Pokes attendance...4,300 ?????

[SoonerfanTU]

It is truly pathetic how OU fans support OSU basketball by perpetuating myths. More people need to understand the facts as you have been presenting them. OSU is not this great basketball program.

And you diss OU's program by saying this. While I agree the OSU program certainly isn't Duke or NC-like, it is VERY comparable to OU's. Either side could make a case for their team having the better resume, but fact is, it is pretty darn close. So if OSU isn't a great program, OU certainly isn't either.

 

[earlpearl]

And you diss OU's program by saying this. While I agree the OSU program certainly isn't Duke or NC-like, it is VERY comparable to OU's. Either side could make a case for their team having the better resume, but fact is, it is pretty darn close. So if OSU isn't a great program, OU certainly isn't either.

Hoorah!!!!

 

[Tony]

And you diss OU's program by saying this. While I agree the OSU program certainly isn't Duke or NC-like, it is VERY comparable to OU's. Either side could make a case for their team having the better resume, but fact is, it is pretty darn close. So if OSU isn't a great program, OU certainly isn't either.

The OSU basketball program sucks. The OU basketball program is awesome.

Nothing wrong with saying it.

 

[Seymore Cox]

I'd actually prefer OSU be a good program despite me taking joy in their sufferage the last few years. From 96-2005 it would be hard pressed to find a better basketball rivalry than Bedlam. OSU has a respectable program. It is up to Ford to elevate them to what they were from 92-04. Capel is elevating OU's program, not so much from a winning perspective, but from an overall appeal perspective.

 

[MNsooner]

And you diss OU's program by saying this. While I agree the OSU program certainly isn't Duke or NC-like, it is VERY comparable to OU's. Either side could make a case for their team having the better resume, but fact is, it is pretty darn close. So if OSU isn't a great program, OU certainly isn't either.

I think that is the point. That OSU isn't and never really was on the level of UNC or Duke, they are more likely on a similar to OU. Not a top 10 all time program, but a maybe a top 25 program.

 

[MNsooner]

I'd actually prefer OSU be a good program despite me taking joy in their sufferage the last few years. From 96-2005 it would be hard pressed to find a better basketball rivalry than Bedlam. OSU has a respectable program. It is up to Ford to elevate them to what they were from 92-04. Capel is elevating OU's program, not so much from a winning perspective, but from an overall appeal perspective.

I agree, I hope that year in and year out it has Big XII championship implications like it used to.

 

[BigTime]

TU,

You make a very valid point. OU and OSU are very close together when it comes to rating the programs. It kind of depends on what criteria that you are using, but no matter what, they are close.

I just don't think you will find folks claiming that we are a basketball school or that we have the "rowdiest arena in the land" or any of that nonsense. I am just glad that folks are finally starting to see that OSU fans are like most other schools (except for Kansas, Kentucky, Indiana, and a few others) in that they only support a winner in basketball.

I have never called OSU a poor program. In my mind they are a top 20-30 all time program, and when you factor in over 300 D1 schools, that is excellent. I just think that OSU fans often tried to use their "steadfast" fan support in order to seperate them from OU. I think we are all seeing that that is just not the case, as it was for several decades after IBA, and for several decades before Iba. The fans are very good when they are good, but they are just as bad as any other non-basketball school when things are bad. That is why I don't think fan support should carry much weight when you are trying to rank programs.

Its funny because OU has the second highest home winning % of all the Big 12 teams since the LNC was built, so obviously, packing them in doesn't always account for more wins. Only the Phog has a higher %.

I have always been under the belief that one of the main reasons that OSU ever called themselves a "basketball school" was because they were poor at football.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

I think that is the point. That OSU isn't and never really was on the level of UNC or Duke, they are more likely on a similar to OU. Not a top 10 all time program, but a maybe a top 25 program.

I don't disagree with that at all.

