win last night.
 
Vivi
18-14-9-13-3-15
Peyton
4-17-16-17-9-19
Gioya
16-6-9-7-X-18
Maddie
4-9-11-15-16-0
Gabbi
6-6-4-3-8-1

These are the number of points scored in each game by our starters. Peyton and Vivi have each had four double-digit games. Maddie has had three. Gioya has had two. Gabbi--zero.

We have players who are inconsistent. Most teams do. The idea is to have a spread of scoring so that you can overcome a bad game by an individual. When Gioya missed a game, Chelsea scored ten. She scored twelve last night.
 
Vivi
18-14-9-13-3-15
Peyton
4-17-16-17-9-19
Gioya
16-6-9-7-X-18
Maddie
4-9-11-15-16-0
Gabbi
6-6-4-3-8-1

These are the number of points scored in each game by our starters. Peyton and Vivi have each had four double-digit games. Maddie has had three. Gioya has had two. Gabbi--zero.

We have players who are inconsistent. Most teams do. The idea is to have a spread of scoring so that you can overcome a bad game by an individual. When Gioya missed a game, Chelsea scored ten. She scored twelve last night.

I see your point. Gioya makes mistakes, but to be fair Maddie did have four turnovers as well... Maddie could still be a Dales type of player and it could happen this year. She shoots w/ way more confidence this season and she seems to be figuring it out. But she needs to quit making her mistakes as well...

However, you are correct in saying Gioya's game is very reckless, and is very feast or famine on per pocession basis. She could be as good as Mikayla Epps, she is that athletic- but she doesn't have near the skill set that Epps has developed- I saw some unbelievable footwork from her, and different types of shots that you rarely see from a college player. But, imo Dungee is still too raw to have that pressure on her- so you might as well bring her in, keep the pressure off and let her grow that way. She is more developed than Gioya at this stage, just a little less explosive, but attacks w/ the same aggressiveness. She will be a good player, but it's a little too early imo. You might lose Gioya mentally too if she has to come off the bench for a freshman....

I actually think that we could be better next year if Maddie stays. Though, we won't have anybody to guard a quick point guard (atleast it doesn't appear so), but thats all we will be missing... So the next two years could be great. I still hope Maddie can fulfill her potential- I think that Sherri really held her back that sophmore season, and its hard to say that was wrong- but I think if she plays that season, she does what she is doing this year- last year. And we have a star this season. She has only had one full season as a starter, and games w/ that role are important. But thats assuming she wouldn't of got hurt again so atleast she is healthy.

I believe this last game for Maddie is more related to how we use her against a zone though, as opposed to an actual trend downwards. I think she continues to ascend, and hopefully can become a top tier player. Time will tell. If she never does though, Maddie is a great role player and her defense, and passing ability- especially w/ Vivi down-low 100% warrant her starting and playing 30-35 mins. Opposing coaches always talk about the the 1-3-1 trap after the game and how they will beat us on that. She is the only reason that is difficult. She is also the smartest player, as the players voted unanimously- so even if she doesn't have 15 a game, she is a starter that we need.
 
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We really need for Maddie to return for a year. By now, she may wish to move on.

We graduate T'Ona, Peyton, Gioya, Derica, and Shaya, as well as, potentially, Maddie. But, next year, we will have:

Posts: Vivi, EJ, Nancy
Forwards: McKenna and Mandy Simpson
Guards: LaNesia, Gileysa, Chelsea, Morgan Rich, and Ana Llanusa
Point guards: Gabbi and Shaina Pellington

We are rather thin inside next year, and we could use some experience.
 
I think the problem is mindset as we have plenty of talent. We need players with Stacy Dales mindset, Caton Hill mindset, Phylesha Whaley mindset, Leah Rush mindset, Courtney Paris mindset and Danielle Robinson mindset. Unfortunately, I don't think it's something you teach, or even learn. These players were going to do whatever they needed to do to win. We've seen so many times almost every player on our roster has breakout games, so we know it can be done. I think they are better than they've been in the last few years but last night was a very winnable game. I'd argue we had better overall talent. They just don't have that killer instinct which the players listed above had. I think they will improve over the season but will be limited in big games by their tough mindset, or lack thereof. Epps had that mindset, she wasn't going to let her team be denied, even though I don't believe KY was as talented overall as we were. It is what it is.
 
