SoonerTraveler
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2008
- Messages
- 6,642
- Reaction score
- 29
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/coll...cle_255fec53-d945-5a8c-9903-b10c7736a79b.html
KU's Self ready to move on without Mizzou
BY VAHE GREGORIAN •
Posted: Thursday, February 23, 2012 12:45 am
LAWRENCE, Kan. • As personal as the Missouri-Kansas rivalry has become through its Civil War roots and century-plus of athletics clashes, Kansas' rationale for dousing MU's wish to extend it after Missouri deserts the Big 12 isn't personal at all. "Like, Frank Haith. Hey, unbelievable job. He's a good guy. I've known Frank a long time. We're not buddies, but certainly I talk to him every chance we get," Kansas coach Bill Self said in his office Monday. "This isn't anything about Frank. And it's certainly not anything to do about Kim English or Michael Dixon or Phil Pressey or Ricardo Ratliffe. Or Marcus Denmon.
"Hey, those guys have our respect. And to be honest with you, they seem to me like they're really good kids. ... But their administration, with the support of whoever, made the decision. And they knew when they made the decision that this was going to be something that could affect the future of the relationship."
Never mind, then, that Self values MU-Kansas and considered this season's first game between them Feb. 4 in Columbia 'special" even though Kansas lost 74-71. And never mind that Self has no quibble with the decision itself. "Everybody deserves the right to do what is best for them. Everybody deserves that," Self said. "So if Missouri makes a decision that's best for them, hey, I don't have one problem with them making that decision that's best for the University of Missouri. Zero. But it does change the way it was. Bottom line, it changes the way it was."
Because Kansas considers the context and basis of the rivalry fundamentally changed, the school's bottom line means that the series will die after the third-ranked Tigers' game Saturday at No. 4 Kansas, the 267th between them in men's basketball. Among schools in the six major conferences, only Kansas and Kansas State have been playing each other as often — since 1907. Mizzou and Kansas could meet again in the Big 12 tournament, of course, as well as in the NCAA Tournament. And Self won't use the word "never" about what's to come.
But Kansas won't schedule Mizzou in the foreseeable future, a decision it casts as a practical response to MU's move to the Southeastern Conference. "They're moving forward. That's their future. Their future is not looking back. Or hanging on to something that was," Self said. "Their future is going forward. And you know what? So is ours. It's nothing negative. It's just business."
Kansas' prime business, athletics director Sheahon Zenger said, has to be to thrust its energies into preserving and enhancing the Big 12 after "actions by some schools ... endangered" the league. "Kansas just needs some time to breathe," Zenger said.
As for the future? "I would tell you right now just to take a step back and enjoy it for what it is in the moment," Zenger said. "History is made one chapter at a time, and this is one chapter. I'm very careful not to speak for those who went before us or those who will follow us. But we're living out our chapter as we speak."
Self has heard the arguments for playing on, particularly those framed in terms of what fans might want. "People can get hung up on, 'Well, don't the fans deserve this or that?' You know what? Whose fans?" he said. "I haven't had one KU person, not one, send me an email or a letter or tell me we should play Missouri. Not one. And I've gotten numerous ones that said we should not."
While Self said he appreciated nice letters from Mizzou fans saying they hoped he'd reconsider, he added, "So I'm going to make a decision to try to make Mizzou fans happy? I mean, I'm not doing that. ... I don't see any reason to play anybody to help them. I think the reason you play somebody is to help us."
One reason he's resistant is because no scenario to play seems appropriate. "We're going to go home-and-home every other year? We're going to play in Kansas City?" he said. "That ain't the same as it has been. It's not the same."
As the former coach at Illinois, Self is familiar with the possibilities of a neutral-court series with MU. He's heard Mizzou's points about other nonconference rivalries flourishing, such as Louisville-Kentucky and Clemson-South Carolina.
"To me, we've got to beat them to win the league. That game carries league significance. That's what makes that game so important. Playing them once a year? I personally don't feel the significance of it as much," he said. "The other thing is, Kentucky plays Louisville every year. Well, they've always played them every year (out of league). That's all they know. So if Wake Forest leaves the ACC, are (North) Carolina and Duke going to feel obligated to still play them? ... Texas and (Texas) A&M, I don't think they're going to play each other. And they're even in the same state. Even though we're huge rivals, we're only 2 1/2 hours apart, I mean, it's not like our state is divided. Our state is pro-KU, their state is pro-MU." He added, "We're starting from scratch now."
But first ending with a bang, regardless of whether Kansas loses to MU at Allen Fieldhouse for the first time since 1999. "Hey, (105) years or one year, we've had our fair share of success against Missouri," Self said, smiling. Kansas leads the series 171-95, but this one may well be the most meaningful of all considering the finality and the teams being 1-2 in the Big 12 race.
"I would anticipate an atmosphere that would be second to none as far as Allen Fieldhouse's atmospheres over the past ... at least since I've been here," Self said. "But our players aren't going to think about this is the last time we're playing Missouri. ... It's 'Hey, we've got to beat Missouri — the 2012 version.'" The last version that definitely will appear here.
"Hey, they're going on to their bigger and better things, but when they chose to do that, that means they're leaving behind Kansas," Self said. "And K-State. And Iowa State, or whoever else. I guarantee you they don't feel any different than I do."
Not that it's personal. At least not any more. Just one business responding to another. "I would think Missouri should put all of (its) efforts into marketing their new rivals," he said. "I mean, seriously: I would think that Missouri's marketing plan would be to find a way to market their new rivals — as opposed to trying to hang on to an old one."