I just don't think there are many osu fans that actually claim all those things about osu basketball. Some, yes. A lot? Not that I've seen. The biggest reason people, OU fans included, have thought that there was a gap between OU and OSU is that they didn't realize how good OU had been. Not that they overvalued OSU, IMO.

 

[Tony]

I just don't think you will find folks claiming that we are a basketball school or that we have the "rowdiest arena in the land" or any of that nonsense.

Well, I for one would have no problem with OU fans claiming such things. Hell, I have no problem really with OSU fans claiming such things. Fans are fans and part of the fun of sports is that not everything has to be a sober, serious discussion. Sometimes I wonder if a lot of people actually enjoy being a sports fan. Nothing makes me roll my eyes faster than people who claim to be "realists" or that they "tell it like it is." It must be exhausting.

My issue has always been with the way the media has dealt with the Oklahoma State. It was at it's worst when Eddie Sutton was in charge, of course. I will never forget Craig Humphreys coming on the radio and claiming "I am a homer for Eddie Sutton!" I once asked a couple people in the sports department at the Oklahoman why there was never, ever, any mention of Sutton's troubles at Kentucky and you would have thought I had spit on the grave of Gaylord himself.

They all just liked the Suttons personally, and they swallowed all the nonsense as a result. I would love to see an adversarial media in this market -- and that applies to both the schools -- but that isn't going to happen and I'll settle for one newspaper column debunking the claim that OSU is, historically, a clearly superior program to the one in Norman.

 

[Seymore Cox]

Originally Posted by BigTime

I just don't think you will find folks claiming that we are a basketball school or that we have the "rowdiest arena in the land" or any of that nonsense.

It's ridiculous to claim that especially when 85% of their fans have never been to another college arena. I've always thought that claim was sensationalism just like "worlds greatest offense" that was deemed on the football team. OSU has always had a napoleonic complex that has been projected on their PR promotions. This bogus claim was perpetuated by a guy for cbssportsline ranking them as the "best" home crowd. First off, who even visits cbssportline.com? Secondly, you would have to be familiar with every other stadium in the US. I've heard Wisconsin is one of the toughest places to play. I've heard Maryland is a booger when it gets going. Funny thing is OU generally has one of the best nonconference home court win totals of any team.

 

[DenverSooner]

You keep fighting the good fight there, Denver.

Many OU fans pump OSU basketball more than the local media. I have zero problem with you or any other OSU fan or alum thinkg OSU is a superior basketball program. You should think that, you went to OSU.

However, I have a major problem with OU fans conceding the argument and simply not knowing the facts. OU needs to change the perception of its own fans.

 

[Seymore Cox]

Many OU fans pump OSU basketball more than the local media. I have zero problem with you or any other OSU fan or alum thinkg OSU is a superior basketball program. You should think that, you went to OSU.

However, I have a major problem with OU fans conceding the argument and simply not knowing the facts. OU needs to change the perception of its own fans.

I don't know of any OU fans that think OSU is superior. That's farthest from the truth and completely opposite of the truth. They have had more fan support than use over the last 10-12 years. Now was that just a phase is yet to be determined. I believe the fan support the experienced was solely because of Eddie Sutton.

 

[Tony]

They have had more fan support than use over the last 10-12 years. Now was that just a phase is yet to be determined. I believe the fan support the experienced was solely because of Eddie Sutton.

I do believe that the new GIA had something to do with it as well. Sports programs and organizations have spent the last twenty years telling fans that new stadiums were panaceas that will cure all attendance ills, but that boost is always temporary.

 

[Seymore Cox]

I do believe that the new GIA had something to do with it as well. Sports programs and organizations have spent the last twenty years telling fans that new stadiums were panaceas that will cure all attendance ills, but that boost is always temporary.

The deal with that was they had this huge request for season tickets. Even with the expansion, their was still "reportedly" a 13 year waiting list for season tickets. I don't know about know about waiting list, but I do know they were completely sold out and their weren't single game ticket sales for the OU game I tried to attend and the TAMU game I went to a few years back. When they nosedived, I suspect that list shrunk like a baby boy in a swimming pool.

