Osu

Our coaches thought he was a good player and they would have found a role for him.
 
Solomon had zero points and just two rebounds in the aggies' moral victory against Florida today, but he did lead the team in personal fouls.
 
skyvue said:
Solomon had zero points and just two rebounds in the aggies' moral victory against Florida today, but he did lead the team in personal fouls.
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:ez-roll::ez-roll::ez-roll::eddie187_jpg_xs:
 
skyvue said:
Solomon had zero points and just two rebounds in the aggies' moral victory against Florida today, but he did lead the team in personal fouls.
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I'm only mildly shocked that OSU doesn't keep a record of moral victories in football and men's basketball. It'd be the only way they could stay close in either series with OU, for starters. :eddie187_jpg_xs:
 
skyvue said:
Solomon had zero points and just two rebounds in the aggies' moral victory against Florida today, but he did lead the team in personal fouls.
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Haha...Obviously you just look at stats and not watch the game.

Solomon, Olivier, and Allen - their 3 bigs...combined 42mins, 0-2 fg shooting, 0pts, 4 rebs.

That means...just like every year...that Ford does not use his bigs. So to point out what Solomon did is irrelevant. Just look at their best player on that team. 0pts and only shot it twice.

Do you honestly think if Lattin was on that roster that he would have better stats?
 
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bgrch1350 said:
So to point out what Solomon did is irrelevant.
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:ez-roll:

So you've decided for yourself that the only real objective measure in this argument is "irrelevant"? I get that stats don't always tell the whole story, but they're not irrelevant.

Let's take points out of it and look at non "usage" stats. Blocked shots? That's something a big can control regardless of "usage". Lattin had more blocked shots Saturday than Solomon has in 11 games. Same thing with rebounding. Lattin is averaging almost a full rebound per game playing fewer minutes. Turnovers? Lattin is averaging 0.3, Solomon 1.5 (turns out Solomon turns the ball over A LOT). Maybe Ford doesn't use his bigs well on offense, but that shouldn't account for these kinds of discrepancies.

Overall, I think this is a pretty pointless argument, but I think when we look back on this season, it will be pretty clear to most reasonable people that Lattin is the better player.
 
Zimwillett said:
:ez-roll:

So you've decided for yourself that the only real objective measure in this argument is "irrelevant"? I get that stats don't always tell the whole story, but they're not irrelevant.

Turnovers? Lattin is averaging 0.3, Solomon 1.5 (turns out Solomon turns the ball over A LOT for a guy that is not used).
Click to expand...

I fixed it for you. It is ridiculous to say Solomon is better because Ford doesn't utilize his bigs. That would mean Solomon is turning the ball over more often on less touches. If he rarely touches the ball and turns it over 5 times more often than Lattin (and that is what he is doing) that is a huge freaking problem. If he is getting less than 1/3 of the blocks and only 84% of the rebounds in more minutes, that is a huge problem. Surely Ford lets him play defense and rebound when he is on the floor. Finally, nobody should discount the minutes played. Solomon is playing 12.5% more minutes. That is significant. So when he is dominated in the stats it is really hard for me to understand how one could argue he is better than Lattin.

The argument seems to be Solomon is better even though he is careless with the ball, doesn't score as much, doesn't rebound as well, doesn't block shots as well, doesn't pass as well (fewer assists per game), commits more fouls (averages more fouls per game) and doesn't shoot as well from the field (has a lower shooting percentage). Exactly what does he do better? The one thing he is doing better is getting to line more often and converting at a slightly higher percentage.

For whatever reason there is a contingency of OU fans that have to support the other team, especially when it is OSU.

Solomon is a good basketball player. He would not have been recruited by OU or have a scholarship to OSU if he were not but I see no basis to contend he is performing better than Lattin
 
OSU's Big 12 home opener vs TCU..Free admission to anyone with a canned food..

YIKES


From OSU web site
Free Admission To Big 12 Hoops Openers With Canned Good
Men's Basketball - December 21, 2015
 
bgrch1350 said:
Haha...Obviously you just look at stats and not watch the game.

Solomon, Olivier, and Allen - their 3 bigs...combined 42mins, 0-2 fg shooting, 0pts, 4 rebs.

That means...just like every year...that Ford does not use his bigs. So to point out what Solomon did is irrelevant. Just look at their best player on that team. 0pts and only shot it twice.

Do you honestly think if Lattin was on that roster that he would have better stats?
Click to expand...

So, he was awful and, to you, that's proof that he's really great and Travis Ford mismanaged him. And if he was 10-12 with 14 rebounds, that would be proof that he's really great DESPITE the fact that Ford mismanaged him. So there's literally nothing that could happen that would, in your mind, refute your assertion that he's really good, much better than Lattin, and that Ford is mismanaging him. And then you use this "proof" to condescend to others who suggest that you're overrating Solomon.

So everything that happens is proof of your unprovable thesis. It's true because you say it is and, if anyone attempts to disprove it, their evidence is only further proof that you're right and that person is an idiot.