:OUbball-logo:
KU's Self ready to move on without Mizzou
BY VAHE GREGORIAN •
Posted: Thursday, February 23, 2012 12:45 am
LAWRENCE, Kan. • As personal as the Missouri-Kansas rivalry has become through its Civil War roots and century-plus of athletics clashes, Kansas' rationale for dousing MU's wish to extend it after Missouri deserts the Big 12 isn't personal at all. "Like, Frank Haith. Hey, unbelievable job. He's a good guy. I've known Frank a long time. We're not buddies, but certainly I talk to him every chance we get," Kansas coach Bill Self said in his office Monday. "This isn't anything about Frank. And it's certainly not anything to do about Kim English or Michael Dixon or Phil Pressey or Ricardo Ratliffe. Or Marcus Denmon.
"Hey, those guys have our respect. And to be honest with you, they seem to me like they're really good kids. ... But their administration, with the support of whoever, made the decision. And they knew when they made the decision that this was going to be something that could affect the future of the relationship."
Never mind, then, that Self values MU-Kansas and considered this season's first game between them Feb. 4 in Columbia 'special" even though Kansas lost 74-71. And never mind that Self has no quibble with the decision itself. "Everybody deserves the right to do what is best for them. Everybody deserves that," Self said. "So if Missouri makes a decision that's best for them, hey, I don't have one problem with them making that decision that's best for the University of Missouri. Zero. But it does change the way it was. Bottom line, it changes the way it was."
Because Kansas considers the context and basis of the rivalry fundamentally changed, the school's bottom line means that the series will die after the third-ranked Tigers' game Saturday at No. 4 Kansas, the 267th between them in men's basketball. Among schools in the six major conferences, only Kansas and Kansas State have been playing each other as often — since 1907. Mizzou and Kansas could meet again in the Big 12 tournament, of course, as well as in the NCAA Tournament. And Self won't use the word "never" about what's to come.
But Kansas won't schedule Mizzou in the foreseeable future, a decision it casts as a practical response to MU's move to the Southeastern Conference. "They're moving forward. That's their future. Their future is not looking back. Or hanging on to something that was," Self said. "Their future is going forward. And you know what? So is ours. It's nothing negative. It's just business."
Kansas' prime business, athletics director Sheahon Zenger said, has to be to thrust its energies into preserving and enhancing the Big 12 after "actions by some schools ... endangered" the league. "Kansas just needs some time to breathe," Zenger said.
As for the future? "I would tell you right now just to take a step back and enjoy it for what it is in the moment," Zenger said. "History is made one chapter at a time, and this is one chapter. I'm very careful not to speak for those who went before us or those who will follow us. But we're living out our chapter as we speak."
Self has heard the arguments for playing on, particularly those framed in terms of what fans might want. "People can get hung up on, 'Well, don't the fans deserve this or that?' You know what? Whose fans?" he said. "I haven't had one KU person, not one, send me an email or a letter or tell me we should play Missouri. Not one. And I've gotten numerous ones that said we should not."
While Self said he appreciated nice letters from Mizzou fans saying they hoped he'd reconsider, he added, "So I'm going to make a decision to try to make Mizzou fans happy? I mean, I'm not doing that. ... I don't see any reason to play anybody to help them. I think the reason you play somebody is to help us."
One reason he's resistant is because no scenario to play seems appropriate. "We're going to go home-and-home every other year? We're going to play in Kansas City?" he said. "That ain't the same as it has been. It's not the same."
As the former coach at Illinois, Self is familiar with the possibilities of a neutral-court series with MU. He's heard Mizzou's points about other nonconference rivalries flourishing, such as Louisville-Kentucky and Clemson-South Carolina.
"To me, we've got to beat them to win the league. That game carries league significance. That's what makes that game so important. Playing them once a year? I personally don't feel the significance of it as much," he said. "The other thing is, Kentucky plays Louisville every year. Well, they've always played them every year (out of league). That's all they know. So if Wake Forest leaves the ACC, are (North) Carolina and Duke going to feel obligated to still play them? ... Texas and (Texas) A&M, I don't think they're going to play each other. And they're even in the same state. Even though we're huge rivals, we're only 2 1/2 hours apart, I mean, it's not like our state is divided. Our state is pro-KU, their state is pro-MU." He added, "We're starting from scratch now."
But first ending with a bang, regardless of whether Kansas loses to MU at Allen Fieldhouse for the first time since 1999. "Hey, (105) years or one year, we've had our fair share of success against Missouri," Self said, smiling. Kansas leads the series 171-95, but this one may well be the most meaningful of all considering the finality and the teams being 1-2 in the Big 12 race.
"I would anticipate an atmosphere that would be second to none as far as Allen Fieldhouse's atmospheres over the past ... at least since I've been here," Self said. "But our players aren't going to think about this is the last time we're playing Missouri. ... It's 'Hey, we've got to beat Missouri — the 2012 version.'" The last version that definitely will appear here.
"Hey, they're going on to their bigger and better things, but when they chose to do that, that means they're leaving behind Kansas," Self said. "And K-State. And Iowa State, or whoever else. I guarantee you they don't feel any different than I do."
Not that it's personal. At least not any more. Just one business responding to another. "I would think Missouri should put all of (its) efforts into marketing their new rivals," he said. "I mean, seriously: I would think that Missouri's marketing plan would be to find a way to market their new rivals — as opposed to trying to hang on to an old one."
:OUbball-logo:
