Mass exodus at Texas Tech. Entire new starting 5.

[scrybe]

Comparing in depth only.

Gillispie didn't need to sign a bunch of guys he had no intention of keeping just to field a team. They had enough guys to play games. It might actually require him to get creative every now and then, but it's definitely doable.

Again, they only won eight games. The worst-case scenario wasn't much worse. If he didn't plan on using those guys past the first year, he never should have signed them.

That said, I've never been a fan of Gillispie's. He's never had to build a program himself, and his early signings at TT suggest he may not really know how.

Sawyer, your thoughtful (and accurate) analysis really caught me by surprise. Nothing against you personally, I just didn't realize there were Missouri fans out there who are capable of rational thinking. :ez-laugh: (Hope you realize I'm kidding).

Anyway, it's good to know there are other posters out there who are not enamored with Billy Clyde – the man AND the coach. I'm certainly glad BG wound up at Tech and not at OU.

 

[campbest]

In my opinion Tech is doing a horrible job of carrying out its primary mission of buidling future leaders. Universities should be teaching kids how to think, ethics, values, etc. At Tech they are sending the wrong message to kids. They get upset with Leach and fire him. Then they worm out the contract based on governmental immunity. Really! The University wants to send a message that it can and will sign contracts but only honor those that it likes. That is a horrible example for the students.

Then they fire Pat Knight and hire Billy G. They sign a bunch of kids only to run them off. Tech and all schools should honor scholarships for kids that work hard and follow the rules even if it turns out they are not as good as the coaches thought. Leading by example is more important than wins and losses. I truly hope OU never becomes a school that runs off kids simply because the University made a recruiting mistake. I have zero problem with kids being dismissed from the team for violating rules but I never want to see a kid like Retzov dismissed simply because he might not be the best basketball player. (I use Retzov as an example because he never played meaningful minutes but by all accounts worked hard, was a good student and did what was asked of him. In a case like that OU and all universities should honor scholarships.)

Retzov also played in a time when more scholarships were allowed.

 

[Sawyer]

In my opinion Tech is doing a horrible job of carrying out its primary mission of buidling future leaders. Universities should be teaching kids how to think, ethics, values, etc. At Tech they are sending the wrong message to kids. They get upset with Leach and fire him. Then they worm out the contract based on governmental immunity. Really! The University wants to send a message that it can and will sign contracts but only honor those that it likes. That is a horrible example for the students.

Then they fire Pat Knight and hire Billy G. They sign a bunch of kids only to run them off. Tech and all schools should honor scholarships for kids that work hard and follow the rules even if it turns out they are not as good as the coaches thought. Leading by example is more important than wins and losses. I truly hope OU never becomes a school that runs off kids simply because the University made a recruiting mistake. I have zero problem with kids being dismissed from the team for violating rules but I never want to see a kid like Retzov dismissed simply because he might not be the best basketball player. (I use Retzov as an example because he never played meaningful minutes but by all accounts worked hard, was a good student and did what was asked of him. In a case like that OU and all universities should honor scholarships.)

Agree on honoring scholarships of kids despite their athletic ability. As long as they work hard in their sport and in the classroom, don't break the law and follow all other team rules and expectations, they should keep the scholarship until they graduate. Pushing a good kid out because he's not a good player is weak, and it's not something I'd ever support my team's coach doing.

 

[thebigabd]

All those guys suck. Aren't they suppose to get Wanna Bail?

Yes, they got Wannah Bail and he says he is qualified.

 

[HoHum]

I know if I were a coach, and my livelihood depended almost entirely on wins, and not on the school looking 'fair' when it comes to scholarships, I would dump players so quick it would make their head spin, if I could get a better player to replace him.

Sure, it would be great if a hard-working player, who is a shining example of a student-athlete could stay at a school for four years, but I wouldn't want to get fired because my roster has 4 of them, either. Even if I was the one who messed up and offered the a scholarship.

 

[AdaSooner]

Sawyer, your thoughtful (and accurate) analysis really caught me by surprise. Nothing against you personally, I just didn't realize there were Missouri fans out there who are capable of rational thinking. :ez-laugh: (Hope you realize I'm kidding).

Anyway, it's good to know there are other posters out there who are not enamored with Billy Clyde – the man AND the coach. I'm certainly glad BG wound up at Tech and not at OU.

Well, that makes three of us who share those thoughts about Billy G. He's too much of a con man to suit my taste, not to mention his well-publicized lifestyle that got him in trouble at UK.

BCG is a good defensive coach. He reminds me a lot of Kelvin in that regard. But, as far as I'm concerned, that's where the accolades end. IMO, he would have been a horrible choice as OU's head coach, especially with a second NCAA sanction hanging over our head when we were looking to replace Capel. Joe C. made the right decision in hiring Lon Kruger!

 

[Mr.B!!!]