I don't know if Lattin or Solomon is a better player and I couldn't care less. But your stubbornness in your own opinion and your Orwellian insistence that everything that happens is proof of your opinion has gone past the point of absurdity.

You could at least say, "he's really good but had a terrible game. It happens."
 
chuckb said:
So, he was awful and, to you, that's proof that he's really great and Travis Ford mismanaged him. And if he was 10-12 with 14 rebounds, that would be proof that he's really great DESPITE the fact that Ford mismanaged him. So there's literally nothing that could happen that would, in your mind, refute your assertion that he's really good, much better than Lattin, and that Ford is mismanaging him. And then you use this "proof" to condescend to others who suggest that you're overrating Solomon.

So everything that happens is proof of your unprovable thesis. It's true because you say it is and, if anyone attempts to disprove it, their evidence is only further proof that you're right and that person is an idiot.

I don't know if Lattin or Solomon is a better player and I couldn't care less. But your stubbornness in your own opinion and your Orwellian insistence that everything that happens is proof of your opinion has gone past the point of absurdity.

You could at least say, "he's really good but had a terrible game. It happens."
Click to expand...

Olivier is their leading scorer and best player on that team. He played 8 minutes against florida. He only shot it twice. If their best player is only shooting it twice, does Solomon not shooting it at all surprise any of you?

If Lattin was on that team, his stats would have read 0pts just like the rest of them.
 
bgrch1350 said:
Olivier is their leading scorer and best player on that team. He played 8 minutes against florida. He only shot it twice. If their best player is only shooting it twice, does Solomon not shooting it at all surprise any of you?

If Lattin was on that team, his stats would have read 0pts just like the rest of them.
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First, there's just no way to know that one way or another. While it may be more likely than not, it's ultimately pure speculation by anyone what Lattin might do on OSU's squad and vice versa.

Second, no one is arguing with you that Ford is a poor coach. But even accepting your premise as true, it still doesn't account for all of the non-scoring categories in which Lattin is clearly better. Are you really saying that Solomon would be as good as Lattin at blocking shots if he didn't play for Ford? What about rebounding? Turnovers? Etc. Lattin has proven to be a better player in those types of categories now for a season and a half, and that really has nothing to do with how one coach or another "uses" a certain player. It's just that Lattin is better, and I see nothing that indicates those trends will change.

In the end, I'm perfectly happy with Lattin. I think he fits very well with what OU needs and wants to do. He's an athletic energy player who can block shots and create havoc on the glass. That's just not Solomon's strength and I don't think he'd fit well with what Lon and OU need out of their starting 5 this season.
 
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Thank GOD Stevie Clark got run out on a greased rail or this thread would be seven pages deep and locked in a circular argument of "Jordan < Stevie / Jordan > Stevie / Ford is using him wrong because Ford uses everyone wrong" :ez-roll: :ez-roll: :ez-roll:

We're lucky that our team is so good, and our talent so deep, that THIS is the fight we're having on a slow news week.
 
Zimwillett said:
First, there's just no way to know that one way or another. While it may be more likely than not, it's ultimately pure speculation by anyone what Lattin might do on OSU's squad and vice versa.

Second, no one is arguing with you that Ford is a poor coach. But even accepting your premise as true, it still doesn't account for all of the non-scoring categories in which Lattin is clearly better. Are you really saying that Solomon would be as good as Lattin at blocking shots if he didn't play for Ford? What about rebounding? Turnovers? Etc. Lattin has proven to be a better player in those types of categories now for a season and a half, and that really has nothing to do with how one coach or another "uses" a certain player. It's just that Lattin is better, and I see nothing that indicates those trends will change.

In the end, I'm perfectly happy with Lattin. I think he fits very well with what OU needs and wants to do. He's an athletic energy player who can block shots and create havoc on the glass. That's just not Solomon's strength and I don't think he'd fit well with what Lon and OU need out of their starting 5 this season.
Click to expand...

I'm not taking anything away from Lattin. I think he is a good player. I'm glad he is on our team. I've not said anything on here thats negative towards Lattin.

Lattin is a better shot blocker, no doubt. Watching Solomon, you can tell he can score and rebound. He does a really good job at it sometimes. AK took some shots in yesterdays game that when he missed Ford would have yanked him immediately where as Kruger didn't bat an eye at it. If Manyang got yanked everytime he took one of those shots and missed, he would shoot less and less and would lose confidence. And also, if Solomon was on this team, I think both him and Lattin would start next year. Solomon can play the 4. He actually can step out and shoot the 3 like Spangler(not near as good though).

You just can't compare stats with any OSU post player and not expect an OU post player to have better stats. If Cobbins played for Kruger, his stats would have been way better. But I do think, after watching both players that Solomon is a little bit better at this point then Lattin. That could change and obviously not everyone is going to feel that way.
 
I feel after watching Lattin, a bit of Solomon and reading your opinion that you are below average at evaluating players.
 
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