I thought Maddie had that mindset. I have seen her get a bit irritated, and she did yank a ball away last night. I don't know how much of her deferential mindset towards the team is her attitude and how much is coached into her as a floor general. Occasionally, she just takes over games with steals, blocks, etc. I don't know what the switch is that turns that on.
 
About a 9 or 10th seed in big dance. Not much hope for a change in OU women's basketball until someone can start bringing in girls who can actually play BB. We get to many projects or marginal players i.e.; Kelloge, Treece, Williams, Penzo, Wyatt.
 
Next year the team will have an athletic upgrade on the wings with both Dungee and Llanusa... Carter has been doing her best over the years but she doesn't offer the size and scoring ability that Llanusa will have vs the defender. If Rich can come out the gate fast, maybe she can challenge Ortiz for the starting point guard spot giving us height at the position.

Basted off what Lobe was saying it sounds like Sherri isn't using Mulkey right... she doesn't have the strength to bang inside right now, she couldn't hold her position vs Epps and the team couldn't get her the ball, something the team needs to work on moving forward. Sherri should try playing Mulkey in the high post more facing the basket vs back to the basket down low, she seems to have great touch on her shot and can move down the court pretty fast for a player her size... she could be used similar to kristaps porzingis of the New York Knicks at her size she could shot over most players... and still defend down low. Maybe Sherri could try a line up of Edwards, Little, Manning, Mulkey, and ViVi..
 
Who in the world is Lobe and why does he think Mulkey was on Epps? They had a couple of times when the posts were out that Epps was pretending to be a post, but she wasn't pushing anyone around, although trying. Epps was facing Gioya for the most part.
 
I'm pretty sure he was talking about Rebecca Lobo, but just fouled up the spelling. She did say a bit about Nancy - but I didn't pick up on her saying Sherri didn't know what she was doing in her player management and coaching.

Of course, Lobo was also having a hard time avoiding partiality. As an example, when Akhator picked up her 3rd foul, she was inside the arc - a foul by rule - but Lobo kept saying it was a bad call. First she tried to claim she was going straight up, then claimed it was incidental contact, etc. In truth, what it actually was - was a foul - just as called.

I do agree with some of Mac's point though. Nancy needs to be on the court much more than 3 minutes. She will never develop without some playing time. And if we are afraid to remove Vivi/EJ, then put Nancy at the high post or a wing. Let her learn and develop.

We cannot consistently win without good inside play - meaning hitting easy layups under the basket - and blocking out for rebounds.
 
Yes I mean Lobo... and she said that OU doesn't have a team captain so the team does some type of shootout to see who will meet at half court with the Referees and that Mulkey has won the last 3... No she didn't say Sherri wasn't using her right, I said that and I do feel like she should try having Mulkey facing the basket on offense even if she's 6'9... Anyone who thinks she was able to post up on Epps effectively wasn't watching the right game... also Lobo is one of the best commentators ESPN has, she had a lot of great things to say about both teams, can't see how anyone would think she was favoring Kentucky.
 
I think both of them do a lot of SEC games so they probably do have some bias. Not a problem. Our broadcasters do as well.

I watched my recording and stopped and reran.

We had two very significant stretches where we lost the game.

The first was when Kentucky had their two centers on the bench with two fouls with over 9 minutes left in the second quarter. The Sooners immediately put up a long trey with 6 seconds off the clock and another one in the next possession with 13 second off the clock. Mulkey was in the game 3 of the 9 minutes and she has no inside game. We went inside only three times in the 9 minutes; once to Mulkey, once from Maddie from the high post to ViVi for a layup and once to ViVi who passed to Dungee for a wide open trey. By the way, other than badly missing two wide open layups ViVi had a pretty good game even against a packed in zone.

The second was a 20-6 run by Kentucky in the 3rd and 4th quarter. We had 6 turnovers, went 0-5 behind the arc and put up at least 4 bad shots.