I know if I were a coach, and my livelihood depended almost entirely on wins, and not on the school looking 'fair' when it comes to scholarships, I would dump players so quick it would make their head spin, if I could get a better player to replace him.

Sure, it would be great if a hard-working player, who is a shining example of a student-athlete could stay at a school for four years, but I wouldn't want to get fired because my roster has 4 of them, either. Even if I was the one who messed up and offered the a scholarship.

That is the tough part and while I disagree with dumping "mistakes" I can see where his job is to win games for his program. I'd just like to see it be fair for both sides of the "transaction". If a player is unhappy with a program or coach, he should be able to leave without repercussions, at least to a program outside of that schools conference.

 

[DenverSooner]

Retzov also played in a time when more scholarships were allowed.

I don't think that is accurate. He played in 1999 and 2000. I think basketball had 13 scholarships then just like it does now. OU only had 13 guys on the roster back then and I am pretty sure one of them (Michael Cano) was a walkon.

 

[DenverSooner]

I know if I were a coach, and my livelihood depended almost entirely on wins, and not on the school looking 'fair' when it comes to scholarships, I would dump players so quick it would make their head spin, if I could get a better player to replace him.

Sure, it would be great if a hard-working player, who is a shining example of a student-athlete could stay at a school for four years, but I wouldn't want to get fired because my roster has 4 of them, either. Even if I was the one who messed up and offered the a scholarship.

The problem is you are making an assumption that it is in your best interest to behave unethically. I like to think that this type of behavior hurts your chances to recruit locally and in the long run will hurt as much if not more than it helps in the short term.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

The problem is you are making an assumption that it is in your best interest to behave unethically. I like to think that this type of behavior hurts your chances to recruit locally and in the long run will hurt as much if not more than it helps in the short term.

I agree, there is something to be said for being able to legitimately go into the home of a parent and tell them that unless your kid screws up royally to make the university look bad, they'll be there for four years and get every opportunity to play and get their degree. If I'm any other coach trying to recruit a player that BCG is also trying to recruit, I would hammer home that he looks out for himself before his kids.

 

[Sawyer]

If you need to push out multiple guys you recruited because they aren't good enough to win games, chances are you're struggling at some of the basics you need to win games in the first place.

 

[boksooner]

If you need to push out multiple guys you recruited because they aren't good enough to win games, chances are you're struggling at some of the basics you need to win games in the first place.

Exactly. If you are doing such a poor job recruiting, what makes you think the the replacement players are going to be any better?

 

[thebigabd]

Exactly. If you are doing such a poor job recruiting, what makes you think the the replacement players are going to be any better?

Well, we will know if Tech wins more than 8 games with this group.

 

[thebigabd]

BTW, Tech just had their 6th player, guard Kevin Wagner, transfer today.

6th transfer. Thats HALF the scholarship players allowed.

 

[garyeb2]

BTW, Tech just had their 6th player, guard Kevin Wagner, transfer today.

6th transfer. Thats HALF the scholarship players allowed.

What is the acceptable number? Sherri shipped 3 this season and Kruger 3 since he got here.

 

[boksooner]

What is the acceptable number? Sherri shipped 3 this season and Kruger 3 since he got here.

It all comes down to the reasoning. Were they pushed out because they weren't good enough (maybe the case with Blair) or did they leave because of family (Newel)? My mind is going blank. Who is the third guy that Kruger "ran off?"

 

[garyeb2]

It all comes down to the reasoning. Were they pushed out because they weren't good enough (maybe the case with Blair) or did they leave because of family (Newel)? My mind is going blank. Who is the third guy that Kruger "ran off?"

Nick Thompson, If you want to count Hardwick, that would be 4. Calvin's family isn't from South Florida.

 

[boksooner]

Nick Thompson, If you want to count Hardwick, that would be 4. Calvin's family isn't from South Florida.

No, but that was what he claimed. I have read nothing that said that Kruger ran off Newel. In fact, Newel leaving is arguably why OU lost some close games and missed post season play. I would guess Kruger encouraged Thompson and Blair to find a new home, as they would not be playing the following year. Hardrick was a different animal. Health was the reason he left.

 

[DenverSooner]

Didn't Billy G sign a bunch of guys before any of these kids inidcated they wanted to transfer? To me that is a key distinction. I don't fault a kid or a coach too much if it simply isn't a good fit and the kid decides to leave but I am not in favor of running off kids that do the right thing simply because they are not the best players.

 

[thebigabd]

Didn't Billy G sign a bunch of guys before any of these kids inidcated they wanted to transfer? To me that is a key distinction. I don't fault a kid or a coach too much if it simply isn't a good fit and the kid decides to leave but I am not in favor of running off kids that do the right thing simply because they are not the best players.

Yes, he signed all of these guys without there technically being a roster spot open.