I don't see them getting that fan support back. I don't see that conservative community getting behind a colorful guy like Ford.....unless he made a final 4 run.

 

[DenverSooner]

I don't know of any OU fans that think OSU is superior. That's farthest from the truth and completely opposite of the truth. They have had more fan support than use over the last 10-12 years. Now was that just a phase is yet to be determined. I believe the fan support the experienced was solely because of Eddie Sutton.

I have been talking about this issue for years and OU fans dismiss the OU program and concede the debate to OSU more than you can imagine. This is a forum of people that like/love OU basketball. We are not the norm, we are not even the norm for OU basketball fans.

Even you stated something above that is probably wrong. OSU has not had more fan support over the last 10-12 years. If you go back 12 years, OU had 3 seasons with a substantially larger arena. Additionally, OSU has been horrible for 4 seasons in a row. 7 of 12 seasons, OSU did not have better fan support. Furthermore, OU was on a role the first few years of GIA expansion. Even if GIA was full, so was the LNC. You are likely convinced of your statement but seriously think about. It is not likely to be correct. Best case scenario, OSU had better fan support for 5 seasons and during those 5 seasons, OU won 3 Big XII Tournament titles and went to the Final Four - the margin simply wasn't enough to swing the other 7 years.

 

[oSuJeff97]

Additionally, OSU has been horrible for 4 seasons in a row.

So making it to the second round of the NCAA tournament = horrible?

Interesting.

7 of 12 seasons, OSU did not have better fan support. Furthermore, OU was on a role the first few years of GIA expansion. Even if GIA was full, so was the LNC.

Hogwash.

From the time that new GIA opened until Sean Sutton's reign of terrror, there was no question that OSU had much better fan support.

While it wasn't 100% full for every game, GIA was generally packed out for almost every game in that time frame. There were very few games in that time frame that had fewer than 10,000 people in the arena, even for the worst games in December. Once in conference play, the arena was always full.

And don't give me the official university attendence figures. For the first several years of new GIA, OSU was reporting "butts in seats" while OU (and almost everyone else) was reporting "tickets sold."

Had OSU been reporting "tickets sold" in those first 3-4 years, every game would be listed as 13,611, because every game was offically sold out. There was a waiting list for season tickets.

Of course, that has changed now, but don't give me any revisionist history about how the crowds at LNC were "the same" as in GIA in those days. LNC was always packed for OSU, Texas, Kansas, maybe one or two other conference games and that was it.

Just anecdotally, there were constantly threads on the OU Insider LNC board in those days lamenting the lack of attendence in LNC. You never saw those kinds of threads on OSU message boards until the past few years.

 

[12th Street Baller]

LOL @ revisionist history coming from a Cowboys fan. I have no excuses for the Sooners piss poor fan support over the years. It is both perplexing and pathetic. But the fact is that oSu now has much less support and the OU program has been as good or better on the court for most of the last century. No matter what the local media, gossip or Cowboy fans will tell you.

 

[skyvue]

You never saw those kinds of threads on OSU message boards until the past few years.

You would have seen plenty of them in the 1970s and '80s (and prior to Iba's arrival in Stillwater), had there been an internet and web boards then.

The fact is, oswho is a two-trick pony when it comes to hoops -- the Iba era (and they weren't great for many of his years there) and Eddie Sutton's tenure. That's it. Before Iba, they sucked. After Iba and before Eddie arrived, they sucked. Since Eddie, they've mostly sucked.

And the attendance at the games reflected their success on the court.

A little blip of sold-out houses -- and a blip is exactly what it was, when viewed in context -- is nice, but it's already a distant memory and growing fainter with each passing season.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

I approve of the direction this thread is headed...OU is a better program overall, not by much, but certainly by more than the local media will ever give it credit for. Amazes me that oSu fans ever ***** about the local media, for the most part they treat all aspects of your program with kid gloves.