Kentucky shreded our zone defenses all game with the middle wide open on the 2-1-2 and poor baseline coverage on the 1-3-1 trap. Basically no help defense in the man or zone and Epps took big advantage of that. Epps pretty much abused Carter most of the night.

Kentucky also went coast to coast for scores and fouls at least 4 times with no one attempting to stop the ball.

I think we are clearly a better team than last year. Geno tells his players to be better than the limits they place on themselves. These ladies need to decide if they are going to be up and down for another 20 win season and an early exit from the NCAA or if they are going to quit making bad decisions and foolish mistakes and become as good as the skills and talent they bring to the party.

Some say we don't have good players. You see too many good things they do to buy that. The talent is there. They just have to start thinking bigger than they are thinking now.
 
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I think we are clearly a better team than last year. Geno tells his players to be better than the limits they place on themselves. These ladies need to decide if they are going to be up and down for another 20 win season and an early exit from the NCAA or if they are going to quit making bad decisions and foolish mistakes and become as good as the skills and talent they bring to the party.

Some say we don't have good players. You see too many good things they do to buy that. The talent is there. They just have to start thinking bigger than they are thinking now.

+1
 
I agree with most of your assessment of how we let Kentucky pull away. I think we put up two successive three point attempts rather quickly when we had them on the bench. We made no attempt to exploit the absence of their two posts, no matter who was in the game. We have made no attempt thus far to involve Nancy in the offense, maybe a pick and roll which seems to be a called play.

I thought (maybe not) that Maddie had taken over the leadership role. Sherri mentioned it in the post-game after CSU. Maddie mentioned that she needed to make her scoring runs at the first part of the game. But, this was the most passive game that Maddie has played this year, by far. Maddie has at least some of the right temperament, if she'll use it. Is she trying to be a pal that includes everyone?

I would rather have Dungee on the floor, for defensive purposes if no other. I thought she missed more. Wonder if they count both shots on her two putback attempts? She and EJ had really bad nights at the line, 3-9. They are better than that. But, they missed four when the game was close that could have given us a little lead.

Gabbi's shooting slump is hurting us. Look back at her career, and it was all better.

The stats say that Vivi missed five shots, a fairly high number for her.
 
Gabby is not going to get out of her slump shooting 25 foot treys and laups under pressure.

I am a little suprised that they have not done much on offense with Nancy. I sort of expected to see her on the high post where she could turn and shoot over most people guarding her or hit ViVi down low.
 
Gabby is not going to get out of her slump shooting 25 foot treys and laups under pressure.

I am a little suprised that they have not done much on offense with Nancy. I sort of expected to see her on the high post where she could turn and shoot over most people guarding her or hit ViVi down low.

This is how I would try using her... Also playing Manning at the 3 could allow her some post up opportunities.
 
If I understood Sherri properly, she indicated that they had limited time to work with Nancy because of the severity of her ankle injury, the worst something-or-other injury that she had seen. They have to start from scratch on working her into an offense that would take advantage of her. You notice that some early entry passes to her were very poor and didn't take advantage of her height. we have also seen her move to the rim, with no pass forthcoming.

I think there may have been a plan to use her defensively at first. She becomes a threat simply by being in the lane.

The problem with Maddie at the three right now is that we have nobody else at the four. Shaya and McKenna never stepped up. I could see a high/low with Maddie and Nancy, either way.
 
Starters:

5-10 Sr G Makayla Epps 17.17 Pts,, 5.17 assists
6-3 Sr F Evelyn Akhator 16.83 Pts, 11.67 reb
6-0 Soph G Maci Morris 10.83 Pts
5-6 Soph G Taylor Murray 10.83 Pts, 4.86 reb
6-3 Jr C Alyssa Rice 5.33 Pts, 5.33 reb

Top two bench

6-1 Jr G Mackenzie Cann 9.63 Pts, 4.50 reb
5-8 Sr G Jessica Hardin 5.33 Pts

You laughed at me and called me a troll for telling you the truth about what was coming. From here on out can you just trust my judgement, because I do watch more than school ball games.
 
You laughed at me and called me a troll for telling you the truth about what was coming. From here on out can you just trust my judgement, because I do watch more than school ball games.

And, I am still in absolute contempt of you. I don't know how Kentucky pertains to you.
 
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